it's a conspiracy! c-o-n-spiracy. kind of makes one wonder how much "savings" there would have been if the GT500 didn't have the "Shelby" badge attached to it. maybe a few hundred pounds worth of savings?

don't know about CF engine blocks mentioned in an earlier post, have only seen pictures of other prototyped engine parts a few years ago (in a import car mag, of all places) and motorcycle wheels - very expensive. a very simple and effective application that Ford can do now is start making the Mustang's driveshaft out of CF and go from there.

 

Hey, I appreciate humour as much as anyone, however, here is a little tidbit, the citation of which I will share with anyone who PM's me.

"These two quotes show that you don’t understand what is happening inside Ford. It’s not deadwood being cleared out – it’s the solid folk who provided Ford’s backbone for decades. And your statement is a case in point given that the CE of the Five Hundred was one of the first to go in what was purely a political move. He went from hero to zero in about a month when a certain Product Creation VP decided to make some changes to bring in “his” people. "

I didn't create that, I stumbled upon it looking for other info. In CONTEXT it was for something else. In retrospect, it shows more than Ford would prefer to let out, but in conjuction with other things, shows a lot of introspection, and hopefully some desire for remediation. There are people who have kept their best work in the drawer, because of what happened.

The company is in trouble. The entity that is Ford needs to change everything about the way it does business in about 20 months. Can it?

No way, but it sure can identifiy what needs to be fixed. So, conspiracy, no. A considered disipline, heck yea.

As an enthusiast, I want, no need, this company to get it together.

And as of Sept 06, when they brought in a complete outsider, they admitted that things are(were, will be?) pretty bad.

In case your post was sarcasm....

yes a few hundred pounds is the difference between credibilty, and a parody.

 

Not likely before the money runs out, no. And especially not if there's even a hint of the "business as usual" mentality that has plagued Ford for decades.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more than just a hint of that still evident.

Mulally's stewardship is the company's last hope for salvation. He's saying - and doing - many of what appear to be the right things. The question is: are the entrenched corporate policies and mahogany row lackies gonna thwart his efforts and make an already improbable task utterly impossible?

 

They'll be flipping burgers if they don't comply...
and I mean that by they'll ALL be flipping burgers if they don't.

 

So from serving Blue Oval specials to serving blue plate specials, is that what you're saying?

 

The carbon fiber would pay for itself over time having better fuel economy, lighter weight. For me gas mileage wasn't an issue.
IMO kike the bodyweight of my 06 coupe. Getting a stripper in 06 I noticed a difference in weight from option that I had on my 05 and not on the 06 were Shaker 1000 w/trunk wofer, side air bags, active anti theft. wheel locks, Kept the 17" wheels no 18", i heard 18" has larger brakes. Sorry if this makes no sense I was out till 2 am.

 

The brakes are on the same on the GT regardless if you have 17" or 18" wheels. Obviously the 18" wheels are heavier. The Shaker 1000 is the bulk of that weight among the options you list.

My vehicle is a "stripper" similar to yours in that it does not have the Shaker 1000, side air bags, leather seats, IUP, active anti-theft, satellite radio, or rear spoiler (I did put an aftermarket ducktail on instead).

I can only imagine carbon fiber being used on a hood or decklid, given the costs. Replacing other body panels with it seems like it would be impractical in costs for repair time. However, it would be interesting to see if there is a way to make this work and not break the bank.

 

Fuel Economy is a Big Factor because of the GAS GUZZLER TAX. If lighter weight will allow the Mustang to Get Further below that Standard then More Horspower can Follow without the Penalty!
Lighter Weight, More Horsepower and Better Fuel Economy is a WIN-WIN Scenario For All!

KC

 

Aint gonna happen on Mustang ..... Weight savings = bringing back an LX package .....

 

Tru'dat, but an LX package ain't coming back, anybody remeber the Mustang GTS [[que cricket sound]]. We'll see IRS and Boss motors before composites like carbon fiber become feasible for something like the mustang (remeber it has alot of market to cover, basically 19 to 40k+) and probably see increased use of aluminum before CF to contain weight. Then again if "Hencho En Mexico" appeals to you, these things can be had much sooner.

 

That may have to happen anyway for Ford to compete. Eager, non UAW workers happily willing to work for FAR less than their American counterparts. And you can't play the "quality card," either - look at the Fusion.

And after all, outsourcing is corporate America's flavor de jour these days. I suspect it's right around the corner for Ford...

All part of our brave new globally interconnected world.

 

Unfortunately you are correct. The dual advantage to America production facilities has traditionally been improved productivity and quality relative to what you could achieve elsewhere. Unions, which once served a purpose but have long since forgotten what that was, now largely serve to make certain that any work taking place in a given factory is as inefficient and quality free as possible.

