I understand part of what influences packaging is exterior styling proportions. The engineer who was responsible for this part of the S197 program talked about the fine balance and between more room and too much room, while trying to accomodate the profile and stance. Add on top of this crash safety equirements and handling the heavy GT500 engine, as well as time and budget constraints, and you have a heck of engineering juggling act.

In my opinion, the only way the S197 could be reduced in weight without a massive change in the structure is to substitute lighter but stronger materials in various component areas or specific areas of bracing. However, that would have to be done in concert with accomodating the GT500 engine and its power levels.

What do you think is "wasted space" in the way the packaging is currently done?

 

I hear ya, I just don't think it's very practical to expect a car with the interior and trunk volume of the S197 to get much lighter without making it using exotic materials which would drive up the cost.

I'd like someone to show me another car of similar dimensions that is considerably less than 3400lbs.

In fact I've got another example:

2008 BMW 335 coupe - similar proportions and performance = 3571lbs

I'll say it again, I'm all for lighter but I'm not for more expensive nor for any reduction in interior dimensions at all.

 

I assume this is the curb weight for a base GT, but this is from Ford

• GT Coupe curb weight is 3356 lbs. with a manual
transmission

My car, loaded with 18" polished bullits and the exception of the shaker 1000, tipped the scales at 3527 lbs.

 

Make it 75 lbs lighter via more aluminum in the suspension and slightly smaller dimensions. Throw in a IRS rear and 6 speed tremec. If Ford could make the car somewhere in the 3375 range I'd be very happy.

 

Here's a serious question:

How much difference does 75lbs or even 200lbs of weight in the car make? I am not talking about unsprung weight either like wheels/tires/driveshaft etc. I mean sprung weight.

Are we talking a tenth?

 

I might be in the minority, but I like the musclecar mustang, wish Ford had the capital to build an affordable sports car based on the TTV6 and the RX-8 Chassis (being aproper sports car with 2 doors of course) using some GR-1 styling elements

 

The 18" wheels are aluminum - around 25 lbs each.

 

I'm pretty sure the 18" rims are in the low 30 lbs range each. go to ford racing website they tell the weights and most 18" are listed around 32lbs each.

 

[quote=bob;992752]I assume this is the curb weight for a base GT, but this is from Ford

• GT Coupe curb weight is 3356 lbs. with a manual
transmission[quote]

from everything I've read the Mustang M5 is 3400lbs and the A5 is 3450lbs.




the 99 GT was 3237lbs. and the 2v engine is about 100lbs heavier then the 3v.. so technically the S197 chassis and stuff is around 300lbs heavier then the sn95.

 

In the 1/4 mi, 100 lbs equates to roughly 1/10th of a second. I have no idea about on a track with curves. I was thinking of the earlier comment of removing 75lbs and adding the 6 spd and IRS. The 6 spd and IRS would put the 75lbs back in. You would tick off all the drag racers too.

The Mustang isn't a sports car. There isn't a big enough market for that. Dangit if Top Gear didn't run it against a friggen Lotus this week. I am impressed that a Mustang even came close as it is a good comfortable commuter. geeez. It performs better than some of them out there, so I guess it was natural for even the US hating TG staff to compare it.

 

My thing about the weight is the feel of the car. I've got a ton of suspension mods and the car feels heavy in the corners. It handles really great with what I've done don't get me wrong. Maybe it's the steering rack too, but I have no way to confirm that.

 

[quote=Knight;994134][quote=bob;992752]I assume this is the curb weight for a base GT, but this is from Ford

• GT Coupe curb weight is 3356 lbs. with a manual
transmissionMaybe Ford didn't calculate fuel into that weight figure (although I would guess that "curb weight" would indicate the vehicles weight with a defined amount of fuel in the tank???? But 3356 lbs is close enough to 3400 lbs to be believable. The difference between 17" and 18" wheels is probably a minor amount, but the articulated seats add quite a bit, and both my seats are power (the driverside having more adjustment than the passenger side). The curb weight may also never have been adjusted from the original 05 figure, the 07's had about 70 pounds of extra material added to help strengthen the chassis for the GT500 (weight bleh... but its nice to know that if you have a 07 or later Mustang it can handle 600hp no problem and only needs the agtendant suspension rather than bracing it to high heaven like the SN95 or Fox cars)

 

3400 was the 05 wieght. I beleive the 07+ is 3450 M5 and 3500 A5.

