lol I read the entire camaro5 thread and its simply amazing haha. I swear people are idiots.

 

 

The white really shows off the Camaro's bulk. Every time I see a 2010 Camaro on the street I am in awe -- at the size of that thing. It's huge and it looks it! Just amazing. I think in a few years folks are going to look at those cars and wonder "what were they thinking?" It looks like a 40 year old overweight man made up trying to look like a high school kid ...and it's not cool. It's a caricature/cartoon of the original.

Re handling, I wrote a short commentary on this that pretty well summarizes what the pro's think. For anyone who's interested, you can find it here:

The Last Word on the Mustang Live Axle

Here's one excerpt:

Jones, on the other hand, looks worn out by the Camaro. "It's a pig," he says bluntly of the Camaro SS. "The brakes are much better, but it just won't turn. The [2010] Mustang is a lot more fun to drive. The Mustang is very predictable and real forgiving," he says. "It's a car that you can hustle." --- Automobile Magazine

 

I like this one best...

Not only is the 2011 Mustang GT happy to turn into a corner, once you're flirting around with the apex you won't find yourself making loads of corrections. Put another way, the suspension is able to handle whatever you throw at it, and the steering feel is good enough that you only have to measure and cut once. As far as the never ending live rear end vs. independent suspension argument goes, we're saying the following: The 2011 Ford Mustang GT sports the very best solid rear axle in the world. We'd rather have the best solid axle than a mediocre multi-point rear. Hint, hint, Chevy. 'Nuff said. --- AutoBlog

 

Can't argue with tons of road tests & comparisons, but those 'camaro5" guys will deny it anyway
My favorite quote:

 

Jesus I wanted to go punch a few of those rednecks in the mouth after that. The amount of stupidity flowing over there is like a Joe Dirt marathon.

I doubt anyone over there has the seat time in both cars under spirited driving to make any legitimate comparison about the driving that has any credibility.

 

I hate reading over there. I feel myself getting dumber... aloud instead of allowed , their there they're and your vs. you're . I hate that no one uses spell check when they mistype a "b" instead of an "n" or "s" instead of a "d"

I know my grammar is far from perfect, but ****...

 

 

I've had a lot of cars with IRS. This 2011 V-6 is my 5th Mustang but its the first one i've owned since 1986. I'm shocked by how nice the ride is. Its so quiet (no road noise) and smooth. The ride is better than my cousins 320 (not sure of the number) Mercedes Sport. The ride seems to me to be just as good if not better than my Dad's 2010 Taurus Limited.

Every road test i have read or seen video's of, has the Mustang pulling higher 'g' numbers than the Camaro. Enough said.

 

After spending numerous hours in both the C5 Camaro SS and the 2010/2011 GTs, as well as the 05-09 S197s, the 2011 IS the best handling of the bunch IMO. I've been fortunate enough to throw an '08, '11, and 2010 SS around the track and even still, stock for stock, the 5.0 is the top dog of that group.

I get irritated that these guys can sit over there and magazine race, call the car an "import" (if we want to get technical, the Camaro is more of an import being built in ON than the Mustang), say that the motor is an import, but the IRS is not. No one bothers to bring up the equally archaic leaf spring setup in the Corvette either, but why? Seems like all those days of reading Motor Trend on the ****ter has given them all the info they need to make a decision, aside from real world experience with the vehicle.

/rant.

 

Yet they dismiss MT when they picked the Stang over the Camaro... "How much did Ford pay for that..."

 

And don't forget the pushrods and oversized engine ...

I wouldn't bother getting my blood pressure up by reading their forum. They seem to be mostly a gathering of Camaro fanboys creating their own reality rather than a group of mature car enthusiasts who are interested in the Camaro.

Here's what Motor Trend wrote about the 2010 Camaro in their 2011 Mustang GT vs 2010 Camaro SS vs 2010 Challenger SRT8 comparison:

... most editors agreed the styling of the Camaro car has grown old quickly, or at least it isn't compelling enough to make us forgive the huge penalties the cartoonish proportions exact on the packaging.

The Normandy pillbox visibility and redwood-trunk A-pillars make it difficult to look ahead through left-turn apexes, the gauge fonts and location make them hard to read, and the exaggerated and oversized steering wheel rim and shifter make the driver feel small (aren't these cars supposed to do the opposite?).

The Mustang feels like a scalpel; the Camaro a hammer. Camaro feels like a concept car or a toy. Fun in a big plastic Lego blocks kinda way, but certainly not the kind of place you'd like to spend a lot of time. It's the one I'd want to rent for a weekend trip, not live with. (ouch!)

The galloping-away winner this time out is the Ford Mustang GT. It's simply the one pony car most of us covet, and it's the one that hews closest to the original concept of a lightweight (they weren't called draft-horse cars, after all), nimble body and chassis choc-full-o' V-8 muscle. You can see out of it, you get a nice view of the hood and the driving line you're trying to trace, and the engine sounds better than the radio.

Until Chevy or Dodge tweaks a substantial engine, chassis, or body part, the Ford Mustang GT is the reigning V-8 Ponycar champion of the universe. See you next season.

Here's what Car and Driver said of the 2011 Mustang:

...It’s utterly fabulous, a 7000-rpm cavalry charge that generates incredibly smooth, linear thrust across its broad rev band. Were you to paint the cam lids red and stick on a chrome trident, most Maserati owners would never know the difference. Yes, it’s that good.

This V-8 is major evolutionary step for Ford, perhaps the best gasoline-burner the company has ever produced. It twists the tach needle quickly and without vibration but with a roar so menacing it makes the Camaro SS sound like a pickup truck.

Last year, a 2010 Mustang beat a Camaro and Challenger in a comparison test based largely on its handling merits, and the new model is even better. It turns sharply and holds a precise trajectory through a turn. Although the rear end remains a live axle, the body isn’t tossed off course by pitching pavement or camber changes. In matchups with the independently sprung Camaro, we’ve come away lauding Ford’s decision to stick with the live axle. They have made it work, and if it saves weight and the customer money, so much the better.

And Inside Line wrote of the 2011 Mustang:

Truly impressive manners from a live-axle car. Balance is good as is typical with recent Mustangs, but there's more than that. There's a true sense of what's happening at the wheels with this Mustang, which provides ample driver confidence. And it's better than the independently sprung Camaro in both tests. Ford is doing something right.

I have many other similar excerpts I could post but you all get the point. I wonder if the guys in the Camaro forum read much. If they did, they'd see some of the articles with the above excerpts and have discussions about real world cars, not ones made up in their own forum.

 

Mike, don't worry, I won't. I guess it just surprises me how much ignorance runs rampid over there. Those "car guys" aren't really into testing the data without bias to get their results, they just go by theoretical numbers and that's good enough for them. I challenge each of them to drive to a Ford dealer and have them take one out for a test drive, then come back and challenge it. Hell, Ford should do a "Swap Your Ride" campaign with just Camaro5 owners.

...Or we could see them on Forum Wars and show them what we can really do with our cars.

 

You know they wouldn't dare step into a Mustang anyway.

 

I looks like a fat chick bending forward.

 

The interesting thing to me is it seems Ford is building cars across the board that are still relevant and appealing 3 or 4 years after introduction. Most people I know still think the 2005's Mustangs look fresh and new whereas the Camaros look dated and cartoonish just a year and a half after introduction.

This is why GM may not make it. Toyota, for all their shortcomings lately, has always made cars that still looked good 7 or 8 years even when new models came out to replace them. Ford has figured that out. That's why Ford will take its rightful place back atop the car world in the next 3-4 years in total sales. GM is still searching for the right style/design to give the company a sustainable identity. The don't have it down yet. The only car they've gotten right is the new Malibu. Other than that, GM is still in the wilderness.

Mustangs will outsell Camaros 2 to 1 in the next 12 months. This will prompt Chevy to totally redesign the Camaro for 2012 or 13. They'll get about 3 model years out of the current car, whereas Ford is going to get almost ten years out of the 2005+ Mustangs which have "evolved" versus been totally redesigned. Maybe GM will get it right eventually, but they'll probably go out of business first.

Message to GM: Rushing cartoonish-looking concept cars with crappy build quality to production will make a big splash and sell early, but if you don't build sustainable platforms and have to re-invent the wheel every 2 or 3 years, you're not going to make it as a company...

 

Hahahaha!

 

I'm with you. I test drove a 2011 Mustang GT several weeks ago (at Lance Cunningham in Knoxville) and, honestly, the thing rode and handled every bit as nicely as my 2010 BMW 3-Series. I don't really understand the gripe with the 2011 Mustang's brakes, either. My 2007 Mustang GT's stock brakes were pathetic; the 2011 GT's non-Brembo binders are excellent, and the Brembo's are even better!

 

Camaro has been selling at the rate of 100k per year. Mustang has been well below that until last month (with the new powertrains combined with HUGE discounts on 2010s). I have little doubt that Camaro will slow down over the next 12 months, and the new powertrains will likely help Mustang, but 2 to 1? No. Would gladly make an e-wager with ya on that one.

And update? Sure. Total redesign? Not till the 6th Gen comes out, which will likely be 2014 at the VERY earliest, and probably 2015.

 

Ok, maybe not 2 to 1, but Mustangs will take substantial market share back from the Camaros. I'll take the bet at 3 to 2 over the next 12 months. The only reason Camaros are selling so well is because of the substantial power advantage and the initial appeal of the new body style. The body style's appealing is quickly fading and the 2011 5.0 closes the power gap. There's no way Chevy sells another 100,000 Camaros in the next 12 months without giving them away. The objective muscle car shopper is going to buy a Mustang with equal power, better handling, and a tremendously better interior.

You may also be right about the 6th Gen Camaro not coming until 2014, but it won't be because the current generation is still relevant by then. It will be because GM can't afford to push up the redesign from a cost standpoint.

If GM doesn't roll out a new Camaro by then, 2013 Mustangs WILL outsell 2013 Camaros 2 to 1--take that to the bank. GM will be lucky to sell 25,000 Camaros in 2013 if they don't substantially modify/update the car before then.