Motor Trend's 2013 Shelby GT500 vs. 2012 Camaro ZL1 comparison
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
Internet racers.
Doesn't sitting between magnetics on each corner scramble DNA and cause cancer?
Mach 1 Member
Joined: April 23, 2011
Posts: 1,636
Likes: 1
From: Pacific NW
Originally Posted by cdynaco
Doesn't sitting between magnetics on each corner scramble DNA and cause cancer?
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
So was the magnetic suspension a complete surprise to Ford or is it an unfolding technology with other manufacturers besides GM?
Last edited by cdynaco; Jun 28, 2012 at 02:01 PM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: April 23, 2011
Posts: 1,636
Likes: 1
From: Pacific NW
Originally Posted by cdynaco
lol None needed so far... just Pacific Yew Tree and platinum doin' the trick.
So was the magnetic suspension a complete surprise to Ford or is it an unfolding technology with other manufacturers besides GM?
Thread Starter
Swamp Donkey Aficionado
Joined: November 23, 2006
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 0
Thread Starter
Swamp Donkey Aficionado
Joined: November 23, 2006
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 0
Ultimately it's up to what you want as a driver. For me I prefer a more dynamic driving experience over brute power. It's pretty obvious the GT500 has the power advantage, but it's also less precise than the ZL1 through corners, bumps, etc. I don't see why people are getting upset about it. GM did the ZL1's suspension right and they deserve credit for that.
Ford did what they could do with the S197/IRS and they should also be commended.
The next generation of Mustang will be a better comparison as, suspension wise, Mustang and Camaro will be on more of a level playing field. I'm sure the next GT500 will be far more dynamic than current. And that's a good thing.
ZL1 is keeping Ford honest.
Ford did what they could do with the S197/IRS and they should also be commended.
The next generation of Mustang will be a better comparison as, suspension wise, Mustang and Camaro will be on more of a level playing field. I'm sure the next GT500 will be far more dynamic than current. And that's a good thing.
ZL1 is keeping Ford honest.
Really, to me, the Camaro ZL1 has been winning these head-to-head comparisons based solely on the respective reveiwers' subjective feelings about each car -- which has the better seats (really, the Camaro's seats are better than the GT500's Recaros?), whose shifter is better, which car has the quieter exhaust (I happen to think the Shelby sounds amazing and would be honored to listen to its demonic burble on a daily basis
), etc.I do agree, though, that it is nothing short of amazing what Ford's been able to do with the "less-sophisticated" S197 platform and its SRA. That's why I'm so excited to see what Ford will offer with its next-generation chassis and IRS.
Needs to be more Astony
Joined: October 4, 2004
Posts: 8,610
Likes: 5
From: Volo, IL
As much as on the road is opinion, what is not opinion is the ability for IRS to absorb bumps that a solid axle cannot.
With uneven surfaces of normal roads any bump disrupts the surface area the tires are contacting the road. I had a very scary experience in my GT taking a 270 degree on ramp to the highway. There are a bunch of bumps right at the bottom of the ramp and shuddered and kicked the whole rear of the car out and I merged on sideways. That would never have happened in my Cobra or the ZL1 for that matter.
I would rather have the GT500 but you cant argue with the confidence the IRS gives you and not having to be ready to save yourself if the back end hits any rough bumps.
Also the magnetic(magneto) shocks are a marvel(pun intended) to behold. I wish i could retrofit those on my car.
With uneven surfaces of normal roads any bump disrupts the surface area the tires are contacting the road. I had a very scary experience in my GT taking a 270 degree on ramp to the highway. There are a bunch of bumps right at the bottom of the ramp and shuddered and kicked the whole rear of the car out and I merged on sideways. That would never have happened in my Cobra or the ZL1 for that matter.
I would rather have the GT500 but you cant argue with the confidence the IRS gives you and not having to be ready to save yourself if the back end hits any rough bumps.
Also the magnetic(magneto) shocks are a marvel(pun intended) to behold. I wish i could retrofit those on my car.
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 19,953
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
With uneven surfaces of normal roads any bump disrupts the surface area the tires are contacting the road.
