How much over MSRP are you willing to pay?
3/1/06, 10:15 PM
#21
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crazyhorse @ March 1, 2006, 3:17 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
SVT says 9-14K per year, at least 2 years. They will be plentiful in 6-12 months. Don't be a sucker and pay over unless you just can't wait it out. AMV is for suckers.
[/b][/quote]
Thank you for you kind words. Did it ever dawn on you some of us may not have two years to wait. I can see it will be a VERY long time before you will own one off a used car lot. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img]
SVT says 9-14K per year, at least 2 years. They will be plentiful in 6-12 months. Don't be a sucker and pay over unless you just can't wait it out. AMV is for suckers.
[/b][/quote]
Thank you for you kind words. Did it ever dawn on you some of us may not have two years to wait. I can see it will be a VERY long time before you will own one off a used car lot. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img]
3/1/06, 10:32 PM
#22
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Kevin a lot of the postings you read in this and other forums are speculation and just plane BS and the posters know it. When a subject is hot here they come like a swarm of bees. I have learned in my short time here to just take the square root of whats said and you will be closer to the facts. There are some good straight answers here and you just need to ferret them out. I love this informative site.
3/2/06, 05:47 AM
#23
Team Mustang Source
I'm a little confused by your posts Mongoose. Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.
If not, like I said call SVT, they will confirm production numbers (which is speculation, even on their part). As far as availability, all of the previous hot cars have had this natural history. AMV for the first few months, followed by MSRP, followed by deals. It won't take anywhere near 2 years to get one. I am getting mine for MSRP and ordering it as soon as the banks open.
IF you must have it first and are willing to pay AMV, have at it. The only reason I am posting "don't pay AMV" is to try to save some of the TMS members from spending money they don't need to spend.
If not, like I said call SVT, they will confirm production numbers (which is speculation, even on their part). As far as availability, all of the previous hot cars have had this natural history. AMV for the first few months, followed by MSRP, followed by deals. It won't take anywhere near 2 years to get one. I am getting mine for MSRP and ordering it as soon as the banks open.
IF you must have it first and are willing to pay AMV, have at it. The only reason I am posting "don't pay AMV" is to try to save some of the TMS members from spending money they don't need to spend.
3/2/06, 08:06 AM
#24
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
I too am not sure what Mongoose/Bill meant. Kevin makes the most sense of everyone. Its a proven trend, regardless of if the GT500 will be better then the Mach 1 or not, regardless of if we are talking about Mustangs or not.
AMV will paid in the first 3-6-8 months of production. MSRP *WILL* be paid be afterwards (and perhaps lower, but I'm not counting on that).
Then the ones that were first to get theirs will then lament the fact they paid over MSRP and gripe about that fact to all of us.
The same has happened with Mach's, Cobra's, S197 Mustangs (GT's and V6), Audi TT's, Boxters -- even high production vehicles like the Chrysler 300, Crossfire, etc.
Its a fact of like that dealers take advantage of, because people will continue to think they won't get one otherwise -- or, like Bill -- think they can't wait.
I for one can wait the year, won't have to wait 2, and won't have to buy used. (It should be noted, I happen to live in an area of the country that will have higher allocation).
AMV will paid in the first 3-6-8 months of production. MSRP *WILL* be paid be afterwards (and perhaps lower, but I'm not counting on that).
Then the ones that were first to get theirs will then lament the fact they paid over MSRP and gripe about that fact to all of us.
The same has happened with Mach's, Cobra's, S197 Mustangs (GT's and V6), Audi TT's, Boxters -- even high production vehicles like the Chrysler 300, Crossfire, etc.
Its a fact of like that dealers take advantage of, because people will continue to think they won't get one otherwise -- or, like Bill -- think they can't wait.
I for one can wait the year, won't have to wait 2, and won't have to buy used. (It should be noted, I happen to live in an area of the country that will have higher allocation).
3/2/06, 08:15 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crazyhorse @ March 2, 2006, 6:50 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm a little confused by your posts Mongoose. Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.
If not, like I said call SVT, they will confirm production numbers (which is speculation, even on their part). As far as availability, all of the previous hot cars have had this natural history. AMV for the first few months, followed by MSRP, followed by deals. It won't take anywhere near 2 years to get one. I am getting mine for MSRP and ordering it as soon as the banks open.
IF you must have it first and are willing to pay AMV, have at it. The only reason I am posting "don't pay AMV" is to try to save some of the TMS members from spending money they don't need to spend.
[/b][/quote]
This response is respectfully submitted to crazyhorse and JeffreyDJ.
