The 5.0 is probably a new block, and not one in the FRPP catalogue or based on it.

 

OK ... at least we got that part of my question addressed ... anyone else on the rest of it?

(going to be cool to see if they use the FRPP 5.0 MOD block or not)

 

If you are referring to your 3.70 bore size question, the answer is NO, then new 5.0 will be 3.63" bore NOT 3.70.

I think what is happening is people (including magazine writers) are confusing the new 5.0 Mustang engine with the old 5.0 Cammer engine which has a 3.70" bore.


If you're referring to a 3.7" stroke, again the answer is NO there will not be low deck factory engines with a 3.7" stroke. Given the deck height of the 4.6 & 5.0 blocks, there is too much cylinder side loading which causes wear. Yes aftermarket shops do this sort of thing all the time, but they're not selling 80,000 of them a year with Ford warranties. An engine with that sort of cylinder loading would never pass Ford's 150,000 mile durability test.

 

OK, Thanks!

What I'm trying to figure out now is will the new 3.63 bore block be aluminum or iron?

If aluminum, will this be steel sleeved or all aluminum with aluminum bores?

Is there a reason(s) why Ford wont use the FRPP 5.0 block since they already have it tooled?

Heads: 2-V, 3-V, or 4-V?

By the way ... I'm with a bunch of co-workers and we're trying to figure all this out. It seems some of Yall are privileged to information that we aren't.

Thanks Again

 

Aluminum, you can bet the house on it. The next Mustang is on a relatively involved weight loss program and at least one insider has directly connected that edict to decisions made within the 5.0L V8 engine program. In light of that I can't imagine that the block is going to be anything but aluminum. In fact, I've wondered if the cast iron FRPP block isn't a 5.0L V8 engine program 'leftover' abandoned by Ford because it uses a cast iron block which means more weight.

As for siamese bores, since the existing Mod motor lineup uses these...or at least they do when they are cast in aluminum anyway...I'd be surprised if the new 5.0L doesn't have them too.

 

So we'd be good in using the cast-iron block with siamese bores on the street then, is that correct in what you're saying?

If this is the case then an aluminum 3.7 bore block might be the best choice, at least for a street car. Does Ford offer one of these?

 

Interesting.

 

AFAIK nobody is exactly sure just how 'changed' or truly new this motor is. In other words, existing Mod motor heads and blocks may or may not be interchangeable.

 

In a word, yes. I don't know where the silly notion that siamese bore engines cannot be used on the street. GM employed the technology in the early seventies to stretch the displacement of the SBC to 400 cubic inches (4.125 x 3.75) and the engines chugged along in various GM boat anchors with little problem. The aftermarket has used siamesed bore blocks forever as well.

I think the bad rap for using siamesed bore engines probably came from alot of amatuer engine assemblers (note I didn't say builders) slapping together siamesed bore engines and neglecting things like drilling steam holes in the cylinder heads that were not equipped for duty on a siamese bore engines, the over-sight inevitably lead to engine failure due to uneven cooling.

 

Announcement expected on reopening of Ford plant in Windsor
Dave Hall and Chris Vander Doelen, Windsor Star
Published: Friday, March 28, 2008
WINDSOR - Ford of Canada's closed Essex Engine plant will get a $17-million push toward eventual reopening Monday from Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.
A ceremony at the plant Monday to announce the provincial funding represents the first phase of the possible reopening of the plant, sources said Friday. The reopening will be structured so that the federal government could contribute down the road, should it choose, the sources said.
One source said incentives totalling $17 million would be forthcoming from the province in the short term, with more to come later if the rest of the larger project receives approval by Ford and the federal government.
"Discussions would continue for the next phase," the source said. "But this is a good start. It's a phased-in approach - this is to get it going."
Sandra Pupatello, minister of economic development and trade, acknowledged Friday that a funding announcement would be made but declined to provide details.
Last year, Ford said it would consider placing a new product in the idled plant provided the provincial and federal governments contributed a total of $60 million towards the project.
The province said at the time it had committed $30 million but the federal government has downplayed any chance it would contribute to the project.
In February, CAW president Buzz Hargrove said a new competitive operating agreement reached between the company and CAW Local 200 could pave the way for a $600 million project which could provide employment for between 550 and 600 people.
Hargrove said at the time that the "low-volume" work Ford proposed last year has nearly doubled in size since the company, the union and senior levels of government began discussing it.
Originally worth $350 million, Hargrove said the project could call for a major retooling of the plant.
CAW Local 200 president Mike Vince said Friday he remains "cautiously optimistic" about the potential recall of up to 600 workers.
"I've been told two or three times in the past that an announcement was imminent, so for now I will remain cautiously optimistic," said Vince.
Vince said a new operating agreement for the Essex Engine plant includes outsourcing of some non-core jobs such as janitorial and shipping and receiving, as well as an amalgamation of some skilled trades categories.
"Our members recognized how important this is to the company, themselves and the community by agreeing overwhelmingly to the agreement last year," said Vince.
"Production workers voted 94 per cent in favour, the trades voted 90 per cent in favour, and I think that shows they understand what is going on in the automotive industry not only here but across the world."
Vince also said that Local 200 currently has 1,078 members on layoff or notice of layoff and about 500 more at the Essex Aluminum plant facing layoff with the plant slated to close by spring of next year.
"This would offset that closure and it would be a step in the right direction and provide some positive news."
Hargrove called Monday's announcement "very, very good news and something we've been waiting to hear for weeks."
Ford of Canada spokeswoman Lauren More did not return a call Friday requesting details of the announcement. Neither did Essex MP Jeff Watson, whose Conservative government has been assailed for not offering Ford cash to help reopen the plant.
Idled since the fall, only a handful of skilled trades people and others are still working inside the plant, decommissioning its lone remaining assembly line. Essex Engine used to have two assembly lines when it last ran at full production.
"We've been taking everything apart," said one of the workers, who asked not to be named. "The told us to wipe everything down - they're making a presentation on Monday."
The Ford worker said they have been told Essex Engine won't reopen for well over a year, until some time during 2009, in order to build a 2010 model year product. Full employment and full production under the program won't be achieved until some time in 2010.
The worker said union officials have told members of CAW Local 200 the new product is a modern, fuel-efficient version of Ford's 5.0-litre V-8 engine - "the old 302."
Other sources have said the first phase of re-opening Essex would merely be parts production - putting out engine cranks and connecting rods for a Ford engine assembly plant in the United Stares, most likely Romeo, Mich.
Essex Engine's laid off employees have been told to expect to see the old MVL (medium volume line) nearly doubled in size. The old MVL employed about 220 people on one shift, plus maintenance staff and supervisors.
The new operation would also employ a total of about 300 people per shift on two shifts, but not until 2010.


© The Windsor Star 2008

 

Windsor engines are comming back!

 

LOL. I suppose it will be a new 302 Windsor of sorts. However, cool as the old 302/5.0L engines once were I'm glad that this one only shared cylinder count/cylinder layout, point of assembly, and displacement with the original. Killer, naturally aspirated Ford small-blocks are set to make a comeback.

 

AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!

 

what kind of horsepower would you estimate out of a new 5.0? 400? close to it?

 

Depends on how they tune it, I'm guesstimating around 400 for now.

 

So will this be basically the same "tech" as the newer SOHC blocks? 3v... SOHC... etc?

 

Insiders have stated that the upcoming 5.0L will employ double overhead cams and direct injection.

 

I would love to see a DOHC GDI 5.0L.

 

Tall order but definitly worth the cost and hassle!!!!

 

So, does this translate to a 302 CID pushrod engine for the Mustang ... ???