What is wrong with you guys?!?!?!? This is a FORD Mustang forum for crying out loud! You guys are really oversimplifying this. Yeah it would be great if everything they built was perfect and everyone on the planet just had to have one of their cars, but that's far from reality. You have to remember that they didn't get in the boat they're in overnight. And it doesn't just affect Ford. Shoot, it affects just about EVERY manufacturer, automotive or otherwise, in the US. The big three had us by the ***** as a captive market before we were presented with the alternatives from Toyota and Honda. It didn't take long for folks to realize that while it's great to wave the flag and shout "buy American" from the rooftops but if you want a reliable, well built and competently serviced car you probably shouldn't buy an American car. They've made HUGE strides in quality and design over the last decade which is pretty impressive considering the inertia within the industry. Sure they still have issues, and yes their dealer network leaves something to be desired, but one thing at a time. The current rant about TSBs and proactively correcting problems is a bit of a pipe dream. They're in business to make money, period. Of course they're going to cut corners wherever they can. It's a fine line and it's something EVERY business has to do. Sometimes you can get by and other times you get caught. I can't imagine ANY manufacturer openly sharing with the world that they've identified a flaw and would like to fix it on each of the last 500,000 units they've sold over the last couple of years. That would be stupid. You simply identify the problem, develop a solution then wait for folks to complain. I guarantee that of those 500,000 unit potentially affected, they'll only get complaints from 200,000 owners. We should be glad that they actually DO support their products and that they issue TSBs and corrective parts. They could very easily ignore the issues entirely. The moral to this story, as in just about everything else in this world today, is that we really don't have any advocates on our side. It is up to the consumer to learn as much as they possibly can so they can get the service they need. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. We should all be thankful that we have forums such as this to share our experiences and to identify problems as wel experience them. The internet has become an invaluable tool for sure. Please don't think I'm blindly defending Ford with this, I'm simply trying to set emotion aside and add some logical reasoning. Obviously your new Mustang shouldn't fill with water when it rains. And it's a given that dealers need to improve their customer service. We shouldn't generalize that they all suck and all of their products suck because of our limited personal experiences. I for one have dealt with some great dealers over the years as well as some horrible ones. They'll get there in due time. If you're gun shy about build quality or customer service, don't even consider buying a Ford. Go buy a Honda or Toyota and be done with it.

 

WOW! I could not have said it better myself !! My Mustang is the best quality Ford I have ever owned, hands down.

As for the original question, it has been my experience that the factory does not "dump" the problem part because of a minor problem. That would be financially stupid. They run the old parts out until the corrected part hits the supply line. It is cheaper in the long run for manufacturers (yes, even Toy-ota) to have dealers replace parts when customers bring in the car than to toss out all the parts at the factory. As RobK said, you can bet only a fraction of owners will care enough to even bother. Of course, not all cars will develop the problem either. My car is a prime example of this. Out of all the TSBs out there, only two have affected my GT... the gas tank and the fuel pump. Not bad for such a "poor quality" product.

 

This is an interesting site...

www.nhtsa.dot.gov

TSBs on:

2007 Toyota Camry - 11

2007 Honda Civic - 1
2007 Honda Accord - 1
2007 Honda CRV - 2

2007 Ford Mustang - 2

I would recommend looking into TSBs for any car you plan on purchasing. You may be suprised to see some of the numbers. Remember this....many cars and manufacturers don't have quite as many forums built around them, so you don't hear about every single issue or problem.

How many 300hp V8, rear wheel drive, sub-$30k cars are built by:
Toyota - 0
Honda - 0
Ford - 1

 

I'd say that's going a little far. I've had my car in for various issues over the past two and a half years and Ford (in my case, represented by Brown Bros., Coastal, and Orchard) have never failed to address my concerns promptly. When TSBs are involved, I've produced them and had the problem corrected without delay. Even without TSBs, I've had defective items replaced and covered by the factory warranty. The only money I've spent has been on mods and maintenance. In fact, I bought my CAI from Brown Bros, and they also installed my Pro-Kit gratis while performing the strut TSB. I have no regrets what-so-ever with my decision to buy Ford.

 

ASU05GT, I think you missed my point here. No manufacturer gets it right 100% of the time. By the way, a TSB is simply a service bulletin that the manufacturer publishes to assist dealers servicing their cars. It's not specifically limited to defects. It could be something as simple as a reminder that they should be replacing the washer under the oil drain plug when doing oil changes. It's actually an indication that the manufacturer responds to its dealers inquiries or at least identifies areas requiring attention/clarification. I would be leary of a manufacturer that doesn't issue any or has a low number.

