Motor Week Shelby Road Test
10/10/06, 08:51 AM
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Motor Week Shelby Road Test
scroll to the bottom and choose flash video...
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/video/roadtests.shtml
SOMEONE STOLE THE POM POMS ICON AGAIN!!!!!!!!
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/video/roadtests.shtml
SOMEONE STOLE THE POM POMS ICON AGAIN!!!!!!!!
10/10/06, 09:15 AM
#2
AKA 1 BULLITT------------ Legacy TMS Member
Good video. It seems to be the most straight forward review to date without trashing or inflating it.
10/12/06, 08:45 AM
#6
Shelby GT500 Member
Their reviews are definitely not biased at all, which is nice. The thing that agitates is that I don't believe anyone (car mag) that has reviewed the car has really said GREAT things or been really blown away by it's performance. Thing is, whoever here that gets to drive one IS blown away by it. I really think this is attributed to the Ford hating that seems to be pretty commonplace these days.
10/13/06, 05:07 PM
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I think Ford dug their own hole, and are now slowly trying to climb out of it.
The Shelby is an awesome car, especially for the money (minus AMVs, of course), but facts are facts: it's heavy; it ploughs under hard breaking, speaking to it's weight and weight distribution issues; and for all its horsepower, it's still slower than a stock Corvette C6.
I won't even BOTHER getting into the IRS vs. SRA issues, cause we all know where that will lead.
And Ford (of North America, anyway) still has a lot of work to do on interior quality. It's improving, but not as fast as GM has on several new mid to high-end models. Ford is a company that cannot fully relinquish its cost-cutting mentality, and what's sad is that they were cutting costs even back in the glory days when the company was making money hand over fist. This needs to change. Believe it or not, buyers today do look at the details, and little things are important to them, like passenger grab handles, and auto-spring forward front passenger seats, and locking glove boxes, etc, etc - all things the new Mustang lacks and were doubtless omitted to "cut costs."
Now whether those "cut costs" are being passed on to the consumer, or merely helping to ensure outrageous salaries for execs like Alan Mulally, is the real question.
At the end of the day, being competitive boils down to one thing: product, product, product. And if you don't have the product, and your competitors do, your business will falter. Which is where Ford is right now. Hopefully Bold Moves is more than a marketing slogan and we'll really see some improvements. Fusion is a good beginning (though not quite there) and the Edge looks great (though, again, some of the interior details look cheap).
10/14/06, 05:47 AM
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Honestly, I think you have a chip on your shoulder about this. I don't think the magazine editors and the public woke up and got together 30 years ago, rubbed their hands together in glee and collectively decided, "Ya know, let's pick on Ford for the next three decades."
I think Ford dug their own hole, and are now slowly trying to climb out of it.
The Shelby is an awesome car, especially for the money (minus AMVs, of course), but facts are facts: it's heavy; it ploughs under hard breaking, speaking to it's weight and weight distribution issues; and for all its horsepower, it's still slower than a stock Corvette C6.
I won't even BOTHER getting into the IRS vs. SRA issues, cause we all know where that will lead.
And Ford (of North America, anyway) still has a lot of work to do on interior quality. It's improving, but not as fast as GM has on several new mid to high-end models. Ford is a company that cannot fully relinquish its cost-cutting mentality, and what's sad is that they were cutting costs even back in the glory days when the company was making money hand over fist. This needs to change. Believe it or not, buyers today do look at the details, and little things are important to them, like passenger grab handles, and auto-spring forward front passenger seats, and locking glove boxes, etc, etc - all things the new Mustang lacks and were doubtless omitted to "cut costs."
Now whether those "cut costs" are being passed on to the consumer, or merely helping to ensure outrageous salaries for execs like Alan Mulally, is the real question.
At the end of the day, being competitive boils down to one thing: product, product, product. And if you don't have the product, and your competitors do, your business will falter. Which is where Ford is right now. Hopefully Bold Moves is more than a marketing slogan and we'll really see some improvements. Fusion is a good beginning (though not quite there) and the Edge looks great (though, again, some of the interior details look cheap).
