I would like to pass on it also but it looks like we have no choice. It will find it's way on all cars in the near future.

Let's face it, EGR systems, Cat systems, smog pumps, evap systems, along with the 155 other emission control sensors and parts has found it's way on the modern car of today. Start/stop at least gives you an option to switch the feature off and it saves a bit of money if you use it....NO problems here.

I don't see why so many people a afraid or reluctant to have it on a car. Remember the change in 1986 to 1987 from mustangs with carburators to ECU controlled fuel injection? Scared many mechanics out of business. Same thing all over again I would say.......nay sayers and people who are scared to adapt. In 1989 Mass Air Flow meters (MAF) and additional sensors appeared on all mustangs. By 1996 all cars had to have an OBD II standard system for emission control. Just another step in the evolution. Now we have to look forward (like it or not) to direct injection, start/stop, and what ever else they have to implement without reducing engine power.

Reduce fuel economy and reduce emissions and still deliver 400 HP motors for under $30K.....but no silly start/stop like features. We seem to have high demands

 

If you dig it cool...some of us don't.

 

Remember the start/stop feature has an on/off switch. I have a plan.....I will press the button to switch off and forget it is even there. I would rather have this feature than lose 2 cylinders and 100 or so horsepower.

Nothing else to discuss

 

I suspect you'll find that the feature is on by default every time you start the car - like traction control. You'll have to push that button every time you start the car.

 

I like the plan but if it's like the traction control you are gonna be doing that every time you restart the car with the key...just sayin

 

You know i just thought of something. When the traction contol kicks in on my car the motor shuts down a number of the cylinders. When the new Challenger is up to speed on the highway it runs on I beleive only 6 cylinders. SO why don't they just use that technology to do this? Ok it wont shut the motor completely down but it will use less gas and create less CO2 in the air and on top of all that it's all software so the manufacturing carbon footprint is going to be significantly smaller than all these new componants that have to be run through R&D and then tooled up and created.

just a thought

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see it have both (start and stop & cylinder deactivation) technologies implemented.

I wonder, does the exhaust note change when it deactivates the cyclinders?

 

Mine does..sounds like the car is underwater

 

I will explain later about your traction control idea. However if you go back to the very first thread, I posted quite a few videos about various start/stop systems for even some of the high end cars like Porsches and S-Class Mercedes. The first two videos are from automotive industry suppliers. Obviously there are a few existing systems that the manufacturers can choose from or modify and integrate into their cars. The technology is not new. It doesn't require ground breaking research & development although they will continue to improve the technology - see here: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/04/start-stop-tech/

The car that I actually rode in with start/stop was a Panamera and it had the feature. I recall it being a menu item or something displayed on the screen for confirming on/off and it was not a default "ON" setting. It had to be switched "ON" for sure. I know when it was activated the car turned off at the red light and was back on before my friend could hit the gas on green light. It was an automatic Panamera. Just going from the brake to the gas was all the time needed to restart. It was like in a standby mode. Everything kept working like normal like A/C and the radio and lights.

These systems require modified starters and batteries as well as a control module or PCM brain box which regulates the feature. Leave that for the engineers. I am not going to guess if this works and if that works and will it break after the warranty ends. I trust that with all of the high tech features they have delivered on so far they will integrate this simple technology in the car properly. It is a simple but smart technology - http://www.cvel.clemson.edu/auto/sys...tart-stop.html

Default "OFF" because no manufacturer wants negative press about a feature that they have to integrate into cars. Trust me.....they don't want to penalize us. If so they can meet their required fuel economy goals by power reduction and provide fuel efficient 4 and 6 cylinders. There are more often times when the start/stop feature should be off.

Additional reading and a great source of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system

See what the TIER 1 (Bosch, Valeo, Visteon, Denso, Delphi, etc) automotive suppliers are developing and providing and how the technology has already evolved and been improved. Just research a bit. Become a more informed consumer.