I would rather have the GT500 but you cant argue with the confidence the IRS gives you and not having to be ready to save yourself if the back end hits any rough bumps.
I would rather have the GT500 but you cant argue with the confidence the IRS gives you and not having to be ready to save yourself if the back end hits any rough bumps.
Not only do you have tire pressure absorbing many bumps but also the suspension. Look at F1 - on some rougher courses they loosen the suspension a bit so it will absorb the impact and keep traction (with their IRS). It is no different with the S197 SRA where the tires and suspension absorb the hit as Ford engineers designed. Under acceleration, in a hard turn, bumps and all, the SRA sticks well - providing the driver doesn't pee down his pants and let off at the first sign of uneven road surface.
IRS may beat an SRA by a bit in race, but SRA is hardly a circus ride where the driver is out of control.
Last edited by cdynaco; Jun 29, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
Member
Joined: March 2, 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Mississauga,On
Originally Posted by mustangmaniak2010
Come on guys stop the useless fanboy bull****. This is how the game works. We win some, then the Chevy guys win some. Its always been like that. We all expected this result I think with the Camaro having more efficient cooling, rear suspension geometry and aerodynamics.
At the end of the day the thing that matters the most is to have respect between each other as muscle car fans, and most importantly to appreciate the fact that right now America is building some of the most fun, powerful, affordable and exciting cars at only a fraction the price of what other foreign companies are making. We are living in a real "America **** yeah!" moment for automotive history, so lets enjoy the heck out of it and show love for each other as car guys, muscle car enthusiasts, and Americans!
Cheers
At the end of the day the thing that matters the most is to have respect between each other as muscle car fans, and most importantly to appreciate the fact that right now America is building some of the most fun, powerful, affordable and exciting cars at only a fraction the price of what other foreign companies are making. We are living in a real "America **** yeah!" moment for automotive history, so lets enjoy the heck out of it and show love for each other as car guys, muscle car enthusiasts, and Americans!
Cheers
Bullitt Member
Joined: February 24, 2012
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
The funniest part of all these car mags, is the guy doing the testing, doesn't have $5 for a Starbucks coffee in there pocket.
The true deciding factory will be the buyer...not a broke a$$ guy trying to write an article.
The gt 500 is prettier, faster , better built , and is user friendly.
The true deciding factory will be the buyer...not a broke a$$ guy trying to write an article.
The gt 500 is prettier, faster , better built , and is user friendly.
Thread Starter
Swamp Donkey Aficionado
Joined: November 23, 2006
Posts: 1,863
Likes: 0
In my opinion, there's more to a car than where its final assembly occurs. The Camaro's design was headed by a Korean (Sangyup Lee), working for an American company (General Motors). A significant portion of the Camaro's development was handled by Holden in Australia; and, as I'm sure we're all very well aware, the Camaro ZL1's handling was tuned in Germany at "the 'Ring."
Cobra Member
Joined: July 27, 2004
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: Bakersfield, CA
BOTH are amazing cars. BOTH are great bargins for what they present. BOTH are outstanding AMERICAN MUSCLE / PONY CARS. BOTH have blind a fan base. I would pick the Shelby EVERY-FREAKIN'-TIME. But, I absolutely understand those who go with a more sophisticated handling set up. I'm a huge fan of the cts-v and the camaro is pretty much a different wrapper for the same car.
Currently a Corvette Owner!
Joined: December 16, 2011
Posts: 2,003
Likes: 48
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Absolutely stupid.
Daily driving comparison is basically subjective, it's really just personal opinion. Victory is given to the ZL1.
Drag strip- GT500 roasts the ZL1 and is given a close victory.
Laguna Seca track- GT500 beats the ZL1 on the Hot Lap but not happy with the results they keep lapping the cars until they find fault with the GT500 brakes and then give the victory to the ZL1. When have successive laps ever been done in these comparisons? It's always been the Hot Lap time that determines the winner.
The best analogy I can come up with is Boxer vs. Slugger. Boxing writers usually hate sluggers. These writers of the "sweet science" prefer the skillful boxer. Writers always believe in "the pen is mightier than the sword"; and "brains over brawn". And with the ZL1 vs. the GT500 we have the same thing happening.