I think Ford dug their own hole, and are now slowly trying to climb out of it.
The Shelby is an awesome car, especially for the money (minus AMVs, of course), but facts are facts: it's heavy; it ploughs under hard breaking, speaking to it's weight and weight distribution issues; and for all its horsepower, it's still slower than a stock Corvette C6.
I won't even BOTHER getting into the IRS vs. SRA issues, cause we all know where that will lead.
And Ford (of North America, anyway) still has a lot of work to do on interior quality. It's improving, but not as fast as GM has on several new mid to high-end models. Ford is a company that cannot fully relinquish its cost-cutting mentality, and what's sad is that they were cutting costs even back in the glory days when the company was making money hand over fist. This needs to change. Believe it or not, buyers today do look at the details, and little things are important to them, like passenger grab handles, and auto-spring forward front passenger seats, and locking glove boxes, etc, etc - all things the new Mustang lacks and were doubtless omitted to "cut costs."
Now whether those "cut costs" are being passed on to the consumer, or merely helping to ensure outrageous salaries for execs like Alan Mulally, is the real question.
At the end of the day, being competitive boils down to one thing: product, product, product. And if you don't have the product, and your competitors do, your business will falter. Which is where Ford is right now. Hopefully Bold Moves is more than a marketing slogan and we'll really see some improvements. Fusion is a good beginning (though not quite there) and the Edge looks great (though, again, some of the interior details look cheap).
What color is yours? Have you driven one? You know, the people who buy their ink by the barrell and their paper by the boxcar load have to write about something. The fact is, many of the automotive magazines and consumer magazines are owned by Japanese companies.
Everyone has their political axe to grind.
10/14/06, 11:36 AM
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I don't see how politics play into this at all. Every article written about the GT500 since it became available has come to the same conclusions about it's performance. While for the most part they are impressive, the numbers speak for themselves. You don't need to own one or drive one to see that. Are you kidding me? The Japanese are behind all these different reputable magazines having very similar reviews. Sounds like another conspiracy theory to me. Political axe to grind my azz!
10/14/06, 07:54 PM
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I don't see how politics play into this at all. Every article written about the GT500 since it became available has come to the same conclusions about it's performance. While for the most part they are impressive, the numbers speak for themselves. You don't need to own one or drive one to see that. Are you kidding me? The Japanese are behind all these different reputable magazines having very similar reviews. Sounds like another conspiracy theory to me. Political axe to grind my azz!
Speaking of politics: It's sort of like blaming the Democrats for Mark Foley's homosexual/pedophiliac tendencies and the accompanying cover up.
10/17/06, 10:17 AM
#11
Don't sweat it. Some people are SO loyal to Ford/domestic brands that they will cook up anything to dispute/deflect/redirect the truth.
Speaking of politics: It's sort of like blaming the Democrats for Mark Foley's homosexual/pedophiliac tendencies and the accompanying cover up.
Speaking of politics: It's sort of like blaming the Democrats for Mark Foley's homosexual/pedophiliac tendencies and the accompanying cover up.
As far as i am concerned, i would rather see the American Muscle with fair performance for a real working class price than something out of reach in price.
My Heritage is from a Mechanic's and Engineer's Family and we all owned American. I will not deny that. I will also stand by my own opinion that i hope i will always drive American.
10/17/06, 04:34 PM
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Yes, we each choose what Maker vehicle we have to drive. Ford does have a ways to go with regards to the interior quality thing. But make the MSRP closer to 90k and the interior could be like theirs.
As far as i am concerned, i would rather see the American Muscle with fair performance for a real working class price than something out of reach in price.
My Heritage is from a Mechanic's and Engineer's Family and we all owned American. I will not deny that. I will also stand by my own opinion that i hope i will always drive American.