I think the production numbers are the key and Ford is playing games on letting everyone in on the real numbers. crazyhorse, it is very easy for you to say "don't pay AMV" as it is "for suckers". This is because you are fortunate enough (beyond fortunate, darn lucky) to be in the group which is only paying MSRP (I am jealous and wish I were in your shoes [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] ). From what I gather, this MSRP paying group can probably be counted on one hand [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] The vast majority of us do not have the connections or the availability of an honest dealer which will take MSRP. This leaves the people who really want this car, and can not get it at MSRP, in a very hard position.
For example take me (be nice [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] I just have the bug and am trying every angle I can to get a Shelby close to MSRP). I am #1 on a list and am guaranteed a Shelby IF I agree to pay the AMV. I am probably in the minority because I think this car is worth $50,000. Why? It is the first Mustang in 39 years with the name Shelby on it. The next closest car with about 500 hp is the vet which is going for 75 - 85,000 and will depreciate like all of the rest of the modern vets. If I do pay the AMV, I anticipate that my car will have a relatively low VIN during the first model year. I am not as confident as you are that the Shelby will fall into the pattern of the other SE models which become readily available at, or below, MSRP. I also do not think this car will depreciate very much over the next few years and will eventualy (10+ years down the road) appreciate.
Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent. I have the utmost respect for all of the members here as the information that is passed on is invaluable. But I also think that our members should be careful when using terms such as "suckers" and, as Jeffrey DS put it, "wasting money and being a bit stupid". This car has stirred up quite a bit of emotion from all of us, and I think that categorizing those folks who are not fortunate enough to be in a position to pay MSRP is not appropriate. At the same time, I also appreciate you folks trying to save other members money! Darn it! Why can't the USA follow Canada and cap the prices dealers charge to MSRP [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
Have a great day [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif[/img]
P.S. And to all those Mach 1 owners, no disrepect meant when I said that car is not in the same league as the Shelby. You have an awesome car! I personally just feel the upcoming Shelby is in a class of it's own.
I'm a little confused by your posts Mongoose. Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.
If not, like I said call SVT, they will confirm production numbers (which is speculation, even on their part). As far as availability, all of the previous hot cars have had this natural history. AMV for the first few months, followed by MSRP, followed by deals. It won't take anywhere near 2 years to get one. I am getting mine for MSRP and ordering it as soon as the banks open.
IF you must have it first and are willing to pay AMV, have at it. The only reason I am posting "don't pay AMV" is to try to save some of the TMS members from spending money they don't need to spend.
[/b][/quote]
This response is respectfully submitted to crazyhorse and JeffreyDJ.
I think the production numbers are the key and Ford is playing games on letting everyone in on the real numbers. crazyhorse, it is very easy for you to say "don't pay AMV" as it is "for suckers". This is because you are fortunate enough (beyond fortunate, darn lucky) to be in the group which is only paying MSRP (I am jealous and wish I were in your shoes [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] ). From what I gather, this MSRP paying group can probably be counted on one hand [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] The vast majority of us do not have the connections or the availability of an honest dealer which will take MSRP. This leaves the people who really want this car, and can not get it at MSRP, in a very hard position.
For example take me (be nice [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] I just have the bug and am trying every angle I can to get a Shelby close to MSRP). I am #1 on a list and am guaranteed a Shelby IF I agree to pay the AMV. I am probably in the minority because I think this car is worth $50,000. Why? It is the first Mustang in 39 years with the name Shelby on it. The next closest car with about 500 hp is the vet which is going for 75 - 85,000 and will depreciate like all of the rest of the modern vets. If I do pay the AMV, I anticipate that my car will have a relatively low VIN during the first model year. I am not as confident as you are that the Shelby will fall into the pattern of the other SE models which become readily available at, or below, MSRP. I also do not think this car will depreciate very much over the next few years and will eventualy (10+ years down the road) appreciate.
Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent. I have the utmost respect for all of the members here as the information that is passed on is invaluable. But I also think that our members should be careful when using terms such as "suckers" and, as Jeffrey DS put it, "wasting money and being a bit stupid". This car has stirred up quite a bit of emotion from all of us, and I think that categorizing those folks who are not fortunate enough to be in a position to pay MSRP is not appropriate. At the same time, I also appreciate you folks trying to save other members money! Darn it! Why can't the USA follow Canada and cap the prices dealers charge to MSRP [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
Have a great day [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif[/img]
P.S. And to all those Mach 1 owners, no disrepect meant when I said that car is not in the same league as the Shelby. You have an awesome car! I personally just feel the upcoming Shelby is in a class of it's own.
3/2/06, 08:28 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ March 1, 2006, 5:02 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Ok, who's the crazy one that will pay over $15,000 more than MSRP. Show your face... I bet it was a dealer just trying to increase the so called over-MSRP value.
[/b][/quote]
I bet it is either a dealer or someone who knew we would have fun trying to figure out who would pay that AMV! I am considering paying an AMV, but WOW, not that much [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]
Ok, who's the crazy one that will pay over $15,000 more than MSRP. Show your face... I bet it was a dealer just trying to increase the so called over-MSRP value.
[/b][/quote]
I bet it is either a dealer or someone who knew we would have fun trying to figure out who would pay that AMV! I am considering paying an AMV, but WOW, not that much [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]
3/2/06, 10:30 AM
#27
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
First, I respect your opinion, even if I think the opinion is a bit flawed. I would take someone else opinion as a personal attack. However, i think you'll be in the minority in arguing to pay over MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
Also, you should remember, this ISN'T a Shelby vehicle in the same spirit of the previous. This is an SVT vehicle through and through, with the Shelby name on the back.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The vast majority of us do not have the connections or the availability of an honest dealer which will take MSRP. This leaves the people who really want this car, and can not get it at MSRP, in a very hard position.
[/b][/quote]
First, why can't you get it at MSRP? Secondly, you just admitted a dealer has to be a bit dishonest to charge more then MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
You too can get a car at MSRP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I am not as confident as you are that the Shelby will fall into the pattern of the other SE models which become readily available at, or below, MSRP. I also do not think this car will depreciate very much over the next few years and will eventualy (10+ years down the road) appreciate.
[/b][/quote]
Don't forget, its not just Mustangs. Its a lot of different makes and models of cars that this has happened with. Do you think there is a market for even 14K Ford Shelbys at $5-10K above MSRP? I'm not sure how long you've been around Mustangs, but this has happened consistently throughout the history of the Mustang, and last happened with the 05 Mustang GT's and V6's. If you don't learn from history you are destined for failure (or wasting your money as it may be).
Also, *FORD* doesn't make money when they are sold above MSRP -- your dealer does. Ford will only make money if they sell ENOUGH of them. With the problems Ford is having, they'll make as many as they can sell, and they'll be able to sell plenty at MSRP. 5-10K above? probably not. Ford isn't playing games with the production numbrs, they really just don't know yet. I think we've all seen the minimum number of 7K, but if they can find a market forproduction of 9-12K a year, they'll darn sure make them (just like they did the Mach 1). They need the money.
Also, the car can and will depreciate considerably just as all cars do, regardless of make or model. In fact, but paying over MSRP you are HELPING to depreciate your car much more quickly. (Depreciation is off MSRP, not what you paid). As soon as you drive off the lot, the depreciation won't be so bad (even considering the AMV). But, six months, two years, 4 years down the road you'll be disappointed.
Go price a Porsche Carrera Turbo (or even a base Carrea or carerra 4) that is a few years old, even they drop quiet a bit -- and they make far fewer and its an arguably more respected performance name.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
But I also think that our members should be careful when using terms such as "suckers" and, as Jeffrey DS put it, "wasting money and being a bit stupid". This car has stirred up quite a bit of emotion from all of us, and I think that categorizing those folks who are not fortunate enough to be in a position to pay MSRP is not appropriate.
[/b][/quote]
Why is it not appropriate? Perhaps I don't understand -- Are you being forced to pay AMV? No? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
You, and everyone else, has the ability to NOT pay the AMV if you choose not too. You're choosing to pay it, and so will about 10-20% of the other people. It's completely appropriate to point out it's foolish, when one can wait and NOT pay it. It has nothing to do with being "fortunate enough" -- thats a term for someone that can't afford the car (or a car) at all. You are choosing to pay it, your only be "forced" to pay it, because you can't wait.
The market for a 39K car is far greater then a 50K car. For 50K you've put yourself in a whole segment that is made up of BMW's, Porsche, Vettes, and a few other performace vehicles (yes even previously owned).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
P.S. And to all those Mach 1 owners, no disrepect meant when I said that car is not in the same league as the Shelby. You have an awesome car! I personally just feel the upcoming Shelby is in a class of it's own.
[/b][/quote]
I don't think anyone is comparing quality or performance when comparing the two. However you can compare it as an iconic nameplate. There are many people (even on this board) who would PREFER a car called the Mach 1 as opposed to a car with the name Shelby slapped on it.
The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL.
People paid 5-10K over to get a Audi TT. People paid 5-10K over to get a 350Z. People paid AMV for the new GTO -- then it quit selling. The list is endless.
Ford NEEDS to sell these cars. They'll make a tidy profit off each one. They won't make that profit if AMV's rule and they can't produce the numbers they need to.
I'm no trying to be rude, or call you stupid (even if the act itself is foolish). However, it is silly to jump on a bandwagon that costs 5-10K more when you can get to the same destination just by waiting several months.
If in August 2007 I was wrong, well you can publicly humilate me by calling me on it. If I'm right, the only thing that will happen is I'll have one at MSRP.
However, when all is said and done, thats why you'll be driving a GT500 months (or even a year) before me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
I apologize if I previously (or even now) offended you. I'm just trying to point out that even if *ONLY* 7K cars are made each year, AMV is only necessary if you and others agree to it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
Also, you should remember, this ISN'T a Shelby vehicle in the same spirit of the previous. This is an SVT vehicle through and through, with the Shelby name on the back.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The vast majority of us do not have the connections or the availability of an honest dealer which will take MSRP. This leaves the people who really want this car, and can not get it at MSRP, in a very hard position.
[/b][/quote]
First, why can't you get it at MSRP? Secondly, you just admitted a dealer has to be a bit dishonest to charge more then MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
You too can get a car at MSRP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I am not as confident as you are that the Shelby will fall into the pattern of the other SE models which become readily available at, or below, MSRP. I also do not think this car will depreciate very much over the next few years and will eventualy (10+ years down the road) appreciate.
[/b][/quote]
Don't forget, its not just Mustangs. Its a lot of different makes and models of cars that this has happened with. Do you think there is a market for even 14K Ford Shelbys at $5-10K above MSRP? I'm not sure how long you've been around Mustangs, but this has happened consistently throughout the history of the Mustang, and last happened with the 05 Mustang GT's and V6's. If you don't learn from history you are destined for failure (or wasting your money as it may be).
Also, *FORD* doesn't make money when they are sold above MSRP -- your dealer does. Ford will only make money if they sell ENOUGH of them. With the problems Ford is having, they'll make as many as they can sell, and they'll be able to sell plenty at MSRP. 5-10K above? probably not. Ford isn't playing games with the production numbrs, they really just don't know yet. I think we've all seen the minimum number of 7K, but if they can find a market forproduction of 9-12K a year, they'll darn sure make them (just like they did the Mach 1). They need the money.
Also, the car can and will depreciate considerably just as all cars do, regardless of make or model. In fact, but paying over MSRP you are HELPING to depreciate your car much more quickly. (Depreciation is off MSRP, not what you paid). As soon as you drive off the lot, the depreciation won't be so bad (even considering the AMV). But, six months, two years, 4 years down the road you'll be disappointed.
Go price a Porsche Carrera Turbo (or even a base Carrea or carerra 4) that is a few years old, even they drop quiet a bit -- and they make far fewer and its an arguably more respected performance name.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
But I also think that our members should be careful when using terms such as "suckers" and, as Jeffrey DS put it, "wasting money and being a bit stupid". This car has stirred up quite a bit of emotion from all of us, and I think that categorizing those folks who are not fortunate enough to be in a position to pay MSRP is not appropriate.
[/b][/quote]
Why is it not appropriate? Perhaps I don't understand -- Are you being forced to pay AMV? No? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
You, and everyone else, has the ability to NOT pay the AMV if you choose not too. You're choosing to pay it, and so will about 10-20% of the other people. It's completely appropriate to point out it's foolish, when one can wait and NOT pay it. It has nothing to do with being "fortunate enough" -- thats a term for someone that can't afford the car (or a car) at all. You are choosing to pay it, your only be "forced" to pay it, because you can't wait.
The market for a 39K car is far greater then a 50K car. For 50K you've put yourself in a whole segment that is made up of BMW's, Porsche, Vettes, and a few other performace vehicles (yes even previously owned).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05stangster @ March 2, 2006, 9:18 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
P.S. And to all those Mach 1 owners, no disrepect meant when I said that car is not in the same league as the Shelby. You have an awesome car! I personally just feel the upcoming Shelby is in a class of it's own.
[/b][/quote]
I don't think anyone is comparing quality or performance when comparing the two. However you can compare it as an iconic nameplate. There are many people (even on this board) who would PREFER a car called the Mach 1 as opposed to a car with the name Shelby slapped on it.
The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL.
People paid 5-10K over to get a Audi TT. People paid 5-10K over to get a 350Z. People paid AMV for the new GTO -- then it quit selling. The list is endless.
Ford NEEDS to sell these cars. They'll make a tidy profit off each one. They won't make that profit if AMV's rule and they can't produce the numbers they need to.
I'm no trying to be rude, or call you stupid (even if the act itself is foolish). However, it is silly to jump on a bandwagon that costs 5-10K more when you can get to the same destination just by waiting several months.
If in August 2007 I was wrong, well you can publicly humilate me by calling me on it. If I'm right, the only thing that will happen is I'll have one at MSRP.
