<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tony Alonso @ March 8, 2006, 12:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Enthusiasts like us have not had a big impact on Ford's sales because if we did, more people would be buying their products. It's easy to make critical remarks about changes like this, but it is apparent that these are cost cutting moves for survival.

Performance enthusiasts alone will not turn the tide of perception. More desirable products for the appropriate customer groups will. Ford Division is fortunate to have a reputation at least built on the F series trucks and Mustang. Now it needs more.

I am sad that the current SVT arrangment is changing. However, so long as we get hotter Mustangs over the next several years, even without the SVT branding and marketing, that becomes the bottom line for us. If Ford is more successful in North America as a result of the savings generated by this, then we will have other performance products in the future.

My armchair quarterback observation is that the V6 and GT Mustangs have been received so well and embraced by the aftermarket that it becomes increasingly harder to justify at this time the previous business model of having an SVT-branded Mustang, a special edition Mustang, and then GT and V6 Mustangs.
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Quite correct. Ford needs to get its mainstream products right first. The new Edge CUV looks like a great example of a stellar Ford mainstream product. If they can do all their vehicles this well, they'll be out of the woods sooner rather than later.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StangFreak @ March 8, 2006, 8:22 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
In addition to that they make it so that their dealers will only get 2 - 3 GT500's which will make it available to only those stupid enough to pay the markups or to those that can afford it. The rest of us average joe's who can't afford to pay 10g's over MSRP can only dream of buying a GT500. Nice, make a killer Mustang and then don't produce enough of them so that the people who want them can buy one!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
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Yeah, this could be a problem. But it may also be "disinformation" designed to make us all drool and more anxious to part with our hard earned cash. If not, then Ford really is f*&#ing over their enthusiast base, a great many of whom will not be able to get (or afford) a GT500 and will consequently be left out in the cold...possibly to go to the competition.

New Shelby GT500 site went up recently at Ford.ca. Not really a GT500 ONLY site, but a site that showcases the Canadian autoshows and what Ford will have on display. The Shelby will be there, and they have a mini-site devoted to it which you can check out here. (WATCH THE VIDEO IN THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND CORNER - THEY SAY ONLY A LIMITED NUMBER ARE COMING TO CANADA. I just love how they SELL you on the car in that video, then basically tell you that you probably won't be able to get one. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img] )

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StangFreak @ March 8, 2006, 11:22 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Exactly!!! In this months MotorTrend it is also stated that there will be no additional SE versions of the Mustang. No Mach 1 or Bullitt, the only two SE's that are going to be released are the GT500 and the Boss. After that you can expect nothing but sticker kit specials. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
Way to go Ford!!! Making your enthusiast customer base mad will surely help to increase sales [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img]
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Given that the Mustang was supposed to be updated for '09 (now slipped to '10) this makes sense (Boss for '08?). We've run out of model years before the '09 update. There was only 1 more model year, '08 so that means only 1 more SE with the present Mustang.

But with the updated Mustang slipping to '10, Ford will need an additional SE for the '09 model year to keep sales going on the current Mustang while anticipation builds for the updated '10 model.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V10 @ March 8, 2006, 8:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>

SVT also gave us the 03-04 Mach 1 which was cobbled together from old SVT parts.
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It was really Team Mustang that gave us the Mach 1. It is true the engine architecture and front brakes were based on the '99/'01 Cobra. The business case and the further unique customizations resulted from what Art Hyde, then chief Mustang engineer, advocated for and got money to do. It really was not cobbled together, as the engine modifications alone (cams, intake), along with shaker scoop induction system, required some significant engineering time to get them to production and certified.