As far as i am concerned, i would rather see the American Muscle with fair performance for a real working class price than something out of reach in price.
My Heritage is from a Mechanic's and Engineer's Family and we all owned American. I will not deny that. I will also stand by my own opinion that i hope i will always drive American.
- Is a Ford that is built in Mexico an American car? How 'bout a Ford designed and engineered in Germany...or Australia? Are they more American than a Toyota designed and built in the US by American laborers?
- What about all the Fords and GMs built in Canada? Are they "American made"?
- When you buy a Chrysler, are you buying an "American" vehicle, or a German one?
- What about the sourcing of global parts used in your American-made vehicle?
Also, why would ANY consumer buy an inferior product with their hard earned dollars, just because it's "made in America." Now I'm not saying American vehicles are inferior to imports (as of 2006, some are and some aren't), but through the '80s and most of the '90s they most definitely were - as reflected by the deep sh*t Ford and GM now find themselves in.
And if you're TRULY concerned about "buying American," (and frankly, you probably should be), then the United States needs to untie its hands when it comes to the unfair trade practices it tolerates from other nations; deal with the one-sided NAFTA agreements that benefit the poorer nations that flog cheap labor; force China to float its currency; stop outsourcing middle class jobs; and reign in corporate America. The American middle class is shrinking, while the country turns into a "class" society of rich and poor. What that means is the end of the U.S. as it was originally intended.
I'll tell you this: If you think those "reasonable" prices you're paying for the Mustang are because the cost-cutting meaures have been passed along to you, forget about it. Those cut costs are passed along as profits to the shareholders and executives, the latter who still pull in outrageous salaries. Ford could certainly build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money, and silence the naysayers once and for all. Why DOES an F-150 get heated side mirrors, but Ford's premier sport coupe, the Mustang, can't manage it?
Other manufacturers manage it.
10/17/06, 04:50 PM
#13
Well, first you have to have a clear definition of what it means to "drive American."
And if you're TRULY concerned about "buying American," (and frankly, you probably should be), then the United States needs to untie its hands when it comes to the unfair trade practices it tolerates from other nations; deal with the one-sided NAFTA agreements that benefit the poorer nations that flog cheap labor; force China to float its currency; stop outsourcing middle class jobs; and reign in corporate America. The American middle class is shrinking, while the country turns into a "class" society of rich and poor. What that means is the end of the U.S. as it was originally intended.
I'll tell you this: If you think those "reasonable" prices you're paying for the Mustang are because the cost-cutting meaures have been passed along to you, forget about it. Those cut costs are passed along as profits to the shareholders and executives, the latter who still pull in outrageous salaries. Ford could certainly build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money, and silence the naysayers once and for all.
Other manufacturers manage it.
And if you're TRULY concerned about "buying American," (and frankly, you probably should be), then the United States needs to untie its hands when it comes to the unfair trade practices it tolerates from other nations; deal with the one-sided NAFTA agreements that benefit the poorer nations that flog cheap labor; force China to float its currency; stop outsourcing middle class jobs; and reign in corporate America. The American middle class is shrinking, while the country turns into a "class" society of rich and poor. What that means is the end of the U.S. as it was originally intended.
I'll tell you this: If you think those "reasonable" prices you're paying for the Mustang are because the cost-cutting meaures have been passed along to you, forget about it. Those cut costs are passed along as profits to the shareholders and executives, the latter who still pull in outrageous salaries. Ford could certainly build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money, and silence the naysayers once and for all.
Other manufacturers manage it.
I will agree, the Politics and AutoMaker Profits are out of hand. I will do what i can control on my level and not pay Patronage to the the things i do not support.
I agree with "Ford being able to build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money ..." I look forward to that day. Then, the Competition will heat up and Ford will get somewhere against them. They also need to get their beancounters in check first.
