'66 in what looks to be antique bronze (not a very common color)... NICE!

First of all, almost nothing in life is plain and simple and no European cars are not superior.

What you have done is hand pick a few high end luxury brands, i.e. Mercedes, Audi and BMW and then mistakenly apply the production methods used at those companies to depict "all" brands in Europe as being like them. Anyone in Europe who has owned a Peugeot in the last decade would laugh in your face. They are horrible cars, poorly built, ugly and certain to have issues. In addition cars built by companies like Vauxhall, Fiat, and VolkWagen are by no means better quality than just about anything you'll get from Ford or GM. For that matter Ford of Europe is by no means built to higher standards than Ford of America. And don't even get me started on Land Rover, pure junk.

Now, just because some European luxury car like an Audi has the finest Muldovian leather seats and brushed titanium accents about the interior does not mean "high quality". It just means they used expensive material. Ford and GM could just as easily put expensive materials like that in cars like the Fusion or Impala thus causing the retail price to go up. Expensive material does not equal better car. Here is how you see it

Now anyone with a modicum of common sense can understand that under the pursuit of "good craftsmanship" it follows that a vehicle that is finely crafted would not have 147 problems per 100 vehicles placing it well below the industry average, and yet this is precisely where Audi ranks out.
For the record, Volkswagen has 174 problems per 100 vehicles, just barely above Chrysler and 5th from the bottom of the list of 33 brands.

I'm not going to try and claim that US domestic brands are beyond reproach. Certainly Chrysler / Fiat has a lot of improvement to make. Ford and GM, however, build cars that on average are "better crafted" than Audi and BMW which you claim are so much better.

It's okay to have a favorite car, but just don't expect everyone to accept your biased point of view.

Almost nothing irritates someone who has bought a very expensive European luxury car more than knowing that the guy who bought a Ford has a car that by and large is better built. lol

you guys are not going to win an argument over which car is superior or not, domestic or european. It's a pointless argument so stop wasting your time typing out "facts" based on your OPINIONS, and trying to convince the other that your opinion is better or more right than the other.

back on topic.

3 point 7,

When was the last time an american company ever had success in formula 1? Everything from f1 trickles down into passenger cars eventually... drive by wire, ceramic brakes etc... etc..

All European technology my friend. What are the most advanced high end cars in the world? Bugatti, Pagani, Koenigsegg, Ferrari, Mclaren, Lamborghini etc.

And yes Mercedes builds more solid, higher end vehicles at any price point than americans. Even with volkswagen, go stand on the door of a golf, then go stand on the door of your mustang. I dare you... just be sure to take video.

Anyways im done.

Hey xtc, when Koenigsegg first started out they used a modified 4.6 liter V8 sourced from, wait for it, . . . Ford. You know, the Mustang engine. lol

American car companies do not compete in F1 because F1 is not popular in America. Plenty of innovative automotive technology has been developed outside of the F1 proving ground. Yet another narrow minded take on the issue.

As for standing on the door of car. Why? So what if some 300 pound lard butt can put his weight on the door. It has nothing to do with the car doing what a car needs to do. It's kind of like saying "Hey I have a hammer that can used as a shovel." Just buy a shovel.

Trying? Trying? Man, Burton, you are hard to please - that thing has got a completely new motor, built in a manner (flat plane crank) that no manufacturer has ever tried at this type of price point, with a setup that should be every bit the equal of the Z/28 (a fantastic car) or better, meaning it can keep up with anything short of a Z06 Corvette, including any BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. available for less than 100K. I am so excited for the GT-350 because it should be more than just a plaything for 60 year old guys on the weekends, like almost every Shelby GT-500 I see around here. It's a driver's car, not a straightline hero, and I love, love, love that.

Yeah, the "cram a big engine into a small chassis" definition of a muscle car is over, but that was mostly over a LONG time ago. However, we're in an era where 300 horsepower is commonplace and 400 not that uncommon. I don't want one either, but there's no denying the performance that electrics and hybrids like the BMW i8 will deliver. There's always going to be performance - the way we get there is just changing.

