The 2013 Shelby has quite a challenge before it!
Cobra Member
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From: North Carolina (currently deployed)
Your worried about times going around the ring? Really? The ZL1 and the GT500s main battle ground is going to be at the drag strip not at the ring I highly doubt that many people will be shipping their cars over to Germany or for those in Europe drive to the ring and race their car there. Ford upped the HP because HP sells cars and its going to help them out in the quarter mile. I am alos sure that Ford tweaked the suspension since they did go to the ring to run some track sessions and if IIRC didn't they leave early or something like that? Fords not stupid they set up a bench mark and they try to meet or achieve it, look at the Boss. They set the target of kicking the M3s *** and supposedly they did it on the first shot and I believe that the Boss did beat the M3 around the track I mean the GT is close to the M3 as is and the added performance enhancements of the Boss with the suspension tweaks only makes it closer. Some cars are going to be faster around other tracks so saying that the ZL1 is faster around the ring may not mean that much, if they could consistently go around the world at all different tracks and post those impressive numbers than that's great no problem but I have a feeling the GT500 is more than capable of handling what the ZL1 has to throw at it.
And the addition of the TracKey could only make it better :P
BOSS Member
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Of course you care about the Camaro. And this thread isn't to bash the GT500, I said Ford has quite a challenge before it, and they do. Just adding HP to the GT500 is not going to be enough to best the ZL1. Why would Ford choose to put the 5.8 into the 2013 and bump HP to around 600 unless they were trying to outdo the ZL1?
Last edited by LagunaBeach; Oct 22, 2011 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Edit
Cobra Member
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From: North Carolina (currently deployed)
When was the ZL1 announced? Do you really think Ford saw the ZL1 and thought "I guess we should up the power to stay on top"? Obviously you have no idea how long development and testing a new engine takes. This has been in the works long before the Boss was even announced. Remember, Ford doesn't follow, they lead. This power upgrade was coming no matter what, it was just coincidence Chevy came out with the ZL1.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 1, 2010
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From: White Plains, NY
It seems kind of odd that Chevy would would release the ZL1 with only 540 HP ( IIRC) when rumors of a 600 HP motor have been flying around for so long. It seems like such a huge gap between the two. I think the hardest thing that FOrd engineers will have is to get all of that power to the ground.
AKA 1 BULLITT------------ Legacy TMS Member
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Of course you care about the Camaro. And this thread isn't to bash the GT500, I said Ford has quite a challenge before it, and they do. Just adding HP to the GT500 is not going to be enough to best the ZL1. Why would Ford choose to put the 5.8 into the 2013 and bump HP to around 600 unless they were trying to outdo the ZL1?
The problem is it will take more than just a boost to HP and I truly hope Ford is looking to win this fight. It's from challenges like this that cars and their performance improve. Without the ZL1 you wouldn't be getting (hopefully) a better GT500. So only the truly ignorant don't care about the ZL1.
The problem is it will take more than just a boost to HP and I truly hope Ford is looking to win this fight. It's from challenges like this that cars and their performance improve. Without the ZL1 you wouldn't be getting (hopefully) a better GT500. So only the truly ignorant don't care about the ZL1.
You need a drink, maybe a triple.
I do not care (ten letters, three spaces).
You care since all you think about and rely on is horse power, projected specs, You Tube, and what the likes of Motor Trend telling you what to like which shows how much you know, otherwise you would have thought twice what thousands of dollars on an idiotic SS package would get you, making such expenditure, time, and effort a flush on a toilet. Had it been as great as you frequently promoted and justified it you will still have it. Then for the icing on the cake you down grade to an inferior powertrain with a list of documented issues. DING DING DING! It sure makes a difference being knowledgable and well informed on the particulars of the ultimate and latest performance Mustang.
Many congrats!
Yes, the truly ignorant need not care. Which reminds me, I still have a pic with a gorgeous face and its signature grin in a Bullitt, the best Mustang ever of its time, just out of a dealer. I wonder who it belongs to?
Bullitt Member
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I'll go ahead and fuel the fires that are soon to ravage this thread after the 2013 GT500 announcement...
So what do people think the new GT500 would do on the ring? Definitly better than 7:41. My guess about 7:36. It certainly couldn't touch GT-R or ZR1 territory, and those seem to be running just under 7:30. The fact that its even in range of SLS AMG's and Porsche 911's is an amazing feat.
So what do people think the new GT500 would do on the ring? Definitly better than 7:41. My guess about 7:36. It certainly couldn't touch GT-R or ZR1 territory, and those seem to be running just under 7:30. The fact that its even in range of SLS AMG's and Porsche 911's is an amazing feat.