10/17/06, 07:57 PM
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It is my Choice to buy a Vehicle Made in Flat Rock Michigan. Wheather or not it is the same quality or better priced than others. I will not intentionally support Foreign Markets, nor do i ever wish to drive those cars carrying these Labels in the least. Each car i have ever owned was either built in Canada or the US. Saying so on the Door Jams from the Factories. Other Products i buy get the same consideration when possible. I will purchase the similar American, or at least North American Product, where possible.
I will agree, the Politics and AutoMaker Profits are out of hand. I will do what i can control on my level and not pay Patronage to the the things i do not support.
I agree with "Ford being able to build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money ..." I look forward to that day. Then, the Competition will heat up and Ford will get somewhere against them. They also need to get their beancounters in check first.
I will agree, the Politics and AutoMaker Profits are out of hand. I will do what i can control on my level and not pay Patronage to the the things i do not support.
I agree with "Ford being able to build a car with better fit and finish and features for only a tiny bit more money ..." I look forward to that day. Then, the Competition will heat up and Ford will get somewhere against them. They also need to get their beancounters in check first.
Nevertheless, you'd probably be surprised at how much of your property is NOT made in America. Do a little experiment for me: Go around your home and tell me how many of your household items say "Made in China" somewhere on them.
Now tell me this isn't a serious problem.
Our governments in the U.S. and Canada should be ashamed. The "best government corporate money can buy" are selling out the middle class in their quest for cheap labor and ever higher profits for their shareholders. Accountability is all but gone.
10/17/06, 08:31 PM
#15
Legacy TMS Member
I agree with you on this one. My employer began off-shoring most of the jobs in my division. I was one of the lucky that was able to jump over to a division that can't off-shore and I've flourished in this new job. However, I routinely deal with people in Brazil that do my previous job and no doubt do it for less pay.
10/18/06, 06:44 AM
#16
I admire your North American patriotism and agree with much of it; I wish there were more of it in the halls of your Congress and in Corporate America.
Nevertheless, you'd probably be surprised at how much of your property is NOT made in America. Do a little experiment for me: Go around your home and tell me how many of your household items say "Made in China" somewhere on them.
Now tell me this isn't a serious problem.
Our governments in the U.S. and Canada should be ashamed. The "best government corporate money can buy" are selling out the middle class in their quest for cheap labor and ever higher profits for their shareholders. Accountability is all but gone.
Nevertheless, you'd probably be surprised at how much of your property is NOT made in America. Do a little experiment for me: Go around your home and tell me how many of your household items say "Made in China" somewhere on them.
Now tell me this isn't a serious problem.
Our governments in the U.S. and Canada should be ashamed. The "best government corporate money can buy" are selling out the middle class in their quest for cheap labor and ever higher profits for their shareholders. Accountability is all but gone.
Not a surprise to me all the "made in China" stuff around in the common home materials. [That] is a problem as well. I have always had a grievance towards those who push their products here and never or rarely push them in that way in their own Country. Consider, if they depend upon their own kind to support the Products, then their Market would dissappear. Henceforth, i will not buy their products at will.
Yes, Canadian and US Leaders ought to be ashamed for seling the Nations out to the "cheap" labor. It is one thing to have a cheap product and another to have a strong Nation. Personally, i do not mind paying a dollar or two extra for the garment or 20 cents more for the Produce when i go to the store. Especially, if i know Canadian or American Workers are being paid. A lot of the garments i own, actually, are produced in Canada of American material. These prectises, i have had since childhood and have been raised to honor both Countries as Brothern.
10/18/06, 06:49 AM
#17
I agree with you on this one. My employer began off-shoring most of the jobs in my division. I was one of the lucky that was able to jump over to a division that can't off-shore and I've flourished in this new job. However, I routinely deal with people in Brazil that do my previous job and no doubt do it for less pay.
10/18/06, 09:54 AM
#18
Shelby GT500 Member
Honestly, I think you have a chip on your shoulder about this. I don't think the magazine editors and the public woke up and got together 30 years ago, rubbed their hands together in glee and collectively decided, "Ya know, let's pick on Ford for the next three decades."