BTW - you hit the nail on the head regarding 300HP V8 RWD cars on the market. That's exactly my point! There aren't a whole lot of options (1 to be exact) so you have to take the bad with the good!

The bottom line is the number of TSBs issued has absolutely zero bearing on quality. Now recalls is another story...

 

I think part of the original question was "does Ford fix the problem on the line when they identify the problem and issue a TSB" (paraphrase). Unfortunately, the answer to that is "it depends".

Let's take three TSBs that have affected my personal 2005 GT:

1) Fuel tank not filling up all the way
2) Upper strut bearings clicking
3) Fuel tank level sender PC board getting contaminated with sulfar

For the first two, Ford identified there was a design problem and then redesigned the parts. The new parts went into production ONCE THE STOCK OF ORIGINAL PARTS WERE USED UP and the new part number was called out in the TSB.

My car was made a few weeks after the fuel tank TSB came out and a few weeks before the strut bearing TSB came out. And it had the original tank (which I was hopping I had the improved tank) and the original USB (of course). Eventually, I had problems with both items and I took it to the dealer who looked up the TSBs, ordered the parts and had me bring the car in for installation.

Number three (fuel level sender) is the one that irritates me. There is a TSB on this part. Ford KNOWS there is a problem. But the TSB just says to replaced the sender unit with a new one. Same part number. Same issue. My car does occasionally have this issue (corrected by using Chevron gas exclusively for while), but I see no point in taking it in until they redesign the bloody board and seal the PC board traces from the fuel.

They know what the problem is (sulfar in the fuel building up on the board causing high leakage between the components leading to the DTE error), but they have not redesigned the board to prevent the sulfar from being an issue. Just replace the board...

 

...(+3)...The gov site also gives recall information I believe...

In closing, if anyone has any uncomfortable feelings about laying out their cash for a car, they shouldn't make their decision without being well informed. And yes, when in the Mustang price range, I believe that you will take the bad with the good. I am pleased with my decision to buy one, and I hope others will be satisfied with their decision, too. Regardless of what that might be.

 

More good info. Thanks! This gives slight creedance to the belief of some to wait a couple years in the production run to get some of the bugs worked out. At least some have been addressed between '05 and '07.

 

+1
+2
Well said. I have been 100% happy with my purchase and it is by far better built than my '95 was. I have had no real issues with it in fact I had a Cadillac Deville that gave me more headaches that this or my Expedition with 100+K on it and it only had 67K on it. I think it boils down to this, I feel like I got more than I expected for the money it cost me especially when it cost about the same (with inflation) as my '95 did and I don't think my '95 was half the car this one is. If they had built this thing rock solid with only the best of the best and not taken production cost into account and not cut corners were they could then half of the people who own them now would not be able to afford them and most of us would be complaining that they are over priced. We all want to drive a nice reliable car for our hard earned money but you have to find a happy medium. I had two cars I was seriously considering when I made my purchase, the Mustang and a BMW 5 series. Both were attainable for me in the new market and I realize they are two completely different cars and segments. I chose the Mustang because I have been partial to them my whole life( first car was a '68 coupe I bought when I was 15 and restored) and even though it's a much cheaper car I like it better. Many of you would think I would be crazy at my choice but the feeling I get When I am behind the wheel of a stang is something I cant describe and you either get it or you don't! In the end I didn't buy a BMW and I don't expect my Mustang to be one. Also keep in mind that wile Ford certainly has some major issues right now as well as many other companies allot of the times our negative views of Ford are brought on by a crappy dealer and that gives us a poor impression of the whole company. I can say My dealer(Brandon Ford) has been nothing short of great over the years and it really makes the difference.

 

I guess nothing changes in over forty years, why should I expect my '07 to be any different.

 

It's funny you mention the 5 Series was your alternative. Mine as an '07 Infinity G35 Sport! While it would be a blast with 306 horses and a 6 speed, I don't think it would be near the fun the Mustang is going to be. The upside is that I have a boatload of cash left over for mods!

 

Wow Scott your car is in much worse shape than I thought! I have a feeling the carpet is getting wet because of that big hole in the floor...

 

I am speachless about the floor pan above. I have restored a ton of cars and most are no where near that bad. And those are 40 years old.

I would be sincerely ****ed if that were my car and demanding a new car. There IS NO WAY, I would be happy with a floor pan change on a brand new car.

I really need to check the passenger side footwell on my 06. I do not think I have the problem but this warrents a look to check it for sure.

I guess the difference with me is that having owned more expensive cars like BMW's and porsches, and having gotten the same BS that you guys are complaining about from those dealers on little quirks and problems. I honestly think that every car manufacturer and dealer is pond scum. Regardless of how much you spend.