Ironically enough, despite several years of history to indicate what hopelessly inflated wages combined with mediocre productivity inevitably leads to, unionized workers still can often be found steadfastly standing behind the union even as their job is being moved to some foreign locale. Even more surprising they still rely on the age old union tactic of appealing to the public in general through the press and picket lines despite the fact that the public is, by this point, vastly unsympathetic toward the cause of people who often do jobs requiring far less education than their own but who are nevertheless compensated far better for it.

The most disappointing part of this for me is that the America companies who leave these unionized areas virtually alway ignore the avenue that moving facilities into the southern portion of the United States can bring.

That said, if Mullaly wants to impress me (and I'm sure the idea of impressing me keeps Mr. Mulally awake at night) he could begin by implementing processes which are truly win-win situations all around, and which are ready to go as we speak.

1: When are all of Ford's engines going to be CGI, a technology which is advantageous in terms of producibility, cost, and performance (weight and strength) Has the timeline for this been advanced relative to what it was pre-Mulally? This is a light-weight, low cost alternative ready to go right now that cannot be implemented quickly enough. Are we still going to be waiting for this obviously advantageous transition to be completed when the 2012 Ford Focus debuts with a $500 carbon fiber sideview mirror option?

2: Is Ford exploring other areas where the advantages CGI offers could be employed for good effect (transmission housings, etc?) Or is Ford going to wait until several other manufacturers implement this first and end up following instead of leading?

3: Are the timelines for phasing out old engines and transmissions, and phasing in their replacements, being accelerated? Or can we expect older designs which need to be replaced to drag on needlessly in an ill-advised attempt to stave of retooling costs at the expense of improved product and economies of scale?

Execute everything that falls under the heading 'No-Brainer' first, then worry about wowing us with composite materials.

 

The UAW contract does not allow this. If Ford moved a plant from MI to TX it would still have to staff the new TX plant with UAW workers.

 

This is unlikely unless gas prices hit $10 / gallon. Carbon fiber is very expensive compared to steel and aluminum.

 

I should have made my point clearer. It is uncertain to me why the American auto makers are still pandering to the UAW in any way shape or form at this point. The implication here is obvious, and yes, doing what I am suggesting would be involved and complicated, but I doubt the backlash from the same would be worth mentioning at this point. And due to legalities it would take some time

But who would have thought three decades ago that minimizing the role of the union would be the most likely avenue to preserving truly good American jobs in the manufacturing sector?

 

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=25149

On the kickarse new TF engine series, and among other great news, is this;

"Its development was led by Ford Powertrain Research and Advanced Engineering, the same group leading the production design and development of this technology in a pilot program intended to speed the time to market with the new engine."

 

Are you referring to Stratified Charged Gasoline Injection systems...?

I agree. And do it with all deliberate speed.

 

Then the simple - and unfortunate - answer is to leave the U.S. as they have done with the Fusion.

It's time for the UAW to die. As jsaylor pointed out, it has bred complacency and laziness and entitlement amongst its workforce. The current union model no longer works in our Western society.

The only place I can see a union being advantageous in this day & age is a country like China, where workers only get 49 cents an hour and rights are trampled.

 

I thought CGI refered to Compacted Graphite Iron?

 

As you may have noticed I ocassionally paint with a broader brush than I intend to in an effort to keep my often long-winded comments as brief as possible, usually without much success. Productive union employees have my sympathy is spades since the union does little to help them, and arguably does them harm through countless ridiculous practices that reward everything but labor.

I don't think I'm giving the guy too difficult a time in light of his questionable comments regarding the Taurus. Thus far the majority of what he has done is great, and the fact that he is an auto industry outsider is likely paying some dividends. Hopefully he was simply crossing into the philosophical, if not perhaps he is best limited to issues of corporate governance, structure, etc.

I suppose I should have given some detail come to think of it.

Nope, CGI in this instance stands for Compacted Graphite Iron, and posting a link to Makino's site, a company which works with Ford no less, would do a far better job of explaining the benefits of the same in detail than I would without taking a page or so.

For a brief rundown, CGI offers a stronger,lighter combination than you can reasonably achieve with gray iron or aluminum. As a material it is nearly too good to be true, with excellent workability and relatively low costs as well as the above mentioned benefits. Although I must admit, the use of CGI is already more widespread than I had expected.

http://www.makino.com/search/article.aspx?id=1388

I understand the argument here, and had considered the same. For the reasons you mention in your reply, and others, I think Ford needs to seriously consider the benefits of trying to move to the front of engine innovation amongst the major brands.