I think Ford dug their own hole, and are now slowly trying to climb out of it.
The Shelby is an awesome car, especially for the money (minus AMVs, of course), but facts are facts: it's heavy; it ploughs under hard breaking, speaking to it's weight and weight distribution issues; and for all its horsepower, it's still slower than a stock Corvette C6.
I won't even BOTHER getting into the IRS vs. SRA issues, cause we all know where that will lead.
And Ford (of North America, anyway) still has a lot of work to do on interior quality. It's improving, but not as fast as GM has on several new mid to high-end models. Ford is a company that cannot fully relinquish its cost-cutting mentality, and what's sad is that they were cutting costs even back in the glory days when the company was making money hand over fist. This needs to change. Believe it or not, buyers today do look at the details, and little things are important to them, like passenger grab handles, and auto-spring forward front passenger seats, and locking glove boxes, etc, etc - all things the new Mustang lacks and were doubtless omitted to "cut costs."
Now whether those "cut costs" are being passed on to the consumer, or merely helping to ensure outrageous salaries for execs like Alan Mulally, is the real question.
At the end of the day, being competitive boils down to one thing: product, product, product. And if you don't have the product, and your competitors do, your business will falter. Which is where Ford is right now. Hopefully Bold Moves is more than a marketing slogan and we'll really see some improvements. Fusion is a good beginning (though not quite there) and the Edge looks great (though, again, some of the interior details look cheap).
I think Ford dug their own hole, and are now slowly trying to climb out of it.
The Shelby is an awesome car, especially for the money (minus AMVs, of course), but facts are facts: it's heavy; it ploughs under hard breaking, speaking to it's weight and weight distribution issues; and for all its horsepower, it's still slower than a stock Corvette C6.
I won't even BOTHER getting into the IRS vs. SRA issues, cause we all know where that will lead.
And Ford (of North America, anyway) still has a lot of work to do on interior quality. It's improving, but not as fast as GM has on several new mid to high-end models. Ford is a company that cannot fully relinquish its cost-cutting mentality, and what's sad is that they were cutting costs even back in the glory days when the company was making money hand over fist. This needs to change. Believe it or not, buyers today do look at the details, and little things are important to them, like passenger grab handles, and auto-spring forward front passenger seats, and locking glove boxes, etc, etc - all things the new Mustang lacks and were doubtless omitted to "cut costs."
Now whether those "cut costs" are being passed on to the consumer, or merely helping to ensure outrageous salaries for execs like Alan Mulally, is the real question.
At the end of the day, being competitive boils down to one thing: product, product, product. And if you don't have the product, and your competitors do, your business will falter. Which is where Ford is right now. Hopefully Bold Moves is more than a marketing slogan and we'll really see some improvements. Fusion is a good beginning (though not quite there) and the Edge looks great (though, again, some of the interior details look cheap).
Regarding the magazines, you absolutely have to agree that by far and large they are biased toward German and Japanese vehicles.
I have questioned many people on this subject. When the discussion happens regarding cars and the naysayers say something like "I WOULD NEVER BUY A FORD" I ask why. You'd be floored at how many people just have no reason why, they just know they wouldn't. I attribute it to the whole Firestone debacle as well as magazines (especially Consumer Reports) stating negative stuff about Ford. Often I will follow the question (once they say they have no reason) "have you ever owned a Ford??" and more often than not they say no. So, in conclusion, I submit that a very large percentage of people who are non-Ford buyers have neither owned one or have any real reasons why they wouldn't.
10/18/06, 10:01 PM
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We do need more Patriotism in Congress and Business. It is the lack thereof that has gotten us the losses we have suffered in recent decades.
Not a surprise to me all the "made in China" stuff around in the common home materials. [That] is a problem as well. I have always had a grievance towards those who push their products here and never or rarely push them in that way in their own Country. Consider, if they depend upon their own kind to support the Products, then their Market would dissappear. Henceforth, i will not buy their products at will.