If a Mustang Cobra did not exist, perhaps higher-performing Mustangs beyond the GT would not either. For that contribution, I am glad SVT did what it did, especially bringing a supercharged Cobra to market.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rampant @ March 9, 2006, 2:31 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think this is just another indication the passion is gone from Ford. And that may slowly bring down the rest of the company as well. If they try to compete with the competition in building appliance cars, they will loose. Period. [/b][/quote]

If the passion was gone, we would not be seeing a Mustang. The passion needs to be spread to the entire car line now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rampant @ March 9, 2006, 2:31 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Let's not overlook how the SVT cars soldother Fords as well. People would come in to look, test drive, and if they couldn't afford it, at least they could get a lower Mustang, or something else.[/b][/quote]

SVT cars probably sold more Mustangs as opposed to more Tauruses.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rampant @ March 9, 2006, 2:31 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Now, what is going to bring a performance-minded person into a Ford dealership? A GT-500? Doubt it now that everyone things dealer markup will keep it far from their reach for a couple years. And if that doesn't fit their needs what are they going to buy off the lot?[/b][/quote]

Another Mustang...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rampant @ March 9, 2006, 2:31 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Especially with what DCX is doing with SRT. Bringing the Challenger into the equation just helps with the coupe market. Not only by Challenger sales, but also Charger and 300C sales as well. Come in for the Chally, get convinced by the wife/salesman you need four doors -- still have the best of both worlds. Ford just can't compete with this. What are they going to upsell to? A 500? A crown vic? Not likely.
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It is my opinion that SRT is the equivalent of what SVT was in its heyday. However, the infusion of cash from being absorbed by Daimler is what most likely provided the funding for its expansion beyond the Viper and the Neon. Ford's current financial situation obviously does not allow for the operation of SVT in the way that it had been previously.

The Challenger is competition that will improve the Mustang line. The 300/Magnum/Charger is obviously now the type of competition that Ford cannot match, independent of the SRT versions (which are pretty expensive). I hope that Ford's financial condition improves so that they can.

I really don't believe Ford wants to lose passion. I believe they understand they need to infuse across all of their models in a way that all customer groups, not just enthusiasts, will buy more of their vehicles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tony Alonso @ March 9, 2006, 7:46 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
It was really Team Mustang that gave us the Mach 1. It is true the engine architecture and front brakes were based on the '99/'01 Cobra. The business case and the further unique customizations resulted from what Art Hyde, then chief Mustang engineer, advocated for and got money to do. It really was not cobbled together, as the engine modifications alone (cams, intake), along with shaker scoop induction system, required some significant engineering time to get them to production and certified.

If a Mustang Cobra did not exist, perhaps higher-performing Mustangs beyond the GT would not either. For that contribution, I am glad SVT did what it did, especially bringing a supercharged Cobra to market.
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Yes I know that the Mach was not a SVT product. The point I was making was, as you said, much of the hardware that turned a Mustang into a Mach came out of the SVT parts bin. Without those SVT parts sitting on the shelf the Mach 1 would have been nothing more than a GT with different decals on the outside and different trim on the inside.

 

Brad seems pretty adament about all of this being false. i would take his word for it...I dont see what he or anyone else (besides GM of DC) has to gain by lying to us.

 

In my opinion, SVT died when John Coletti left. He was the heart and soul of the program, plain and simple. Yes, we have the Shelby GT500, but the passion that John Coletti brought to the program will never return.

 

I called SVT today. They are being mainstreamed. In other words, the engineers, Designers, etc. are no longer going to be exclusive to SVT. They had to cut cost. That was one way to do it.

I asked specifically if they are still going to support the customer/car like SVT did. He said emphatically "YES"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(codeman94 @ March 9, 2006, 6:37 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Brad seems pretty adament about all of this being false. i would take his word for it...I dont see what he or anyone else (besides GM of DC) has to gain by lying to us.
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Brad's credibility and integrity are not being second guessed, but I do belief the source he is relying on is either not being completely up front with him or has faulty information which he might very well deem as factual and has passed it on to Brad.

I belief Brad has good intentions at all times and would prefer to keep silent about an issue rather than take us for a ride. I don't challange Brad that frequently but if I do it is because I have facts or thoughts which I truly belief to be right.

Regardless, this whole SVT matter is a big disappointment to most of us, is sad and it shows mainly in the enthusiasm department.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(codeman94 @ March 9, 2006, 3:37 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Brad seems pretty adament about all of this being false. i would take his word for it...I dont see what he or anyone else (besides GM of DC) has to gain by lying to us.
[/b][/quote]
Or the situation may have simply changed just that quickly.

Things are moving pretty fast as Ford and GM restructure...they must, or they will die.

