I think it's a very real possibilty that the present HP wars will come to a screeching halt, much like the early 70's. All it takes is CAFE to put the extra squeeze on the automakers, and it's over faster than it started.Now that everyone seems to be going green (like the Bullitt!!-pun) and are concerned about environmental issues. Sadly, we enthusiasts are the minority. And oil will reach US$100 a barrel. It's just a matter of time, so enjoy the ride once again. I just can't believe I'm getting to see this happen twice. Cool!!
Whammer, I think you had a typo on your Challenger production numbers. They are to stamp out 33,000 (not 3300) in their first year. And you will see a few in Canada. I know of two fellows who have deposits and are assured of delivery in Canada. It just takes a bucket load of cash that's all. But agreed, most will end up in the US.

 

You aren't takin gearing into consideration. Say a 277 lbs of torque, lets use the transmission gear as a 1 ratio and rear end as 4.30 so that 277 lbs of torque is 1191lbs after that.

Now take 320lbs of torque, same thing except a 3.73 gear and you have 1193lbs. so now even though engine is 43 lbs different there is only a 2lbs difference at the end.


*disclaimer, my gearing numbers are hypothetical, just to show what gearing can do for a car, i didn't look what both cars have for gearing but i can guess the lexus is geared more agressivly.

 

I understand what you're saying--it is obvious that Ford is trying to milk this particular cash cow for all its worth. But, I don't think its disdain for the customer at this point, more like desperation. On the plus side the Mustang, RWD V8, is still price-wsie, performance-wise, and style-wise is a fairly unique vehicle. One that suits me. Somehow, I don't see myself trading my Mustang GT for a Lexus anytime soon. :-)

 

wow, i am seriously amazed everytime i read a destructive or constructive arguement online...Ok, maybe i'm at an advantage and i've been trained to argue effectively...sigh

Ok, i know it's hard sometimes to look beyond your current pool of facts and ideas, but there are more forces enacting on this world than specifics.

I have say that a person cannot just focus on one item of interest(price/power/luxury/mileage) because it leaves the person ignorant to the other forces going on in the world. Ford is a business...it sells cars, it goes out of business if it can longer sell cars. **** off 4000 people and still sell your entire allotment of SEs....works for them. Power is important, Price is important for people who can't afford excessive power and a person has to look at the whole picture of "The Family" or even just "Finances". If you're rich you can afford power....if you are not...you go for price to power ratio. Makes sense to me. Of course there are more things going on in this picture than just those two items...but those are the ones on people's minds.

Also competition is more than just Horsepower numbers. Mechanically there is SO MUCH being added and subtracted to the overall delivery of the vehicle's final power output.

Thank you Knight, final drive gears are very very important.

Weight, Driveline Effeciency(including transmission gearing and power sapping), power curves, torque curves, accessory vampirism, Aerodynamics, driver ability, may i add weight again? There are more factors but once again many do not come to mind.

Challenger will be over 2 tons....even with the SRT8 - the power to weight ratio should settle your mind. Anyone know the weight on the Camaro or any of these luxury sports cars for that matter?

Speculation can only lead to bad steam...like i've mentioned before in automotive blogs and other communities...Wait for the real deal to show up. Ford has a history of underrating performance. If they did, great! If not, Oh well. Wait for the real performance numbers to come out when people get to test the real thing.

My main point is that you cannot argue from one standpoint, Its just like people argueing what an author intended to write based on a one line quote from a book rather than reading the context of the narrative.

"I've done things with sheep you would have never imagined" - Given that line, it sounds perverted. If one were to read before that line, it could have been written by a Farm animal groomer who used to trim sheep for competitions.

Just try and think about things in a worldy view or an overall. The more knowledge and facts you have the better a person can fully understand a situation. Everyone thinks they are right and to remind yourself that you are not always right might do some good for everyone.

-DISCLAIMER- No sheep were harmed in the making of this comment.

 

30,000 challengers? Several months ago I was sure I read less than 4000. But I'll stand corrected.
The MSRP should be high 30's, then add ADM. It will be expensive and hard to find.

It will be interesting to read the comments when we see the Bullitt unveiled in a few weeks.

 

Well, maybe I have my numbers wrong. I just can't see them only making 3300. It would be tough to make any profit on that low a number. And of course, production numbers can change given the overall acceptance/rejection of the actual model. I heard the same as you for MSRP.
And the comments will be many I'm sure when the Bullitt is finally unveiled in LA. Can't wait!!

 

http://i.tnpv.us/2007/FRD200709/08_WIP_Mustang_05.mpg
green or pink ? Green ! all the way

 

As you noted the Challenger will be close to 2 tons. Sharing the assembly line with the 300 and the Charger the producton machine will be somewhere between 3900 and 4100 lbs.

I have seen articles suggesting Chevy has been trying diligently to save weight on the Camaro, so the verdict is still out. However, a ballpark figure could be around 3900-lbs. The new Holden Commodore SS, with which shares platform and components with the production Camaro, weighs in at 3902.

 

Any news on the Vanishing Point SE?

 

It Vanished.

 

'Yer a funny guy Moose................................

 

Was able to take these images when this guy stopped... little did he know my camera was ready.

 

All I am saying is that if the new Camero & Challenger raise the bar, Ford needs to do the same to the Mustang.
My fear is that GM & Chrysler are going to come out with some pretty rad cars, and we Mustang loyalist are going to have to wait til 2012 or 2013 to get something that is equal in both performance and styling.

 

GTJohn,

I really think all the performance stuff is going to come to a screeching halt very soon.
Oil prices are going to continue upwards. People are just not going to pay the price to fill the big HP beasts up.
The pressure to produce "green" cars is also going to increase.

On a similar note: When we first got news of the new Bullitt, I too was hoping for a 375-400hp engine.
But I have done a 180 on that thought.
Adding a CAI and X pipe on my 05 has boosted my hp to 320+; and I am very happy with it. My 05 is my daily driver. I now have to run 91 octane; I'm okay with the slight cost increase and it's probably balanced out because (believe it or not) I now have improved fuel efficiency.
But I sure wouldn't want to keep filling up a 400hp monster.

We also have new speeding laws here in Ont. Canada. If you're 50kms. over the speed limit you lose your car and license for 1 week PLUS a $2000 fine. And for certain your insurance rates will double.
Some of you folks might have the money to make a 400hp Bullitt your sunny sunday driver. But I don't. It will be my daily driver. 312+hp is enough for me. If you want more then the aftermarket is your answer.

 

I doubt we see cars like the 300C with large(340hp) Hemi's being produced in 8 or 10 years. I am just praying that we get this GDI V8 in the Mustang GT before its too late.
10 or 20 years from now, the only cars I see having V8's are the Corvette and a SE Mustang. I think we will be seeing GDI 4 Bangers and V6's in all other cars.

 

I like it!

 

are those pics of what we actually think is a real bullitt?

Roger

 

I dont know honestly. Im not taking anything for fact untill someone can give us more detail. Especially since superstang only has one post here.

Superstang, can you tell us where you are located and give us more detail on how you saw that car etc..?

 

If that's it I'm kinda torn. I like it, but I'm thinking it's missing something. I just can't put my finger on it.

 

i dont think that is350 was stock, i test drove one when i was looking for a 4door car and was looking for something different than a BMW. nothing i could do could get it to spin the tires on launch. TC off and everything. now the car is fast and the paddle shifters are nice as well. even bonestock it is close. magazines tested the IS at like a 13.5 in the 1/4 mile