However, when all is said and done, thats why you'll be driving a GT500 months (or even a year) before me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
I apologize if I previously (or even now) offended you. I'm just trying to point out that even if *ONLY* 7K cars are made each year, AMV is only necessary if you and others agree to it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
3/2/06, 10:53 AM
#28
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"First, why can't you get it at MSRP? Secondly, you just admitted a dealer has to be a bit dishonest to charge more then MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]"
"First, why can't you get it at MSRP? Secondly, you just admitted a dealer has to be a bit dishonest to charge more then MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]"
I can't get it at MSRP b/c not one dealer I have spoken to will even consider it. I started looking in February of last year. Unfortunately, I havn't found an honest dealer yet.
"Do you think there is a market for even 14K Ford Shelbys at $5-10K above MSRP? I'm not sure how long you've been around Mustangs ..."
If they do indeed commit to only make around 14K over a 2 year run, then I do think $5-10K above MSRP will be paid. My first Mustang was a 1969 Mach 1 with a 302 Boss. Sold her in 1984 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]
"You, and everyone else, has the ability to NOT pay the AMV if you choose not too. You're choosing to pay it, and so will about 10-20% of the other people..."
If 10-20% of the other people agree to pay the AMV, then there will be close to 0 left to be sold at MSRP.
"The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL."
I have not decided for sure if I will pay the AMV - I'm on the fence and it hurts [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm no trying to be rude, or call you stupid (even if the act itself is foolish). However, it is silly to jump on a bandwagon that costs 5-10K more when you can get to the same destination just by waiting several months."
No worries. However, wouldn't you feel foolish if in fact the people (10-20%) did pay the AMV and by waiting for MSRP, you ended up without?
"If in August 2007 I was wrong, well you can publicly humilate me by calling me on it. If I'm right, the only thing that will happen is I'll have one at MSRP."
I would never consider publicly humiliating you - this is just a discussion [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] . With any luck, I'll get mine very close to MSRP, you'll get yours for MSRP and we can have a beer and admire our beautiful machines. Trust me, I do not want to pay AMV and it may even prohibit me from buying the Shelby. I just have doubts as to how many, if any, will be available towards the end of 07. I think the turn out for this car is going to far surpass the turn out for the Mach and other recent SE's.
Can we agree to disagree? I can [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Bye the way, what color combo will you be ordering?
"First, why can't you get it at MSRP? Secondly, you just admitted a dealer has to be a bit dishonest to charge more then MSRP. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]"
I can't get it at MSRP b/c not one dealer I have spoken to will even consider it. I started looking in February of last year. Unfortunately, I havn't found an honest dealer yet.
"Do you think there is a market for even 14K Ford Shelbys at $5-10K above MSRP? I'm not sure how long you've been around Mustangs ..."
If they do indeed commit to only make around 14K over a 2 year run, then I do think $5-10K above MSRP will be paid. My first Mustang was a 1969 Mach 1 with a 302 Boss. Sold her in 1984 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]
"You, and everyone else, has the ability to NOT pay the AMV if you choose not too. You're choosing to pay it, and so will about 10-20% of the other people..."
If 10-20% of the other people agree to pay the AMV, then there will be close to 0 left to be sold at MSRP.
"The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL."
I have not decided for sure if I will pay the AMV - I'm on the fence and it hurts [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm no trying to be rude, or call you stupid (even if the act itself is foolish). However, it is silly to jump on a bandwagon that costs 5-10K more when you can get to the same destination just by waiting several months."
No worries. However, wouldn't you feel foolish if in fact the people (10-20%) did pay the AMV and by waiting for MSRP, you ended up without?
"If in August 2007 I was wrong, well you can publicly humilate me by calling me on it. If I'm right, the only thing that will happen is I'll have one at MSRP."
I would never consider publicly humiliating you - this is just a discussion [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] . With any luck, I'll get mine very close to MSRP, you'll get yours for MSRP and we can have a beer and admire our beautiful machines. Trust me, I do not want to pay AMV and it may even prohibit me from buying the Shelby. I just have doubts as to how many, if any, will be available towards the end of 07. I think the turn out for this car is going to far surpass the turn out for the Mach and other recent SE's.
Can we agree to disagree? I can [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] Bye the way, what color combo will you be ordering?
3/2/06, 11:29 AM
#29
Team Mustang Source
stangster,
I think it boils down to your perception of availability. Jeff and I think 10k/year will be more than enough. The dealers want you to think that there won't.
If you don't want to take that chance, pay over and be happy with it. Hopefully you will stay an active member of the board and we can compare notes later. I am basing my opinions on past experience. IF I don't get the car, I will survive and buy something else. I worked at getting a dealer at MSRP. I think if you work at it, you can, too. But, don't take a chance just because I said so.