Valeo - http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...providing.html

http://www.valeo.com/fileadmin/dotco...ool_ext_uk.pdf

Denso - http://www.globaldenso.com/en/csr/en...tor/index.html

Bosch - http://green.autoblog.com/2007/03/08...t-stop-system/

Which system will Ford use? Which supplier and which features??

 

crap, that was my only fear. Oh well I bet it won't be too bad because if I'm just cruising with the radio on I can't really hear my exhaust anyway

 

Geeze Euro..you have a stake in that industry or something?
I think I get the principle of this system.
Thanks to your overzealouse linkage I am an informed customer and still don't like it.

And i certainly would not count on it being off by default here in the states.
Just because it was that way on a Panamara in Europe has very little to do with what will happen here.
Lets hope you are right.


But as I said before
If you dig it cool...some of us don't.

 

Lol that's what I was thinking...

 

Don't think he's got a stake in it, he's probably like me when it comes to dispelling misinformation. The technology is coming whether people like it or not; and as the cost of gasoline keeps going up we're going to either have to adapt or stop driving.

What is apparent is that most people are resistant to change especially when it comes to new technologies. Every time something new comes along, be it seatbelts to airbags, distributors to electronic ignition to distributorless ignition to coil-on-plug, from carburetors to fuel injection to direct injection; every time the naysayers say it won't work, can't be done, gonna fail, etc etc etc.

In reality 20 years from now there's be new technologies our kids are going to be resisting, clinging to their hybrids because it was a "reliable time proven technology".

 

Wow you said it perfect and exact. I am also an automotive industry analyst and I love technology. I love the challenges of integrating tech in cars. I will find out from the Ford engineers here in Europe about the start/stop tech on the European Fords. If it is default set to "OFF" and I will let you know. One thing for sure is that due to the public having to adapt to this technolgy and having to adjust driving characteristics the feature will most likely be default set to "OFF" unlike traction control.

I am really waiting for the announcement of a dual clutch 7 speed transmission with paddles shifters for the mustang. I can't wait to see the nay-sayers reaction. In the end it will be a step in the right direction from Ford. At least they will always get money from me for a new car as long as they keep the tech coming.

 

I could do without the paddle shifters..I have driven a number of them and don't like them. Sorry I like to row my own gears. If i wanted the feel of an automatic i'd just get an automatic. And I'm not too concerend with the speed of shifting that kind of system (dual clutch) offers.

anyway back on topic kinda of.

To be honest my biggest resistance to all this technology is the simple fact that I wont be able to fix it when something goes wrong. I do love working on cars but when everything is computer controlled and so on it's getting harder and harder for the average joe to just get under the hood and turn some wrenches. To me it's not about just driving, it's about maintaining and working on my cars and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Alot of people out there couldn't care less about fixing thier cars and that's fine for them (alot of probaly have no idea how to change a tire..even some mustang guys i know are like this)...I'm not one of those types though.

I'm not opposed to technology at all..I love it infact. I just don't like technology that makes it impossible for me to work on my car or that becomes an annoyance when driving the car. I absolutely hate my traction control. If Ford could have made it so it didn't cut the power of the engine I'd be fine with it. So now it is rigged to be off by default.
In this case I was able to take matters into my own hands. If the stop start is off by default and it completely disables the system. Makes the car act in everyway (mechanically and to the end user) like they system was never placed on the car then I could live with it. Although I still fear the price of the battery when that goes bad.

Skipshift is another of these technologies that i can do without and the next car I get if it has it it will be disabled..even if it means putting a different tranny in it (although I'm sure defeating it will be pretty simple).

Anyway we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens with this stuff.

 

(I confess up front I have not read this whole thread nor viewed the videos)


I rode in a Mini in Paris recently that automatically shut itself off when we stopped at a red light, and instantly started itself back up when the driver hit the gas to start going again.

It was quite seamless and unintrusive. I did notice it happening and asked the driver about it and watched it work; it worked great, no problem at all, I think it is a good feature.

I remember the days when it (supposedly) took less gas to let the car idle for a little while than to shut it down and start it up again, but I guess that has changed so that now it is more fuel efficient to shut it down even for just a few seconds.