Any "special" car I have stays far away from the dealer. There are a ton of TSB's issued on every car made, especially during the first year of a new style. They only way they get fixed is by going to the dealer and complaining.

And in truth, before the internet, the only people that had access to the TSB's were the dealers, etc. The dealers are still in the stone age with that respect. On my jeep, I brought it in with a 5 tsb's printed out, wanting them done. I was essentially third degreed asking me where where I got the TSB's from, and why I was given access to them.

Dealers would prefer customers to be stupid. An informed customer is a dealers worst enemy.

 

Ok relax a bit there. That pic is a floor pan of a 67 I think it was..not mine quite yet.
If you google 'mustang plenum leaks' you will get a ton of sites of restorations on old stangs with these problems. I just about died when I read it has been going on for over 40 yrs.

 

Holly crap I didn't want to say anything but I didn't think there was any way that could be an '07 with that much rust already, I don't think it would be that rusty after a couple of months if you parked it in the Dead Sea. Seriously though I do feel for you and I hope you get it resolved to your happiness, the first thing I did after I read your post was to go check mine, we had some heavy rain here the last two days but thankfully it was dry.

 

Yeah, I was joking there guys! I figured Scott could use a chuckle... The cars of yesteryear were held together with toothpicks and bubblegum. They all leaked like sieves. Any GM car from that era will be completely devoid of lower quarters and trunk floors because of the leaky rear windows. My father actually used to fill his quarters with a couple inches of coolant to prevent the inevitable rusting. Believe it or not it actually worked! I think you'd be hard pressed to find a car that didn't spend a bunch of years sitting in a field with pans THAT bad.

 

I think that the way that I have experienced it that Me being the owner that Ford should let me directly by mail or what ever but My experience would be that when you take your vehilce in the auto search your vehicle and if there is a TSB on it they deal with it but have always told me first, so that for me also works but How about the guy that just does not wish to go through the pain steaks bringing car in and wait or come back thing , so they elect to do oil changes & stuff on thier own , How are they to know then Like if it's SERIOUS ! you know.

 

My bad on that one. But yes, cowl leaks are nothing new.

 

I think that's the major thrust of my point. The dealership experience really makes the difference. They're not ALL bad, but most seem pretty ambivalent about the customer. Any factory defects then seem amplified exponentially if the dealer refuses to acknowledge or fix them. I don't care WHO the manufacturer is. But when you've mortgaged the farm just to stay in business for another 24 months, you need to be doing it BETTER than everyone else. Comparisons to Honda and Toyota are worthless in this regard, because they're not staring entropy in the face.

Scott: I was at Cam Clark Ford/Lincoln today discussing parts, and both the service guy and the parts guy were only too anxious to be helpful. They were bending over backwards to answer my questions properly. Really impressed, overall. In fact, while I was there a customer came in who has an '06 V6 vert, and he has been having some problems with the water leaks. He had been to Coastal in Burnaby, too, and said they were totally disinterested in providing him with service. He went to Cam Clark and told me they have treated him right.

I can confirm first hand by the way they dealt with me today, that that seems to indeed be the case. The service guy there new all about the passenger footwell/kick panel leak, and said they've only seen it on the convertibles. The coupes don't seem to have this problem.

If you don't get satisfaction with Coastal - or even if you do - I would recommend having your car serviced (if you keep it) at Cam Clark in the North Shore Automall. Talk to Houtan; he's a car guy, enthusiastic...and knows his stuff.

 

Tell that to these people, or these people.

This is hardly a minor issue, or "zero bearing on quality." Below is a post over on MustangForums from a Ford employee at the AAI plant who allegedly knows all about this and claims a TSB is in the works. Hopefull this helps out people with leaks >>

The TSB has the tech looking in no less than 10 places. The water that is entering the cabin is doing so from the cowl. The cowl captures all the water coming off the windshield. It will pool inside the cowl like a sink if the water is entering faster than it can drain. The problem is that the cowl is full of holes (10 grommets for attaching the cowl and a large hole for the filter). If installed correctly all the grommets and the filter gasket and other seal will hold the accumulated water. But anyone one of those grommets or filter gasket or other seals could leak if not installed correctly and that is why so many people are getting leaks from different places. When a certain grommet is leaking, the water will drip onto a cross-beam that runs from the left to the right side of the dash in an arch. Water follows the arch of the beam to the passenger side A-pillar and leaks down on top of the SJB. Some grommets will leak down the firewall. If it's the gasket for the filter then in leaks into the plenum and out the drain hose.

As you can see they're a few entry points into the cabin.....but they are all related to the cowl. I'm pretty confident that the TSB's scope is large enough to fix all the leaks we've been talking about in this thread.