It's the crude (live rear axle), brutish (660hp) slugger (GT500) vs. the scientific (magnetic suspension), refined (easy to drive) boxer (ZL1). The car magazine writers WANT the boxer to win and they downplay anything the slugger does. They make subjective, opinion based comparisons and praise the boxer. Then it's fight night (drag strip and test track) and the two fighters stand toe to toe. The slugger pounds the boxer with crude right and left hooks, swinging for the fences, awkward and unrefined. The boxer remains poised and balanced.
The fight ends with the boxer being overwhelmed by the power of the slugger, his only victory coming from showing more style and class. Savage power has overcome science and the writer's world has been turned upside down and they just cannot accept what they have just witnessed. Had the fight been longer, they speculate, surely the slugger would've punched himself out and the boxer would've been victorious. Thus they award the championship to the boxer....it doesn't matter to them that the slugger left the ring wearing the Championship Belt, in their eyes the boxer won.
Daily driving comparison is basically subjective, it's really just personal opinion. Victory is given to the ZL1.
Drag strip- GT500 roasts the ZL1 and is given a close victory.
Laguna Seca track- GT500 beats the ZL1 on the Hot Lap but not happy with the results they keep lapping the cars until they find fault with the GT500 brakes and then give the victory to the ZL1. When have successive laps ever been done in these comparisons? It's always been the Hot Lap time that determines the winner.
The best analogy I can come up with is Boxer vs. Slugger. Boxing writers usually hate sluggers. These writers of the "sweet science" prefer the skillful boxer. Writers always believe in "the pen is mightier than the sword"; and "brains over brawn". And with the ZL1 vs. the GT500 we have the same thing happening.
It's the crude (live rear axle), brutish (660hp) slugger (GT500) vs. the scientific (magnetic suspension), refined (easy to drive) boxer (ZL1). The car magazine writers WANT the boxer to win and they downplay anything the slugger does. They make subjective, opinion based comparisons and praise the boxer. Then it's fight night (drag strip and test track) and the two fighters stand toe to toe. The slugger pounds the boxer with crude right and left hooks, swinging for the fences, awkward and unrefined. The boxer remains poised and balanced.
The fight ends with the boxer being overwhelmed by the power of the slugger, his only victory coming from showing more style and class. Savage power has overcome science and the writer's world has been turned upside down and they just cannot accept what they have just witnessed. Had the fight been longer, they speculate, surely the slugger would've punched himself out and the boxer would've been victorious. Thus they award the championship to the boxer....it doesn't matter to them that the slugger left the ring wearing the Championship Belt, in their eyes the boxer won.
1987 - Hagler vs. Leonard
Cobra Member
Joined: July 27, 2004
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: Bakersfield, CA
Ray won 7 rounds with 1 even on my card. Then again I did have a grand on SRL. MMH should have spent more time south paw in that fight. When he did it completely threw leonard off his game. Marvin also messed up when he took an extra half a million in exchange for signing off on a 24' ring. He should have lobbied for fighting Ray in a phone booth.
For those of you too young to know what a phone booth is. Before everyone had cellular phones the phone company would place a booth basically 2 1/2' x 2 1/2' glass structure on street corners with a land line phone in there. You would then put in coins it varies greatly depending on how long ago. This way you could make a phone call when you were away from your home or office.
Also it gave superman a place to change. NEVER THOUGHT I'D HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS.
For those of you too young to know what a phone booth is. Before everyone had cellular phones the phone company would place a booth basically 2 1/2' x 2 1/2' glass structure on street corners with a land line phone in there. You would then put in coins it varies greatly depending on how long ago. This way you could make a phone call when you were away from your home or office.
Also it gave superman a place to change. NEVER THOUGHT I'D HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: December 20, 2011
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 53
From: CenTex...sort of
For those of you too young to know what a phone booth is. Before everyone had cellular phones the phone company would place a booth basically 2 1/2' x 2 1/2' glass structure on street corners with a land line phone in there. You would then put in coins it varies greatly depending on how long ago. This way you could make a phone call when you were away from your home or office.
Also it gave superman a place to change. NEVER THOUGHT I'D HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS.