January 2012 Mustang Sales Figures
2/1/12, 09:22 PM
#21
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Very good points. I'm happy with my 4.6 3V but that has a lot to do with the Whipple and other stuff I've done. It's not the greatest engine in the world but I wouldn't call it crap, that's a little harsh. It is kinda crazy it took Ford until 2011 to make a Mustang GT faster than 1998 fbody's. I'll give Ford this, once they got their act together they knocked it out the park. Can't wait to see that monster Shelby put some serious numbers down this summer!
Sorry for the harshness, lol. LS1 vs 4.6 was the reason for the harshness. Your right, Ford did knock it out of the park. Terminators did too, but the 5.0 is putting the same power out but without the blower.
2/1/12, 09:29 PM
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But holy s**t, the 6.2 does have vvt! My bad. No offense man but that makes it that much more pathetic to me. You mean to tell me that a 6.2 V8 with VVT in stock form is putting down 350 whp while a 5.0 V8 with VVT is dropping 370 to its wheels!? Unbelievable! Regardless, a V8 is still a V8 in terms of big power. Your 92 Camaro is gonna haul a$$. Im just an efficiency kinda guy. Getting alot from a little. I only see GM doing that with the 4 bangers and V6s.
2/2/12, 08:17 AM
#26
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Well i didnt want come right out and say that the 4.6 was crap because i was trying to be mindful of the current 4.6 owners on the forum here. But yea i agree on that. Btw im new to the mustang world as of 2 years ago and the ONLY mustang im concerned with is the 2011 and up 5.0 V8 period.
The Mach's engine pulled strongly because of the intake cams - great around town feel of torque. The Cobra's engine was that and more.
The 4.6L came A LONG WAY from the first 2V versions that came out in 1996.
All the experience of those engines built the foundation for the new 5.0L. So while celebrating that engine, respect the "elders" that led to its being
2/2/12, 08:51 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by ThrustangFiveO
I can't comment on the late 90s early 2000 muscle car era. I just wasn't a fan of either car. Not really sure what was going on there.
Focusing on the now, why is the Camaro outselling the Mustang? IMO it's HYPE. It's radically unorthodox styling tribute to the late 60s is somehow more appealing to the simple American. Maybe Transformers helped a little, or maybe they're all idiots. People care more about cosmetics than function. It's a simple minded decision. The Mustang is a superior machine. 9,000 people chose an archaic push-rod design with 2 valves per cylinder and no variable valve timing. Get with the times GM. Ford uses 1.2 liters less displacement while matching you in horsepower and besting you in mpg. Aren't we also like 250 pounds lighter? Everyone I've met that owns this new Camaro seem to know nothing about cars. Everyone I know that owns this new Mustang is a "car guy".
This video sums it up... (warning, strong language)
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkmUfnBMZDI
Overall ride quality, handling performance is good in mustang,camaro has better tech
2/3/12, 06:30 PM
#28
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There are some rather slanted comments in this thread(prompting me to join- and rant). Far as I can tell, Camaro is winning the sales race at this time because GM is advertising better/more. When's the last time you remember seeing a Mustang commercial? You can go onto an auto related video on youtube and have to turn off the ad near the bottom for full video viewing and almost always it seems, that ad is a Camaro ad. Haven't seen a Mustang ad yet, even when watching a Mustang video.
Auto sales are about advertising to make someone want the vehicle you're selling, not hp. Ford knows this(too) and used it for decades to outsell all other pony cars with Mustang, even when GM or Dodge had the power edge. Basically, since the 1960's, that tactic worked during any period when GM offered more power/torque.
Camaros are selling better than Mustangs in America and the only thing I can say is, GM has made more people want their product, even though it isn't actually made in America. Sales and prices will suffer once the main components begin to fail with age and people have to learn the hard way just how expensive maintenance can be. That may be a decade away, so Ford will need to make changes for a turnaround. I don't think FoMoCo is too concerned at this point, having a roughly 2:1 overal sales advantage AND having pretty darned solid sales currently, believe it or not.
The Camaro is NOT "crap" by any means. The Mustang is "better" in many ways, but let's face it, the Camaro and Challenger are sweet looking cars and both have a good level of performance capability even if Mustang exceeds them.
Btw, the 4.6L is an EXCELLENT engine. It isn't so great for drag racing in 2v form, but it's still outstanding. Look how long they last. Nuff said? Plus, look at the quickest drag racing Mustangs on earth using the 4.6L and you'll see this engine (in its nearly OLDEST form) has taken Mustang into the low 6's over the 1/4 mile. I can't call that a junk engine. Even the LS1 hasn't gone there(yet). Lest we forget, there are other LS engines after "the 1."
It's all good. Let's enjoy it while we can.
Auto sales are about advertising to make someone want the vehicle you're selling, not hp. Ford knows this(too) and used it for decades to outsell all other pony cars with Mustang, even when GM or Dodge had the power edge. Basically, since the 1960's, that tactic worked during any period when GM offered more power/torque.
Camaros are selling better than Mustangs in America and the only thing I can say is, GM has made more people want their product, even though it isn't actually made in America. Sales and prices will suffer once the main components begin to fail with age and people have to learn the hard way just how expensive maintenance can be. That may be a decade away, so Ford will need to make changes for a turnaround. I don't think FoMoCo is too concerned at this point, having a roughly 2:1 overal sales advantage AND having pretty darned solid sales currently, believe it or not.
