I'll be in Chesterton this Summer visiting a buddy of mine. He is a park ranger at the Dunes. Unfortunately, I will not be driving my Mustang. I am taking the whole family of 5. We'll be sportin' the minivan.

 

The average car salesman is a door ****. They know very little about the product they sell unless they take a very personal interest in the subject.

 

Hey Poldrv...You might not think much of the avg. car salesman. However, I'd like to see you try and make a living selling a product where the general public comes in w/ a copy of what you paid for the car from the internet. They lie about the condition of their trade in. Then, they lie about their credit score, etc. Finally, after 2 hrs of kicking tires & test driving 4 cars, they offer your 2,000.00 under cost. Oh ya, they also want 2K more than their trade-in is worth. (which has black tape over the ABS warning light so you won't see it). They tell you they can get 3.9% @ their credit union too. Only then do you find out their credit score sucks because they are late on all their payments & couldn't buy a car if they wanted to. You've wasted 2 hours of your 12 hr day & earned nothing. Salesman are paid commission based on the PROFIT in a sale over dealer invoice. No sale = no money. He can spend 12hrs @ work & earn ZERO no matter how hard he worked. See if that flys where you work. Then see how your attitude is day after day for 25 years.
My point is, most car sales professionals are truly committed to their customers long after the sale. Yes, we need to make a profit. We provide a valuable service before, during and after the sale as long as you owne your car. Every business makes a profit or they go bust. The car business is the only one I know where every aspect of the business is disected into how much they are making. Oprah makes 300M a year off advertisers like the auto companys, etc & she's a hero. But if a car dealer makes 3K on a 50K car, they are *****s? If car salesman stop selling, then the factory stops building & lets people go.
Make sure you buy from a quality store w/ good professional sales people. There is a difference. So please, don't bunch us all together. I can do the same w/ EVERY profession. Including yours.

 

Funny you mention that, as I have resorted to doing the same where I work as my fellow managers and our sales staff have a hard time remembering which Mustang is which anymore (too many models floating around these days). So, GT500's are the 500 horse supercharged Shelby's, and the Shelby GT's are the "baby Shelbys." When I refer to them that way, my coworkers understand.

You can all laugh all you want about how dumb salespeople are, but keep in mind that someone coming in to buy a Shelby GT, for example, typically has already researched that model to death, been all over the internet forums for the car, and is a mini-expert on all things Shelby. The typical Ford salesman sells 0 (or maybe 1) Shelby Mustangs per year (average store may get 5-10 Shelby GT500's and GT's per year, with 20-50 salesmen per store), so there is very little incentive for him to be an expert in a product that he may not ever even sell. Ask that same salesman about an F-150 (his bread and butter) and he'll quickly recite anything you could want to know about XL, STX, XLT, FX4, Lariat, and King Ranch models. He can probably tell you the difference between 4x4 and AWD, can figure out payload and towing capacities you'll need for a given trailer, etc. He'll know all the current incentives and lease deals on F-150's, and know which ones are priced to move now. The average sales guy may sell a couple dozen of new F-150's per year, so knowing that product is key to making a living, along with a few other hot sellers like Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, and Super Duties. Mustang V6 and GT sell well, too, so most salesman have a decent understanding of those models. But, the Shelby and other specialty models are way too uncommon to register with most salesmen. I believe that's why Ford used to have just 604 dealers who sold SVT's. It used to be very good training for just a select group of dealers who sold these high performance wonders. However, Ford decided to sell SVT (now the GT500's) products through any and all of its nearly 4,000 dealers back in 2006, thus dilluting the quality of training you see at the 3,400 extra "regular" dealers that are now trying to sell high performance Fords. Those of us dealers that were on the SVT program since day one (back in 1992 for the 1993 introduction of SVT) have the people in place (sales and service) who fully understand these vehicles and can talk educatedly with customers about them. Those other "regular" Ford stores who now peddle Shelby cars know nothing and do not typically have anyone there who is an "expert" on the product.

I've had customers tell me how happy they were that I knew so much about Mustangs to help in their decision to buy, especially considering other guys they encountered at other dealers that knew nothing. I thank them, but then quickly tell them something like "thank goodness you didn't ask me about Econoline vans, as you would have really thought I was clueless!" Point being that everyone tends to specialize in something for any number of reasons. It may be a passion, or it may be what they know sells best, or it could be a combination.

 

Right on Brian. Most people who are in the market for a Shelby will most likely know all there is to know.
As an SVT Dealer, can you recommend how I should go about having a cold ari intake installed on my 08 GT500? Should I look for an SVT dealer or have my favorite Muscle car mechanic do it.? I know I should have it tuned afterward as well. Which system & tune do you recommend? That would help a ton. Thanks

 

I hope your minivan is supercharged

 

I think you missed the point. The point is that many of the "committed professionals" don't know crap about the "product". It seems only logical to me that a good salesman would make every effort to familiarize himself with the products with which he/she is making a living selling. I think most of us would acknowledge that working for commissions is tough. I'm also sure that there are many tools coming in trying to pull a fast one on you or making unreasonable demands. I sure as hell wouldn't do it.