I think it boils down to your perception of availability. Jeff and I think 10k/year will be more than enough. The dealers want you to think that there won't.
If you don't want to take that chance, pay over and be happy with it. Hopefully you will stay an active member of the board and we can compare notes later. I am basing my opinions on past experience. IF I don't get the car, I will survive and buy something else. I worked at getting a dealer at MSRP. I think if you work at it, you can, too. But, don't take a chance just because I said so.
3/2/06, 12:09 PM
#30
Bullitt Member
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crazyhorse @ March 2, 2006, 12:32 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
stangster,
I think it boils down to your perception of availability. Jeff and I think 10k/year will be more than enough. The dealers want you to think that there won't.
If you don't want to take that chance, pay over and be happy with it. Hopefully you will stay an active member of the board and we can compare notes later. I am basing my opinions on past experience. IF I don't get the car, I will survive and buy something else. I worked at getting a dealer at MSRP. I think if you work at it, you can, too. But, don't take a chance just because I said so.
[/b][/quote]
Thanks. Nicely put. Of course I will continue to be an active member of this finely established board. Cudos to Brad and his wife and the moderators for doing such good work here. I do value your opinions - and trust me - I have not given up looking for MSRP! The hunt goes on!
Compare notes? Hmmmm. Speaking of looking for MSRP ... what did you do ... pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Ha Ha. No, wait a minute, really, pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Just kidding. No, wait a minute, really, pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Take care and I am sure we will chat again sometime. I can hardly wait to see your Shelby on the site.
stangster,
I think it boils down to your perception of availability. Jeff and I think 10k/year will be more than enough. The dealers want you to think that there won't.
If you don't want to take that chance, pay over and be happy with it. Hopefully you will stay an active member of the board and we can compare notes later. I am basing my opinions on past experience. IF I don't get the car, I will survive and buy something else. I worked at getting a dealer at MSRP. I think if you work at it, you can, too. But, don't take a chance just because I said so.
[/b][/quote]
Thanks. Nicely put. Of course I will continue to be an active member of this finely established board. Cudos to Brad and his wife and the moderators for doing such good work here. I do value your opinions - and trust me - I have not given up looking for MSRP! The hunt goes on!
Compare notes? Hmmmm. Speaking of looking for MSRP ... what did you do ... pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Ha Ha. No, wait a minute, really, pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Just kidding. No, wait a minute, really, pm me your secret [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Take care and I am sure we will chat again sometime. I can hardly wait to see your Shelby on the site.
3/2/06, 12:43 PM
#31
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
I am defintely going with an orange or yellow. Obviously, I may have pushed myself to the 08 model year, and by doing so, I don't know the colors available (hopefully there will be a tue Orange at that point).
If the same colors carry over from 07-08, I'll get the Valencia Yellow/Orange. If I go the coupe route, I'll order it minus the stripes (the Tungsten stripes don't do it for me).
And of course, we can agree to disagree. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
If the same colors carry over from 07-08, I'll get the Valencia Yellow/Orange. If I go the coupe route, I'll order it minus the stripes (the Tungsten stripes don't do it for me).
And of course, we can agree to disagree. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
3/2/06, 01:06 PM
#32
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I previously stated that I might not have two years left however I will not tolerate a full shafting situation. 10 K over? Not in my lifetime. If you think I am being foolish to pay over MSR for this car before I am buried so be it. I will be driving or riding with a big ear to ear smile.
3/2/06, 01:09 PM
#33
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I think we have to recognize that there are people out there who make a comfortable enough living that they can afford to pay a premium (albeit an unnecessary one) to have something sooner rather than later. I am, unfortunately, not a member of this group of people, but for some an extra 1 to 5 thousand to have the car a year before others can get it for MSRP is worth the expense. I ran across this problem looking for a GT. I turned down several cars because the dealers want 3-5 thousand over MSRP, but the cars still sold within a week. I'm guessing that some of those people never looked back at the extra money with regret because they have so much coming in. Its just a fact of life.
3/2/06, 01:41 PM
#34
Legacy TMS Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JeffreyDJ @ March 2, 2006, 12:33 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL.
[/b][/quote]
Slight correction - 6500 total (look at the 3rd paragraph of this Ford media article.
That rarity lasted 4 months.
The simple fact of the matter is people DID pay 5-10K over for a Mach 1 -- just like you plan to do with the GT500. And that was when there were only going to be 7500 produced in TOTAL.
[/b][/quote]
Slight correction - 6500 total (look at the 3rd paragraph of this Ford media article.
That rarity lasted 4 months.
3/2/06, 01:56 PM
#35
Legacy TMS Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crowestang @ March 2, 2006, 3:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think we have to recognize that there are people out there who make a comfortable enough living that they can afford to pay a premium (albeit an unnecessary one) to have something sooner rather than later.
