Whammer

You don't need to worry about heel and toeing and rev matching. If you're in 4th and slowing down for a turn just shift into 2nd and ease the clutch out so that you don't suddenly slam forward as the engine brakes the car. Easing the clutch out will allow the car to slow down in a more controlled manner.

You don't have to row through the gears. You can jump gears and go from 2nd to 4th or even 5th, or 1st to 3rd, and you can drop down from 5th into 2nd (again ease the clutch out to avoid sudden braking).

danimal15

II'd advise against down-shifting to first in general. I'd sooner keep it in second. The car can stay in second down to a very low speed without vibrating, I find. If it's absolutely obvious I'm going to have to stop, I'll shift to neutral.

Whammer

Yup. 1st is really just the "get going" gear. The only time I ever shift down into 1st is when I'm pulling into my driveway- it's a small upgrade and I just slowly creep up it and into my garage. I want to be going pretty slow when I'm pulling into the garage.

chutoyy

Vid help mayhaps?

Edit: is it just me or does youtube embeds... not work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B59-p...eature=related

Red Jay

also another note...if you hear the term clutchless shifting....dont do it.

to add to the video chutoyy posted watch this as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1A6b...eature=channel

cimag

This is just not the right car to learn to use manual shifting, the best thing that can happen is that you burn your clutch, the worst is to eat a wall or the car ahead of you...
But now that it's too late, the best exercise might be to get the car moving as slow as you can at the lowest revs possible, that'd help you to get the feeling of the throttle combined with the clutch.

danimal15

That's one lesson I remember well from my dad teaching me to drive a manual back in 1986. I learned on his new BMW 3-series. I guess he wasn't worried about me breaking the clutch (and that thing had an extremely heavy clutch - it was a hard car to learn on).

Lancel

Any car with a solid drivetrain and clutch is a fine car to practice on as long as you know exactly what you're doing. I guess you could say I studied technique and theory quite extensively before I even gave it a try. Like for six weeks before I even got my car I was just reading and asking on just how to drive a stick, and it helped a lot, especially understanding the mechanics behind how it all works.

I'd just say don't worry about killing the engine, leave a little room between you and the next guy to get started, and mostly practice in a parking lot. Also remember that the car can roll backwards, if you've been driving automatics, this will feel extremely weird and wrong to you. You get used to it. Trust me. Eventually you'll even kinda like it.

JimmyM

Yeah, I've watched that guy's "how to drive stick manual basics" more than 10 times. That's where I learned my basics - in theory, at least. I really wanted an inexpensive beater to practice on, but could not find one at a reasonable price or in a reasonable condition.

The car rolling back on an incline is a little nerve-wrecking. Even though I can get it going on a hill now, there is just way too many people that stop right behind you.

I thought the clunking was because I did something wrong. I guess it's just a common issue.

Thanks for the help everyone

Red Jay

i know how that feels! i hated it when i first learned! my gpa had taught me first to get the car going off an incline/hill. then once i learned how to do that he taught me how to get the car going off an incline/hill without the car rolling back so much.

sdsguy

these are all great tips you got i'm just going to give you an anecdote...

when i got my 05 V6, it was my first stick and i had no one in the family that knew how to drive (my dad used to back in the day but had gone over 30 years of not so he was no help). the worst part was the drive from the dealership home, i stalled about 15 times. sometimes i'd stall, turn the car back, and stall again. confidence in shifting will be what really helps. i spent 2 days trying to figure out when to give the car gas before i got it. once i was on the flat, i tried hills. i first went with the parking brake then once i was comfortable i just shifted normally. when i had mine i was also considering a sticker that said something about me rolling back from a stick, but then i realized it's always BMW drivers who ride my *** at stop lights on hills so i figured the douche bags would learn. once you figure out that sweet spot you'll have no worries about people riding your *** on the incline. hell, my 01 corolla is an automatic but it rolls back when i let go of the brakes because it has no power.

someone also mentioned riding the clutch, that's VERY important. i had smelled some burning but everyone i talked to told me it was the engine breaking in, until a service advisor told me i was riding the cluthc (she smelled the smoke) i wore my clutch out within 2 years because of that. that $600 repair taught me early to care for the clutch.

until your extremely comfortable, when coming to street to turn, i popped the car in 2nd with the clutch depressed and rode the brakes until i turned then gave it gas. after i got ok, i'd just downshift. i always found it better to go down an extra gear i.e. if i was in 4th shift down to 2nd. not sure if that's proper but it worked better for me. all turns can basically be taken at 2nd gear if you haven't noticed.

JimmyM

Hi, I have a few more questions. I didn't think making a new thread was necessary so I figured I'll just post in this thread again.

1.) When starting in 2nd, do you guys rev up higher before letting out the clutch? Or do you guys rev normally and gradually increase throttle as you let out the clutch? I rev'd up to 3k before letting out the clutch today and I'm sure it sounded like a noob was driving it, which would be accurate.

2.) In what situations am I burning the clutch? All I really know of are over-revving before letting out clutch when starting from stop, too much gas when shifting into higher gear, and "riding the clutch."