The Camaro is NOT "crap" by any means. The Mustang is "better" in many ways, but let's face it, the Camaro and Challenger are sweet looking cars and both have a good level of performance capability even if Mustang exceeds them.
Btw, the 4.6L is an EXCELLENT engine. It isn't so great for drag racing in 2v form, but it's still outstanding. Look how long they last. Nuff said? Plus, look at the quickest drag racing Mustangs on earth using the 4.6L and you'll see this engine (in its nearly OLDEST form) has taken Mustang into the low 6's over the 1/4 mile. I can't call that a junk engine. Even the LS1 hasn't gone there(yet). Lest we forget, there are other LS engines after "the 1."
It's all good. Let's enjoy it while we can.
2/3/12, 07:44 PM
#29
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I totally understand why someone might prefer the Camaro. I don't prefer it, but I get it. I think it's pretty **** good looking and it's really a throw back to the, "OLD DAYS."
It's got a big torque motor and the zl is going to be a great car. I have to believe that the better cars our beloved Ford makes, the more we push Chevy to improve. Conversely the more Chevy improves the better Fords will be. I can't wait til ford comes out with a new halo car which stomps the zr1 vette.
I absolutely don't get why Ford is continually behind Chevy in the muscle car sales. It seems like it should be a back and forth kind of thing. But, I'll just enjoy my lil' 5.0 and hope that those who choose brand x enjoy it.
It's got a big torque motor and the zl is going to be a great car. I have to believe that the better cars our beloved Ford makes, the more we push Chevy to improve. Conversely the more Chevy improves the better Fords will be. I can't wait til ford comes out with a new halo car which stomps the zr1 vette.
I absolutely don't get why Ford is continually behind Chevy in the muscle car sales. It seems like it should be a back and forth kind of thing. But, I'll just enjoy my lil' 5.0 and hope that those who choose brand x enjoy it.
2/4/12, 10:11 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by 1992chpb4c
To me, GM still holds the trophy for 1st place on powertrains(engines and transmissions)
2/4/12, 12:12 PM
#31
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http://www.smedingperformance.com/ch...orsepower.html
I prefer the Mustang but respect the Camaro. American is American... when there's so much rice to be eat.
2/4/12, 12:22 PM
#32
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Boss and GT500 are 7-800hp now? I was comparing the LSx series back in 1998-2002. The anemic 4.6 was/is not in the same league imo. Like was said before, the terminator and Mach 1 changed the game. I like both cars and I like hp no matter where it comes from.
2/4/12, 01:18 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by 1992chpb4c
Boss and GT500 are 7-800hp now? I was comparing the LSx series back in 1998-2002. The anemic 4.6 was/is not in the same league imo. Like was said before, the terminator and Mach 1 changed the game. I like both cars and I like hp no matter where it comes from.
2/4/12, 01:46 PM
#34
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Well, I was going to wait for a '13 but I decided that at the end of the day, I just wanted my old car back (Base 2011 V6) .. that being said, you can count me among those January numbers!
Sure it's an automatic, but I get to drive her all year long!
Sure it's an automatic, but I get to drive her all year long!
2/4/12, 03:16 PM
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Say what you will about the 4.6 - but 300+HP out of that little 281 block is proof that OHC beats OHV. And proves Colin Chapman's quote of "what happens above the cylinder is more important than what happens below".
Only independent control of intake from exhaust cams will give you the max output across the rpm band.
Last edited by cdynaco; 2/4/12 at 03:44 PM.
2/4/12, 03:39 PM
#37
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The '96-'98 Cobra engines were known for their strong blocks that could support high horsepower, although the DOHC engine was more "exotic" in that time horizon. They were rated at 305hp at the peak. That really was the first game changer for Mustang.
2/4/12, 03:47 PM
#39
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Was that Cobra 4.6 generally the first US production V8 with DOHC?
2/4/12, 03:58 PM
#40
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What does the location of the cam have to do with emissions? OHC design is improved for power, efficiency and higher rpm.
Say what you will about the 4.6 - but 300+HP out of that little 281 block is proof that OHC beats OHV. And proves Colin Chapman's quote of "what happens above the cylinder is more important than what happens below".
That VVT has the same limitations as Ford's SOHC VCT. Actually more limitations because of GM's use of a single cam for both banks.
Only independent control of intake from exhaust cams will give you the max output across the rpm band.
Say what you will about the 4.6 - but 300+HP out of that little 281 block is proof that OHC beats OHV. And proves Colin Chapman's quote of "what happens above the cylinder is more important than what happens below".
That VVT has the same limitations as Ford's SOHC VCT. Actually more limitations because of GM's use of a single cam for both banks.
Only independent control of intake from exhaust cams will give you the max output across the rpm band.
Lets take 2 vehicles(this should start a pissing match);
2002 Mustang auto
2002 Camaro auto
and you were allowed to do the following mods only, headers, exhaust, stall, cam, and 3.73 gears.
Which in your mind would be cheaper and what kind of a time slip can be had out of the 4.6l. I know what the Camaro can run with the mods but I honestly dont know on the Mustang. Sorry guys, but I have seen plenty of slow Gt's out here in Phoenix from 1994-2002. Seen plenty of wicked Terminator's though.