 

Y'know I find the SN95 cars feel top heavy compared to the current car, whenever I get in one and start moving it around, it feels like there is a trunk of lead shot on the hood, the effect seems most pronounced on the DOHC cars, but is still noticable on the 2v cars as well. Its pretty neat what added wheelbase and a switch to aluminum can do for that. I'd love to compare a GT500 to the GT to see if the same feeling is present (being that it has a super-charger, intercooler, iron block and DOHC heads)

To bad the current chassis probably wont be around long enough to really optimize it, after all the cost have been amortized you could probably do some neat things with it, like replace non-structural stuff with thinner stronger steels and maybe even add some alumuinum in there too (thinking maybe the roof panel if it isn't already so, or suspension bits and pieces - although Ford contends its front control arms are lighter than some alumninum parts).

Maybe with the next chassis (which is supposed to be global and the foundation for a few plateforms) will have the volume nessecary to get a few of these things.

 

Lol, now for some depressing news, GM has 6.2 DI V8, it improves cold-start emissions, and provides a 3-6% increae in economy over the current 6.2 and is capable of making an very easy 450hp on E85. The DI egnine though wouldn't come out until the next gen (gen V) small block, but apprently thats right around the corner.

On that note, how bout this name for Ford's next V8 family "Duke Nuke'em", cause you know, it would be nice if something other than an article from down under would let some info filter out.

 

Cobra Jet I tell you, BRING back the COBRA Jet.

 

I tried to read this whole thread, but 11 pages was just too much. I did get through enough to get the just of it though. Here`s my thoughts.

1) For the immediate future we don`t need a bigger/new engine for the GT. The 4.6 3v just needs to be refined. Let`s open it up with a slightly bigger bore and longer stroke. Top it off with the 4v head design that we already have. Then redesign the intake manifold for power gains. With a decent cam grind you are looking at a 50 rwhp improvement minimum. And that`s mostly with pre-existing parts.

2) Give a higher performance option available for a price. Based around a higher performance cam set, rear gear and suspension upgrades. All parts already available from the FRPP catalog. C`mon, not everyone will opt for it, but with the 4v heads a cam change would be a viable option. Combined with a package exclusive rear gear and the FRPP handling pack it would make for a different enough car to base SE`s around.

3) Let`s shed a little weight. I think 150 lbs. is realistic. The cost of using aluminum has come way down in the last 10 years. It`s time that Ford has caught up with the present. Combine some moderate suspension part replacement with lighter cast aluminum wheels and you are almost there.

Most of what I suggest is low dough. The parts already exist for the most part. The rest is improvements in material and manufacturing processes that Ford should have made 3 to 5 years ago.

Eric

 

I'm not sure but is seems the current crop of aluminum wheels seems ro be forged, which generally are lighter than htier cast brethern. Ford claim the front control arms are lighter than some aluminum units.

IMO, the biggest area to reduce weight in would be the body, I dunno what sort of steel Ford uses for the Mustang chassis, but if it is the same ol cheap stuff they used in the older mustangs then weight savings could be had there by using thinner but stronger steels, However, we are talking a body designed to cope with 500+ hp.

As for the 3v 4.6, I dont know how much bore you could safely put in the engine, but Ford dosen't seem to want to go more than the 3.55" bore they have now, It'd be nice if they could go with a 3.70" bore (as I understands it, the 3.70 bore works wonders with the 4v heads), that'd give it a nice 5.0 liter displacement with the 3.55" stroke. Obviously there is room to improve the 3v heads as seen by Fords on CNC porting program which is probably pretty mild, however personally, I say ditch the V8's and go with a V10 with an even shorter deck and and shorter stroke, 3.550 x 3.050 yields a nice 302 cubic inches and given the current 6250 rpm redline, such an engine could rev past 7,000 rpm and still keep similar piston speeds. peak horsepower on the V8 is achieved 500 rpm before redline, shift that to 6500 rom (if say you put the V10 redline at 7000, said engine could rev to 7200 rpm) and you pick up 40 horsepower. If you went with a premium fuel tune thats 360 horsepower, pump that up to a 7200 rpm redline and place peak power at 6800 rpm and its another 17 hp, ditch the IMRC plates and cast the 3v heads with a port conour similar to the CNC'd heads and a 400hp V10 becomes possible on premium fuel with a nice boost friendly compression ratio. go with DI and even higher static compression ratios and you could improve the fuel economy and power output as well, or just go with fuel economy improvements alone and leave it in the 400hp neighborhood.

Ehhh... but enough of this pipe dream, the Duke Nuke'em II V8 is coming out in two or three years anyway.

 

Duke Nuke 'Em rocks!

 

Do you have a source for this information? I've seen 50lbs as another quoted amount. I have not seen any curb weight figures for the '07s in the major Mustang magazine or Ford literature.

Thanks!