 

Yeah, I agree Brad is being as truthful as he can . . . but making strong statements, such as, SVT is fine . . . not going anywhere, maybe that was wishful thinking . . . or maybe he needs better insider information.

 

I surmise the remaining core of former SVT engineers that are still employed and will be focused on performance enhancements on future Mustangs or other vehicles is what now defines "fine". Obviously, the marketing structure, dealer program, and SVT badging is not fine since they all will be gone.

 

At least performance levels of the different power plants have been achieved and can be easily integrated in other models. I don't think SVT would have needed to experiment with other engines to increase performance as the levels reached are more than sufficient.

The 4.6 and 5.4 have proven to be formidable power plants.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(02mustangGT @ March 9, 2006, 8:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
In my opinion, SVT died when John Coletti left. He was the heart and soul of the program, plain and simple. Yes, we have the Shelby GT500, but the passion that John Coletti brought to the program will never return.
[/b][/quote]


I agree.

To add insult to injury, Coletti was forced out of SVT. He chose to retire rather than suffer the insult of being demoted. It amazes me how big corporations are able to force older workers out the door and get away with it without any repercusions in site of anti age bias laws.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1 BULLITT @ March 9, 2006, 8:56 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Brad's credibility and integrity are not being second guessed, but I do belief the source he is relying on is either not being completely up front with him or has faulty information which he might very well deem as factual and has passed it on to Brad.

[/b][/quote]

I also belive that Brad was being straight with us.

Unfortunately the person who told Brad that SVT was not going away either did not know what was happening, sort of knew what was happening but was in denial or could not tell Brad the truth at that time.

 

Some of you guys need to get a grip. Sure it sucks that vehicles will no longer have the SVT badging but so what? Has SVT honestly really did a whole lot for ford as far as sales go. If it did, then ford would be in a much better financial situation. All they are doing is getting rid of them name, not all performance based products.

If ford can get in good shape financially then maybe we will see SVT return or possibly come back as something else. I mean there were performance vehicles before SVT right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Klay @ March 11, 2006, 7:15 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
... Has SVT honestly really did a whole lot for ford as far as sales go...

... I mean there were performance vehicles before SVT right?
[/b][/quote]
Yes they did. The term coat tails applies. As for performance vehicles, if the criteria was a subpar 200 hp, yes they were, which would make today's Mustang V6 the top dog at that time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Klay @ March 11, 2006, 7:15 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Some of you guys need to get a grip. Sure it sucks that vehicles will no longer have the SVT badging but so what? Has SVT honestly really did a whole lot for ford as far as sales go. If it did, then ford would be in a much better financial situation. All they are doing is getting rid of them name, not all performance based products.

If ford can get in good shape financially then maybe we will see SVT return or possibly come back as something else. I mean there were performance vehicles before SVT right?
[/b][/quote]
Do you know Mustang history?

SVT set itself apart and set a standard for the industry. SRT, BMW's M division, AMG, NISMO. Those all are patterned after SVT. A bunch of power junkies with 10W-30 pumping through their veins snuck off to a dark corner of Ford and developed some of the hottest cars of recent memory. Afforablitity, Exclusivity and Value were the goals. They met that and surpassed it. Even the Ford GT was SVT spawned.

With that said, I do think Ford will carry on with hi-po vehicles. They just can't afford to pay the exclusive department anymore.

 

First, the lightning, then the Adrenalin, then the whole SVT. I was hoping they would make a supercharged version of the Fusion. But i guess not.

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#FF0000">Smooth Move Ford</span></span> [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] Whats next the Mustang!!!!!!!!! I think im gonna [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img]

 

Adding one thing even if it's not about SVT. In my opinion, I think Saleen is cleaning up after Ford messes. Remember in 1989, the Mustang's 25th anniversary, when there were no 25th anniversary cars. Well one year later, Saleen produces many green Mustangs as the "official" 25th anniv. edition. FF to 2005-2006. We all know about the Lightning's cancelation [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img] . Well in my 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords magazine. There was an article about the new Saleen S331 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] . An F-150 filled with many known Saleen goods. Get what I am trying to say. Maybe Ford's sooner or later is going to have to stop relying on Steve Saleen to clean up after them, but instead do everything right and stop being such a liar to the press, which will believe anything. You're only hurting yourself and your profits.