[/b][/quote]
BINGO!
The purchase of this car is an emotional rather than investment purchase.
It has been said those people paying over MSRP will be making it harder for others to get a GT500 at MSRP or below. Based on the Mach 1 experience, I would say no way. People like me who paid MSRP for the Mach thought we got a good deal because there would be only 6500 or 1 year.
When the increased production numbers and rebates came, the Mach values went down by the amount of those rebates. Yes, I was out having fun with the car sooner rather than later. When I look back and reflect on "only 6500" and "resale value" as decision drivers, it was the projected number that drove me to buy early.
I still ask myself if it was worth the extra $4000 I wound up paying. Utlimately, that is what each purchaser is weighing - are the extra $$ worth it. Now I think waiting is worth it.
I believe those who buy early will get one and those who wait will get one. I don't believe they will "run out" of GT500s.
I think we have to recognize that there are people out there who make a comfortable enough living that they can afford to pay a premium (albeit an unnecessary one) to have something sooner rather than later.
[/b][/quote]
BINGO!
The purchase of this car is an emotional rather than investment purchase.
It has been said those people paying over MSRP will be making it harder for others to get a GT500 at MSRP or below. Based on the Mach 1 experience, I would say no way. People like me who paid MSRP for the Mach thought we got a good deal because there would be only 6500 or 1 year.
When the increased production numbers and rebates came, the Mach values went down by the amount of those rebates. Yes, I was out having fun with the car sooner rather than later. When I look back and reflect on "only 6500" and "resale value" as decision drivers, it was the projected number that drove me to buy early.
I still ask myself if it was worth the extra $4000 I wound up paying. Utlimately, that is what each purchaser is weighing - are the extra $$ worth it. Now I think waiting is worth it.
I believe those who buy early will get one and those who wait will get one. I don't believe they will "run out" of GT500s.
3/2/06, 02:30 PM
#36
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tony Alonso @ March 2, 2006, 2:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Slight correction - 6500 total (look at the 3rd paragraph of this Ford media article.
That rarity lasted 4 months.
[/b][/quote]
You're right, it was 6500 -- which ended up being about the production run for 2004 alone. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crowestang @ March 2, 2006, 2:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think we have to recognize that there are people out there who make a comfortable enough living that they can afford to pay a premium (albeit an unnecessary one) to have something sooner rather than later. I am, unfortunately, not a member of this group of people, but for some an extra 1 to 5 thousand to have the car a year before others can get it for MSRP is worth the expense. I ran across this problem looking for a GT. I turned down several cars because the dealers want 3-5 thousand over MSRP, but the cars still sold within a week. I'm guessing that some of those people never looked back at the extra money with regret because they have so much coming in. Its just a fact of life.
[/b][/quote]
True to a point, but people who CAN'T afford it will still do it. I suppose I could pay the 5-10K, but I just refuse to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mongoose @ March 2, 2006, 2:09 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I previously stated that I might not have two years left however I will not tolerate a full shafting situation. 10 K over? Not in my lifetime. If you think I am being foolish to pay over MSR for this car before I am buried so be it. I will be driving or riding with a big ear to ear smile.
[/b][/quote]
If I read that right, it appears you may have an entirely different set of circumstances -- one in which my original advice may not hold. Feel free to ignore it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
Slight correction - 6500 total (look at the 3rd paragraph of this Ford media article.
That rarity lasted 4 months.
[/b][/quote]
You're right, it was 6500 -- which ended up being about the production run for 2004 alone. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crowestang @ March 2, 2006, 2:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think we have to recognize that there are people out there who make a comfortable enough living that they can afford to pay a premium (albeit an unnecessary one) to have something sooner rather than later. I am, unfortunately, not a member of this group of people, but for some an extra 1 to 5 thousand to have the car a year before others can get it for MSRP is worth the expense. I ran across this problem looking for a GT. I turned down several cars because the dealers want 3-5 thousand over MSRP, but the cars still sold within a week. I'm guessing that some of those people never looked back at the extra money with regret because they have so much coming in. Its just a fact of life.
[/b][/quote]
True to a point, but people who CAN'T afford it will still do it. I suppose I could pay the 5-10K, but I just refuse to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mongoose @ March 2, 2006, 2:09 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I previously stated that I might not have two years left however I will not tolerate a full shafting situation. 10 K over? Not in my lifetime. If you think I am being foolish to pay over MSR for this car before I am buried so be it. I will be driving or riding with a big ear to ear smile.