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Thread Starter
Cobra R Member
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From: London, ON. Canada
LOL!
No, it looks like this battle is over before it even started!
While we still don't know how well the '13 GT500 will perform it certainly looks to be the clear winner.
I'm really interested to see how this is all going to play out. The '12 ZL1 is going to be a short model run and then the '13 ZL1 will come out in the summer (at least that's my take from reading the Camaro5 forum).
Don't want to read too much into that but perhaps Chevy served up the '12 ZL1 as a bit of bait for Ford and they will counter with the '13 ZL1.
Of course Ford didn't just add a little more HP to the GT500, they added a lot! Chevy is really going to need to add a lot more for the '13 to compete. I pity the poor '12 ZL1 owners, they are gonna get screwed at both ends!
No, it looks like this battle is over before it even started!
While we still don't know how well the '13 GT500 will perform it certainly looks to be the clear winner.
I'm really interested to see how this is all going to play out. The '12 ZL1 is going to be a short model run and then the '13 ZL1 will come out in the summer (at least that's my take from reading the Camaro5 forum).
Don't want to read too much into that but perhaps Chevy served up the '12 ZL1 as a bit of bait for Ford and they will counter with the '13 ZL1.
Of course Ford didn't just add a little more HP to the GT500, they added a lot! Chevy is really going to need to add a lot more for the '13 to compete. I pity the poor '12 ZL1 owners, they are gonna get screwed at both ends!
Bullitt Member
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From: Miami
Even if Chevy throw some more HP at the ZL1 the fact remains its as heavy as a Sedan. Weighing in at a whopping 4200 lbs, (specs says 4120 but unless your putting a kid in the car...) Its still going to be (Ze Large 1 !) on the track. So tossing power is not going to cut it IMO.
Its funny though...ThePill talked about the GT500 and what it was doing in Germany and it was dismissed/banned on Camaro5....lol now it seems he was right about a great many things. If his statements hold true further, he had mention that unofficial times had the GT500 at 7:35 and lower...
Its funny though...ThePill talked about the GT500 and what it was doing in Germany and it was dismissed/banned on Camaro5....lol now it seems he was right about a great many things. If his statements hold true further, he had mention that unofficial times had the GT500 at 7:35 and lower...
Cobra R Member
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I really don't know how GM will respond to this, what are they going to do make a 700hp zl1? i just don't see it happening they would have to use the ZR1's LS9 engine to support that kind of power the LSA isn't up to the task.
Bullitt Member
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From: San Diego, Ca.
Then GM will have to do something to the Halo Corvette. There is no way that they will let a Camaro be top dog over their beloved Corvette.
Member
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From: Roanoke, TX
I was one of those ZL1 fans, until they revealed the weight and (lack of) options. To be honest, the 'Ring time has little to no impact on me, chances are slim to none I will ever bring my car there, but GM's refusal to put a modern nav unit in the car was the final straw. One of the best moves I ever made! My 2012 GT500 kicks butt, and the 2013 is taking it to a whole new level!
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Bullitt Member
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Well not exactly, parts swap the forged pistons and blowers since they are direct replacements for each other and hope that being an assembly line engine that much boost wont let go. But ultimately ya the LS9 will not go into the Camaro and they will not boost the ZL1 to ZR1 levels without upping the ZL1. So lets see modify 2 cars to best one car with both when one of them already will out do the other one (ZR1 vs GT500 sorry don't think that would be close to even). I dunno wel'll just have to see. My gut tells me only a refreshed lighter ZL1 is going to be able to handle the new GT500, *****unless***** Ford does the way of the supersnake and under tires it then it would be close. We shall see.
Yep. They make more money off the vette as well, a 700 HP ZL1 would be interesting though!
Yep. They make more money off the vette as well, a 700 HP ZL1 would be interesting though!
Cobra Member
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From: Minnesota
It takes alot of horsepower and torque to move an additional 300 pounds to the same speed. The ZL1 has more weight and less horespower and torque than the 2013 GT 500. For the ZL1 to be quicker than the 2013 GT500, would be against the law of phsyics.
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"Then GM will have to do something to the Halo Corvette. There is no way that they will let a Camaro be top dog over their beloved Corvette."
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Who knows; G.M. has been know to do stupid things before.
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Who knows; G.M. has been know to do stupid things before.
Cobra Member
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From: Minnesota
Down the road, I would not be surprised to see GM bump the horespower on the Vette and then increase the HP of the ZL1. However, the Ford engineers could probably find ways to still keep the GT500 engine ahead of Chevy in power.