 

I have several friends who have installed the JLT CAI for their GT500's and they are more than impressed with the results. I'm told that with a computer reflash (required when you alter air flow over the mass air flow sensor) you can expect a 60-80hp gain. Or, get JLT's CAI/Pulley/Tuner package for a 110-140hp gain over stock! Click on the following link...

http://jlttruecoldair.com/zencart/in...roducts_id=146

Most Ford dealerships (even SVT certified dealers) won't install aftermarket stuff, nor would you want them to as they do not having tuning facilities (i.e. dyno). So I would recommend you try your favorite, local musclecar shop.

However, if you buy JLT's CAI (or anyone else's CAI) with a tuner (Predator, SCT, etc.) that has canned tunes included that account for the CAI, then you can do the install your self with just a few basic handtools. I installed my JLT CAI and did the programming (via a DiabloSport Predator tuner) myself on my 07 GT in about 15 minutes.

On a side note, some Ford dealerships can and will do some aftermarket parts installs. In had our shop install the 4.10 gears and big stall converter in my 07 GT, and they've done several gear swaps for me in the past on other cars I've owned. These are parts that did not require any tuning on their part - just twisting wrenches which is their forte.

 

And you are missing the fact that these "committed professionals" are NOT making a living selling Shelbys. An average Ford dealership may have 30+ salesmen, but only receive a half dozen Shelby's per year. Most of those salesmen will go two or three years and never sell a Shelby at that rate, so why should they invest a ton of time learning about a product that will likely never earn them a dime??? It is much more important to spend 99% of their learning on the 99% of the vehicles that they actually sell and make that living from (i.e. F-150's, Focus's, Fusions, Edges, etc.).

To counter this inequity in training versus sales, our dealership developed a small group of 4 salesmen who handle all Shelby sales, and I am the dealership's "SVT Team Leader" (amongst other responsibilities), which means that I keep them as up to date and trained on SVT/Shelby products as possible so that any customer inquiring about these specialty vehicles gets a knowledgable salesperson to assist them. In those instances where one of my guys gets a customer who needs more info than he has, I am summoned to the showroom to speak with the customer. This eliminates misinformation and guessing about these vehicles, that we know happens at other dealers (that many of you have mentioned here from your own experiences). In our service department, we have a dedicated SVT mechanic, as well, to better service these vehicles. He owned an 03 Terminator Cobra for several years. He modified it, raced it, etc. and he also has a 10 second Fox-Body Mustang, so he has a wealth of personal experience with high performance vehicles on top of nearly 20 years in the business.

If every dealership would put a "champion" in place to handle the sales and service of these vehicles, this "go-to" person could eliminate a lot of the frustration that many of you have had at dealers that don't know jack about high performance.

 

Yes Chrysler is odd. I read they've increased teh initial run of the Challenger from 5,000 units to 10,000 units. All 5,000 were 'sold' very quickly. This sudden increase must tick off the ones who jumped on the first ones thinking they'd have 1 of 5,000

 

I always ask for the Mustang or Shelby guy when I go to a dealership. Ifthey are set up like Brian says, they send me to them. Not all dealerships are set up this way. Several are "eat what you kill" and won't send you on to the next guy. He wants the sale.

My salesman on my GT500 owns a '93 Cobra that is built up. He is a true car guy.

Gab, I bought my car at Mike Raisor Ford in West Lafayette, IN. It is a few hours from you, but, they do have an aftermarket shop and do installs. I don't know if they will do JLT, but, I'm sure they would do FRPP stuff.

 

I feel for car salesmen. It's a tough job that I'm glad I don't have, as the average customer comes in defensive and assuming he'll get screwed if he doesn't watch every move. Of course some have every reason to feel that way. I see where it works both ways, though. I don't even have a problem with salespeople not knowing their products, because, as has been said, the customers do. My only issue is with salsemen who know nothing, but insist that they're experts, even willing to argue with a customer over thier products. Even worse are those who talk down to their customers like they don't know what they're talking about. I was all but called an idiot recently when I suggested that the new Bullitt also came in black. I was also treated as a trouble-maker when I pointed out that the dealer's ADMs were no longer warranted, as evidenced by ebay and Craigslist. Luckily, I may have found a decent guy to work with. It's just too bad you have to search for the good ones.

 

N E W ! ! ! On A & E ! ! !


Attachment 38314 Attachment 38315

DOGS... The Ford Bounty Salesmen

 

Well, unfortunately, it seems the dealers that I have visited have not been set up that way. Obviously, you are seeing things from the sales perspective and I am seeing it from the customer's. When I walk into a dealership looking for a specific vehicle, I think I have a reasonable expectation to be able to speak to someone who has decent knowledge of said car. I understand that Shelby's are not the "bread and butter" of Ford salespeople, but what is a customer like myself to do?