[/b][/quote]
If I read that right, it appears you may have an entirely different set of circumstances -- one in which my original advice may not hold. Feel free to ignore it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
3/3/06, 02:21 PM
#37
Cobra R Member
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Crazyhorse thank you for your humorous postings. Your grasp of reality is indeed amusing and you do make me smile. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] Have you ever thought of running for president? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
3/3/06, 06:24 PM
#38
Team Mustang Source
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mongoose @ March 3, 2006, 4:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Crazyhorse thank you for your humorous postings. Your grasp of reality is indeed amusing and you do make me smile. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] Have you ever thought of running for president? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Again, I'm confused, Bill. Are you joking, do you think I am or do you think I don't know what I am talking about?
My posts are serious regarding availablity. Do I have inside info? No, I don't.
Am I right? I sure think I am. Check back 6-9 months after the car is released and see if I am or not. In the meantime, if you have some time limiting factor (illness, age or whatever) then spend your extra AMV and get the car of your dreams. Enjoy it like no other. I surely hope that you don't have a limited time left.
I have no personal goal for encouraging people not to pay it. I am getting mine for MSRP (still too much IMHO, but, fair for an early car). I am just trying to point out to people that it is not necessary to pay it. The point of this forum is to educate, provide information, discuss it and learn from it. Just like "how do I install this or that", people come here to learn.
What is your claim to credibility? I have been following the Mustangs since the early '80s. I feel like I can provide help to those that don't know them. IF you want to encourage them to spend needless money, that is up to you. It is your right to disagree with me. To doubt that what it see is reality is a mistake, but, still your right to doubt and refute it. We will see Whose credibility is still intact in less than a year.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
BTW, are you buying one of them or just trolling?
Crazyhorse thank you for your humorous postings. Your grasp of reality is indeed amusing and you do make me smile. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] Have you ever thought of running for president? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Again, I'm confused, Bill. Are you joking, do you think I am or do you think I don't know what I am talking about?
My posts are serious regarding availablity. Do I have inside info? No, I don't.
Am I right? I sure think I am. Check back 6-9 months after the car is released and see if I am or not. In the meantime, if you have some time limiting factor (illness, age or whatever) then spend your extra AMV and get the car of your dreams. Enjoy it like no other. I surely hope that you don't have a limited time left.
I have no personal goal for encouraging people not to pay it. I am getting mine for MSRP (still too much IMHO, but, fair for an early car). I am just trying to point out to people that it is not necessary to pay it. The point of this forum is to educate, provide information, discuss it and learn from it. Just like "how do I install this or that", people come here to learn.
What is your claim to credibility? I have been following the Mustangs since the early '80s. I feel like I can provide help to those that don't know them. IF you want to encourage them to spend needless money, that is up to you. It is your right to disagree with me. To doubt that what it see is reality is a mistake, but, still your right to doubt and refute it. We will see Whose credibility is still intact in less than a year.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
BTW, are you buying one of them or just trolling?
3/3/06, 06:45 PM
#39
AKA 1 BULLITT------------ Legacy TMS Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crazyhorse @ March 3, 2006, 8:27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
... people come here to learn...
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yup.gif[/img]
Exchange of information for the benefit of the masses.
Which reminds me, that Shelby VP of Propaganda sure could have used a couple more lessons.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
... people come here to learn...
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yup.gif[/img]
Exchange of information for the benefit of the masses.
Which reminds me, that Shelby VP of Propaganda sure could have used a couple more lessons.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
3/3/06, 08:27 PM
#40
Closet American
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People should just do what they want to do. If your doctor's told you you're gonna die of cancer in a year, then by all means eat the AMV and enjoy life. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
But all things being equal, no one should ever pay AMV on any car for any reason at any time. It's a fool's errand on a depreciating asset that begins depreciating the MOMENT you drive it off the lot, and calculated on the MSRP, NOT on the MSRP + AMV.
I also believe Ford should have a tighter reign on what dealers (who REPRESENT Ford to the consumer) can and cannot do. Too much AMV nonsense with this car will lead many buyers to purchase something else, ultimately hurting Ford's sales targets.
MSRP + AMV + Greed = lots of [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ranting.gif[/img] owners in another 18 months when they learn that the rest of us are picking them up for UNDER MSRP.
But all things being equal, no one should ever pay AMV on any car for any reason at any time. It's a fool's errand on a depreciating asset that begins depreciating the MOMENT you drive it off the lot, and calculated on the MSRP, NOT on the MSRP + AMV.
I also believe Ford should have a tighter reign on what dealers (who REPRESENT Ford to the consumer) can and cannot do. Too much AMV nonsense with this car will lead many buyers to purchase something else, ultimately hurting Ford's sales targets.
MSRP + AMV + Greed = lots of [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ranting.gif[/img] owners in another 18 months when they learn that the rest of us are picking them up for UNDER MSRP.