New 305-HP Engine, 6-Speed Transmission Expected to Deliver 30MPG Highway
Mach 1 Member
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Might be some bias showing through here, but given the fact that the Ford seems to have an appreciably if not hugely fatter and flatter power curve and manages that and slightly superior fuel economy without DI I think the Ford has a case. Still, it's more than close enough to debate.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: October 27, 2005
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Just playing around with some numbers.
Past GTs have typically had about 43% more HP than the V6s:
1994-1998 V6 = 150HP
1994-1998 GT = 215HP
150HP + 43% = 214.5 HP
1999-2004 V6 = 190HP
1999-2004 GT = 260HP
190HP + 43% = 271HP
2005-2009 V6 = 210HP
2005-2009 GT = 300HP
210HP + 43% = 300HP
so if we follow that for the new car:
2011 V6 305HP + 43% = 436HP for the 5.0
Just playing with some numbers. Certainly makes the idea of a 360HP 5.0 (which would only be 18% higher than the V6) seem pretty far-fetched. I also realize that peak HP is just a small part of what makes a car fast/fun to drive, but at the same time it is crucial from a marketing perspective.
Past GTs have typically had about 43% more HP than the V6s:
1994-1998 V6 = 150HP
1994-1998 GT = 215HP
150HP + 43% = 214.5 HP
1999-2004 V6 = 190HP
1999-2004 GT = 260HP
190HP + 43% = 271HP
2005-2009 V6 = 210HP
2005-2009 GT = 300HP
210HP + 43% = 300HP
so if we follow that for the new car:
2011 V6 305HP + 43% = 436HP for the 5.0
Just playing with some numbers. Certainly makes the idea of a 360HP 5.0 (which would only be 18% higher than the V6) seem pretty far-fetched. I also realize that peak HP is just a small part of what makes a car fast/fun to drive, but at the same time it is crucial from a marketing perspective.
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
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Power to weight is very important but its not everything. A new E92 M3 has similar power to weight ratios and it runs mid 12s in the 1/4 mile while the Camaro runs high 12's to low 13s. A lot of it is the ability to put the power to the ground and gearing. The Mustang with its higher revving powerplant ala 4V per cylinder I feel should out run the Camaro...we will see shortly.
Dave
Dave
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So true...and whats funny is they had to fight to get the 285's, they originally were going to go with 255's on all 4 corners. Ford needs a 10.5" wheel with the right offset and fit some 305's at a minimum back there.
Dave
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Boomer alluded to it earlier but it is worth repeating IMO, what I really appreciate about Ford's new approach to engines is the focus on driveability and usable power. Peak power numbers are great, but look at the points in the power band where the 3.7L makes peak torque and horspower, and we begin to see a clear picture of a very flexible powerband. That is a sign of a great engine, and one of the ingredients in a great performance car.
Dave
Last edited by Dave07997S; Nov 30, 2009 at 11:30 PM.
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Dave
Shelby GT500 Member
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From: Chicago
Plus you get a bump in fuel economy with reduced emmissions.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: October 2, 2006
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From: Southeast Michigan
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 6, 2006
Posts: 14,053
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From: Bay Area, CA
Direct injection produces better results with forced induction, but it is still beneficial for N/A engines. You get better fuel metering and you can run higher compression for much more power.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: December 16, 2007
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From: West Chicago
HELL no. Have you ever heard a Charger with cylinder deactivation? That technology belongs on econo/family cars. NOT performance cars. My buddy had straight pipes put on his Charger R/T and ohhh my godddd is it horrible on the freeway when half the engine shuts down. You can keep that crap away from Mustangs thank you very much. It might get you 1-2mpg, but um no. I'd rather pay an extra $10 a tank than have that crap on my car!!
Mach 1 Member
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Direct injection produces better results with forced induction, but it is still beneficial for N/A engines. You get better fuel metering and you can run higher compression for much more power.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
What they didn't mention in the press release is the 6 spd. auto going to have a select shift function?
Dave
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: February 1, 2004
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Direct injection produces better results with forced induction, but it is still beneficial for N/A engines. You get better fuel metering and you can run higher compression for much more power.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
Either way you look at it, direct injection is worthwhile to add, along with variable cam timing, and cylinder deactivation.
GT Member
Joined: August 10, 2006
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And I'm wondering how much it would cost to drop the 3.7 and 6-speed into my 2009 V6...
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Trans probably won't mount. So you are looking at a complete engine assembly and trans, driveshaft, harness, ECU, and tons of other ****. MUCH cheaper to trade in the 09!
GTR Member
Joined: September 28, 2009
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I realize this, but forced induction really sees a major benefit with DFI. I would love to have DFI as well in the motors. According to Ford though, they probably won't add DFI for now and will wait with later models.
What they didn't mention in the press release is the 6 spd. auto going to have a select shift function?
Dave
What they didn't mention in the press release is the 6 spd. auto going to have a select shift function?
Dave
One downside that's been the case with DI turbos (Mazdaspeed3,6,CX-7, Cobalt SS/TC) is that they seem to fall on their face without secondary fueling at around 400hp. I don't know if the same holds true with the EB engines, but I'm sure we'll know soon enough. More companies are starting to address the fueling issues, and some solutions are in the works, but right now it's about the limit.
I'm only pushing 343hp, 378tq on my stock turbo with a re-tune, intake, and some other mods, but don't feel like swapping to a bigger turbo, injectors, or forging the motor.
With that said, the DI is coming, and you can expect a power bump. I don't think the EB's will be in the Mustang until they can ring out all the power from the DI and other technologies first.
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 20, 2006
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
Insurance companies are NOT going to like the hike in horsepower for the V6 model...Ford has always prided itself in offering a non-performance model Mustang for those on tighter on budgets...the insurance companies will now see the 305HP V6 as a "performance" model akin to the GT...and the rates will go up accordingly...
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Are the rate differences even that much? I went from a 2007 GT to a 2010 GT500 and my YEARLY premium only went up $225. $1200/year in SoCal for full coverage with 250k/500k/500k coverage and $100 deductible.
Last edited by eci; Dec 1, 2009 at 12:17 PM.