3.) What are the symptoms of the clutch going bad? I'm asking because the shifting is nowhere near the quality it was when I first purchased the car. 1st to 2nd is particularly rugged, and 2nd to 3rd is slightly better. Higher gears are fine. Again, due to my lack of experience, it could just be me sucking it up. Is it possible that in my first month of learning the stick shift, I have already done serious harm to my car?

4.) When my car is idle and I depress the clutch all the way down, I can hear a slight whirring sound from... somewhere. Is that normal? What is it?

5.) When shifting into a higher gear, do you guys quickly let out the clutch to the engage point and hold for a second or so, and then let it out as soon as it catches friction? Or should I just slowly release the clutch from bottom to top?

Again, thanks.

Red Jay

1. starting in 2nd? your supposed to start in 1st. just put it in 1st and bring the revs up between 1000-2000rpms and slowly let go of the clutch then when the car starts to move, hold it there till its fully engaged then let off completely. its not like bad or anything starting in 2nd its just more work on the engine and transmission.

3. i doubt thats anything. it sounds like thats just how fast/slow u get off the clutch. after all the higher the gear the less torque u have.

5. i usually just let out kind of quick then when it engages i just let off. i wouldnt see a need to let off of it really quickly unless i were racing.


i just answered the questions i could. as for your other 2 questions, theres someone else on here who knows those answers. i should know #2 but i cant think of any other ways besides the ways you described. whats your progress on driving stick?

chutoyy

2. Anytime you are starting from a stop you are burning your clutch. Rather, "slipping" the clutch.

To keep it simple, anytime the clutch isn't FULLY engaged or disengaged, you're burning the clutch.

4. Could be the radio? Differential gear in the rear axle? Transmission?

Lancel

What he said. Your clutch will one day die on you, that is unavoidable, but how you drive will affect whether that's in 20,000 miles or 120,000 miles.

Boomer

You could also glaze your clutch when learning, and it makes your clutch slip (like if it was dead)
Normal driving and regular shifts can clear this up after a while.

Bert

the other guys covered most of your questions but I'll take another shot anyway:

I don't know why people talk about starting in 2nd, I think this is bad advice especially for a beginner, the only way you can do it is to "slip" the clutch a lot -- which means "burn the clutch" (see below). To me it is much easier on everything to just start in first, and then shift quickly to 2nd when needed.

The clutch is made of several plates or disks that are pressed hard against each other when the clutch is engaged; not touching each other when the clutch is disengaged; and sliding over each other or "slipping" when you are engaging/disengaging the clutch. It is this slipping that allows you to get going smoothly -- when the car is stopped and the engine is turning, the slipping of the clutch matches the turning engine to the stopped transmission. Any time the clutch plates are slipping with respect to each other, the clutch plates are wearing or "burning." Normally this is minor and the clutch can go for a long time before it wears out. But, if you slip the clutch excessively -- like if you revved the entine to 3K in 3rd gear at a stop and then had to slip it a lot to get going, that will shorten the life of the clutch. Riding the clutch means constantly driving around with the clutch partly disengaged, or "slipping" -- which puts a lot of wear on those plates.

Not sure what is going on here, probably just technique, probably not a bad idea to take a ride with the dealer's technician or a friend who is knowledgeable.

Probably normal, you are probably hearing the clutch itself, not sure

Usually in higher gears (like 2-3, 3-4, 4-5) you can just let the clutch out all the way quickly and it will be fine. On the 1-2 shift I tend to slip the clutch a little, meaning let it out a little slowly like when you get going from a stop . . . not sure if this is really the best technique, but the car tends to buck a bit if I let out quickly.

chutoyy

The only reason I can think of starting in 2nd gear is if you're on ice... or in snow. But in those conditions, I think you'd have more to worry about than your clutch.

I guess you can think of a clutch like a brake pad. The rotor would be the engine, and the caliper would be the transmission...

Engine(rotor) is spinning, and the pad(clutch) is clamping on the rotor, which is like what happens when engaging the clutch.

danimal15

I'll "start" in second gear if I've slowed down a lot at a red light and it turns green as I approach it. I just avoid neutral and shift into second, even if I'm barely rolling along.

Cusp

Lots of advice here. Most I agree with. However, the more you slip the clutch the faster it wears out. Especially holding still on hills using clutch slippage. I only do that on rare occasion. Like when there is a stop sign I expect to only pause a fraction of a second for. Try the hand brake to hold a hill while you get the at the contact point and the throttle ready to add power. Release when you feel your set up and ready to take over with the engine.
When I learned, I progressed from various other machines. Dirt Bike, then a friends car with a 3 speed to learn to transfer the clutch concept from the left hand to the left foot. Then my first manual shift car. The skills transfered good enough. There are so many nuances. A different method for every circumstance. Really it becomes an extension of your will. What exactly do I want the car to do at this moment. What will I want it to do 5 seconds from now. This is why I like the manual transmissions. No auto I have experienced is so in tune with what is going on or about to go on.