When the 05 S197s were still knew, I walked in to one dealership asking about IUP because I had read about it in the brochure. The sales guy looked at me like I was asking for the secret launch codes to America's nukes. This was not a SE Mustang, just a GT. He knew pretty much nothing about the car. He had no problem trying to get me to pay a 5K markup, though.

Too bad most dealerships aren't set up like yours.

 

Brain, your right about all you said. We only have 4 sales people (we're a family run store that does well with sales), and I am the "Mustang Brand Manager". Heck, I had a customer who lives about 30 minutes away from us, that everywhere he goes for parts for his Pony Package V6, if he has questions on parts, performance add-ons, and such, every shop tells him to "go see the guy at Yocum. He knows his stuff". I was floored that I have a following starting. But like he says above, You only sell a few Shelby's a year per dealer, and most people won't learn them in depth.

Now take trucks. Not just 1/2 tons, but 3/4, chassis cabs, and F650 and F750s. I can build anything up to a 550, but when it comes to trucks higher, I ask the truck/fleet manager for help. He knows trucks like I know all the cars and Mustangs. I love my job, but I am a car guy 1st and for most and a car salesperson second. Just ask yourself. How many salespeople would go to car shows with their customers on their day off (Sundays we are closed as car dealers cannot be opened in PA. Against the law).

I joke with them all the time, about when was the last time your salesperson was hanging with you at a car show, cruise night, Carlisle, or Barrett-Jackson? There is a small group of auto sales professionals in the country who truely love cars and enjoy them. Alot of salespeople hate them and can't wait to get home to get away from them. For me, I can't wait till Saturday night to get my GT out for a cruise night or Sunday for a car show to go to. Its how I unwind. As to service, It will be 11 years come April 30th, and I have been there for all of my customers. Heck, I still remember 80% of them by name. Only between April to Oct 2003 is a bit fuzzy as I was sick and awaiting a liver transplant, so my mind wasn't 100% focused. All in all, I love what I do.

 

There is really no excuse not to know the product you're selling, no matter how hard the job is. Other professions are the same way. If I go onto a lot knowing said info about a fusion, the guy/girl needs to be able to keep up. If the salesguy I'm talking to doesn't know, someone on the lot better know or I'm leaving. I like the way you guys have people set aside for a specific vehicle and I wish it was the same way at most places, but it isn't for the most part. Thanks to you guys that try. It is a huge investment for many people and if they feel that they won't be taken care of, they have a right to leave.

 

Korey, when I mentioned the F650/F750, that is a truck that your lucky to maybe sell one a year in my area. Now, down in Texas, a BIG truck state, its different. But I can do all vehicles. That vehicle is different, as they use Cat, and Cummings engines and Allison Transmissions. Just to let everyone know, If you take all F-Series into consideration, the combinations available are over 1.4 Billion ways to spec out a truck. ITS CRAZY!!!

 

Here's what I suggest. If you walk into a dealership and are "upped" by a salesman who obviously knows little/nothing about whichever vehicle you ask about, explain politely to that person that you want to deal with someone who knows said vehicle better or else you are leaving. If that salesman is dumb enough to try and keep you captive and BS you, then stick to your guns and leave. 1) Go to another dealership, 2) go back to the same dealership hoping to be upped by a different salesman, or 3) go home and call/email the dealership to see who their resident expert is on said vehicle.

Hopefully, though, if the salesman who upped you is smart enough to turn you to a different salesman who knows said vehicle, then you're in good shape. Also, many dealerships are set up so that if a salesman turns a customer to another salesman who ends up selling that customer, then they split (or share) the commission. Splitting a commission is a whole lot better than blowing the customer out of the store and getting no commission, so turning a customer should be a win-win for you and an unknowledable salesman.

 

I have to concur with what Jeff is saying above. I know Mustangs in & out very thoroughly. Heck, I order all of our store's Mustangs, I've owned Mustangs personally since 1982, and frequent the local drag strip and Mustang shows during the summer, so Mustangs are in my blood. Someone comes in asking about an F-450/550 chassis cab, F-650/750, or econoline vans, I send them to our fleet manager who specs these things daily. Someone comes in asking about a new Ford Edge, I send them to one particular guy who sells more Edges than any salesman in our entire region! Mustang Shelby? They are sent to one of my 4 SVT guys.

Of course, I am very lucky to have a sales staff with lots of tenure (and experience/knowledge) with most of our guys having 10-15 years working for us. The newer guys have been with us a minimum of 2-3 years, so we do not have the "green peas" or revolving door hiring/firing policy of many dealerships out there.

 

Wanna see a Ford employee who really likes Mustangs? Here's a pic of me (with my alloy 07 GT) out on a long cruise through the mountain foothills with some of my friends (many of whom own GT500's)...

And, for a real testament of how Mustang crazy I am, notice the Mustang tattoo on my arm (maybe a little extreme for many, but I've loved Mustangs for most of my life, so why not celebrate that fact in ink!) I should point out that the pic of me was taken on a very sunny day and I had been outside all dang day and was sunburned (I'm not normally red like a tomato).