Since the TSB in early July, we have been reminded that Ford will be gleefully sending you packing if you show up with any kind of powertrain problem but have also ever run a tune at any time.

They appear to be simply washing their hands of any claim on the basis of the ECU ever having been flashed.

But...I think we need some data on this.
Has this actually happened to anyone?

What was your problem that you sought warranty coverage for?
Were you running a tune at the time you brought the car in?

I think most folks (if not everybody) understands that in a case where air fuel ratios were changed, timing was made more agressive, knock sensors were shut off, etc- the owner would be fully culpable to a #8 meltdown and no warranty coverage should be expected...common sense and completely fair, right?

...but will they refuse to replace a collapsed hose or a bad ignition coil on the grounds that you tuned the car?

Furthermore, if you are denied engine warranty, what happens if you try to trade the car in? Are you "blacklisted" by Ford and offered a lower trade in value Would they reinstate the remaining warranty to a susequent owner?

 

That's an interesting question. If having a non-factory tune at any point in time voids the warranty, then theoretically the resale of the vehicle should take a very big hit. I'm curious to know what the answer to this one is.

 

IMO unless they can prove you were running a tune when said part failed due to tune or modification, they can't deny warranty claim. If you ran a tune a year ago and then next week you blowup the #8 piston I don't see how they can place that blame on a prior modification.

 

I agree. This seems like common sense but I can completely imagine them taking a look at the PCM, not asking any more questions and just and telling you to go kick rocks.

 

Depends on how long you ran the tune for and if the tune had a potential to fatigue the piston to the point where it was incapable of handling even the stock tune's timing and A/F.

 

Sounds like you know a thing or two about the data they can pull from the ECU...

Can they see the date history? How specific does it get? Can they see how many times you bounced it off the rev limiter?

 

I am kinda curious how the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act would be used if Ford really did start killing warranty's I only have a V6 but I would like to know how much I could mod it before it becomes a problem for the ford warranty.

 

I haven't read the act in years but I seem to recall something about it applying to things NOT provided for free by the manufacturer. Might be good to look at that aspect carefully. It may be that the act doesn't protect people with tunes unless the tune was to fix a non-functioning factory tune AND Ford refused to fix it with a reflash for free. Its certainly within the kind of weaseling lawyers are known for.

 

I don't know how far back they can see, but I'm assuming there is some timestamp data.

Purely speculative.

From other threads, it is clear that Ford can tell when a PCM has been re-flashed.

 

Easy....they would reason that your tune overstressed the failed parts,causing a shortened service life...The failure wouldnt have to be immediate....

 

Warranty or lack of would follow the vehicle,regardless of who "owns" it...

 

[QUOTE=?

I think most folks (if not everybody) understands that in a case where air fuel ratios were changed, timing was made more agressive, knock sensors were shut off, etc- the owner would be fully culpable to a #8 meltdown and no warranty coverage should be expected...common sense and completely fair, right?

...but will they refuse to replace a collapsed hose or a bad ignition coil on the grounds that you tuned the car?

Furthermore, if you are denied engine warranty, what happens if you try to trade the car in? Are you "blacklisted" by Ford and offered a lower trade in value Would they reinstate the remaining warranty to a susequent owner?[/QUOTE]

I cant see them not covering things under warranty that arent related to the tune,,,,,

Im not aware of any dealer actually checking to see if warranty is intact,on a trade in....

 

I have never run a tune; in fact, my car is dead-stock and has always been dealer serviced since new.

I am concerned, however, that this warranty denial thing may be the wave of the future in order to boost profits. The manufacturers could always blame bad gas or something for cars like mine...

 

Guys, I do not have any experience on this but IMHO you would have one hell of a fight on your hands if Ford says NO to a warranty claim based on a tune, or any other mod. Look at it this way; you install a tune on your Mustang and later have a serious engine failure. If the dealer find that a tune was installed and uses that to deny your claim, where do you stand? Yes, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act states the malfunction must be related to the mod. So, they say it is, now YOU will have to get a lawyer and prove them wrong. Do you know how long that will take? In court? And all the while your pony sits awaiting a decision. You better not get it fixed while you're in litigation cause if the court wants the car checked (five years down the road) and it's been repaired, you're screwed, nothing to inspect.

I like mods too but be very careful. What the law says is not always what the law means.

 

Well if your car was stock and you held it on the limiter for 5 minutes and seized it what would they say then?? The failure would have to be immediate to blame the tune so far as I'm concerned. There could be any number of things that would cut short the longevity of a motor.

 

Think about it this way... It will cost them a lot as well to defend themselves if it were to come to that. Be easier to goodwill the repair and move forward.

 

From what I remember reading, that was the reasoning behind Ford developing the 'advanced spark ignition system' starting with the 08 Bullitt. The ECU reads the octane and adjusts timing accordingly so the new plastic metal pistons & powdered metal rods don't melt with a bad batch of gas (or user error).

That's why they put a limiter on it. So you don't go past redline and blow the motor. You can bang it all day long and it doesn't matter - to the engine or your warranty. Just shows you can't drive.

Come on... they have an entire legal department (priced into and paid by each unit) to protect the company from baseless claims. If they approve one baseless claim just to avoid the hassle, or to spread 'goodwill' when it wasn't their fault, they just established precedent and the flood gates would open for endless baseless claims (or worse class action), and likely seriously impair the business.
And remember, the shareholders own the company. If management isn't operating to safeguard the company's profits & future (protecting against baseless liability while building good customer relations & sales), shareholders are going to demand that heads roll!

 

1. They dont broadcast that they will goodwill things, let's be real now.
2. On the last three cars I've owned out of warranty, all three had repairs done covered under warranty outside of the warranty period. Don't tell me that they won't goodwill anything..
3. If you don't think holding holding your car at 7k on the limiter for five minutes straight could harm anything... Geez i don't even know what to say about that except go out and do it and tell me how that works out for you.

 

2. An engine replacement?
Minor things handled by Dealer discretion and/or the Company balancing costs with customer relations, is completely different than accepting liability for a huge repair that wasn't their fault - which would open the company and shareholders up to a landslide of moronic engine claims from moron boy racers and faulty tuners that have no skin in the game.


3. The engine dies until I release the pedal.

Unless I buy the aftermarket WOT Box for the track that lets you hold it and bounce off redline. Which would void my factory warranty.

https://themustangsource.com/f800/li...0/#post6071075

http://www.npcompleteperformance.com/wotbox

 

I cannot speak for Ford, at this time, I can say, in the past I have had very good luck with warranty work from them. This includes having a new ECM overnighted in 1997 for my Cobra. The car was out of sevice for two days. Of course the dealer was working with SVT and they were going to have the engine replaced and sent back to them, until it was found the computer was at fault.

With that said, I have a family member who recently lost an engine on a new Subaru. When they took it in to the dealer, the first question was..have you installed a tune? The engine was toast, but completly rebuilt, under warranty, after it was determined the failure was due to factory defect. Check the Subaru forums if you want to see some really unhappy people about warranty coverage and toasted engines.