Yes, Canadian and US Leaders ought to be ashamed for seling the Nations out to the "cheap" labor. It is one thing to have a cheap product and another to have a strong Nation. Personally, i do not mind paying a dollar or two extra for the garment or 20 cents more for the Produce when i go to the store. Especially, if i know Canadian or American Workers are being paid. A lot of the garments i own, actually, are produced in Canada of American material. These prectises, i have had since childhood and have been raised to honor both Countries as Brothern.
Not a surprise to me all the "made in China" stuff around in the common home materials. [That] is a problem as well. I have always had a grievance towards those who push their products here and never or rarely push them in that way in their own Country. Consider, if they depend upon their own kind to support the Products, then their Market would dissappear. Henceforth, i will not buy their products at will.
Yes, Canadian and US Leaders ought to be ashamed for seling the Nations out to the "cheap" labor. It is one thing to have a cheap product and another to have a strong Nation. Personally, i do not mind paying a dollar or two extra for the garment or 20 cents more for the Produce when i go to the store. Especially, if i know Canadian or American Workers are being paid. A lot of the garments i own, actually, are produced in Canada of American material. These prectises, i have had since childhood and have been raised to honor both Countries as Brothern.
Same here, one look around my Engineering Business Office here in the US and 60 % are from South of the Border. Worse, they purport to be most knowledgeable and full of authority when in most cases, they are less experianced and educated. Experianced, i mean, in action and not just in years. To add more to this, they complain often about ..." well in my Country". N/O intended, i know there are a lot of Legitimate Ones as well, but to those whom protray this type of negativity, may i suggest One's Return to their place of favour.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
All part of "the best government money can buy."
10/18/06, 10:05 PM
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I do not necessarily agree. If your marketing is good, people can be made to change their minds very often. It just so happens that Toyota for example does have an impressive array of fuel efficient (boring) cars available. Their reliabilty is not what it once was as we all know. Toyota themselves has announced that their time to market on new products will be increased to address some of the recent issues they've run into. I believe this situation is similar to the Dell vrs HP scenario recently experienced in the computer industry. Dell realized some great success immediately by marketing "as good" products for less money. People now realize that that lower price comes back to bite in ways such as highly priced options, poor service etc etc. I agree that Ford has been caught flat-footed with their hands in the SUV cookie jar but I argue at this point in time regarding "better" products.
Regarding the magazines, you absolutely have to agree that by far and large they are biased toward German and Japanese vehicles.
I have questioned many people on this subject. When the discussion happens regarding cars and the naysayers say something like "I WOULD NEVER BUY A FORD" I ask why. You'd be floored at how many people just have no reason why, they just know they wouldn't. I attribute it to the whole Firestone debacle as well as magazines (especially Consumer Reports) stating negative stuff about Ford. Often I will follow the question (once they say they have no reason) "have you ever owned a Ford??" and more often than not they say no. So, in conclusion, I submit that a very large percentage of people who are non-Ford buyers have neither owned one or have any real reasons why they wouldn't.
Regarding the magazines, you absolutely have to agree that by far and large they are biased toward German and Japanese vehicles.
I have questioned many people on this subject. When the discussion happens regarding cars and the naysayers say something like "I WOULD NEVER BUY A FORD" I ask why. You'd be floored at how many people just have no reason why, they just know they wouldn't. I attribute it to the whole Firestone debacle as well as magazines (especially Consumer Reports) stating negative stuff about Ford. Often I will follow the question (once they say they have no reason) "have you ever owned a Ford??" and more often than not they say no. So, in conclusion, I submit that a very large percentage of people who are non-Ford buyers have neither owned one or have any real reasons why they wouldn't.
Personally, I think the Edge is going to be a SMASH hit. Ford just needs to put the same excitement, effort and workmanship into its entire lineup...and then those perceptions WILL gradually change.
Oh, and do something about the nasty dealership experience and uninformed staff.