LOL Kyle, you make a good point... in fact so good that, I need to do more research on the GT350. Shows you how much I know :banghead: I didn't know about the flat plane crank. All I knew was it was going to be a N/A V8. In my heart of hearts, I've always wanted a Shelby and since those were always blown V8's, the fact that this was N/A got me disappointed. Couple that with how my test drive of the S550 went, I was not keeping my hopes up.

However, after what you said above, not only do I need to do more research on the GT350, but I will keep a candle lit for it, and here's to hoping that the GT350 stays "RAW" just how I like my cars.


I guess when I say "muscle car" I mean how my current '12 feels and drives. That's what I like. If it's a muscle car, great. If it's not a muscle car, fine. Whatever it is called, I love it :) The S550 is not like my current and feels more like the "other" cars I have. In fact, it feels closer to my Acura than my Mustang..... weird I know.

I agree with your statement on performance and how we "get there". It will be interesting to see what the future holds.

Thats cool man. Bringing up one engine choice from one company in its developmental stages is irrelevant. Tell me, which engine do they use now?

And which engine do you have in your mustang?

A mazda v6 is it?

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/lol_gif.gif

Yep the 3.7 is derived from a Mazda engine. So what. Even that engine was based on the Cyclone engine family that was developed by Ford, not Mazda, going back as far as the early 1960's. None of this changes the fact that the at least two of the three European luxury brands that you think are so great are pretty much substandard when it comes to build quality. That's not an opinion, its just a fact based on proven data over time. I know that's difficult for you accept because you have this silly biased point of view about "european brands" and have a hard time accepting that American companies are fully capable of building quality cars and trucks.

By the way, how about those Pagani, Bugatti, Koenigsegg and Lamborghini Formula One cars? Oh wait.

What happened to this thread... All cars are built for a purpose. There are tons of arguments for or against. Most cars today are a vehicle manufacturer from parts from different company's. it is not like the old days of manufactures making all the parts for the car. What aer you buying the car for? What it intent? That's what makes a better car. If you want speed then ... If you want luxery then... If you just want transportation...

One thing you will notice is that most all cars will last forever if you do the maintenance.. Some cars require a lot more maintenance than others... If you don't do the maintance the car will not last long and you will have problems. Taht is what gives people a bad tast for a certain car.. Audio vw almost same car. My daughter had one the parts are 10 times the cost of an American car and they take a ton of maintenance. She got ride of it because she could not afford the maintenance..

SO what about the new mustang to the old.....

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/imag...ne-23207_1.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/5ldikg.gif

Are you trying to make some new ridiculous point xtc? I'm certain this will come as a shock to you but human beings quit communicating by way of just pictures not long after they quit living in caves.

Seriously guys. Enough. Go take your back and forth mumbo on your own thread. You're ruining the purpose of this thread. That's not cool at all. I developed this thread for the purpose of a healthy discussion about the S550 versus the S197. I and others don't give a rats you know what you guys think about euro and domestic cars. I'll have the mods step if your nonsense continues.

The thread is played out. Even when posters do give their opinion of the S550 you don't really want to hear it. You've already made up your mind about what you think about the two cars and no opinion given here will have any affect on your point of view. Conversations move from point to point and subject to subject. It's the nature of human social interaction. I already gave you my point of view on the S550 and you didn't want to hear it so now I'm talking to XTC. There's plenty of space here for other posters to leave their opinion on the car if they so choose. Not that it will matter because you don't really want to hear them.

I think its because the forum is so dead, people are looking for something to talk about. Anything. So threads meander sometimes... that's nothing new on this or any forum.

Besides, what else can be said that hasn't already on this and the other threads about S550 v S197?? :wonder: The horse has been thoroughly beaten! ;)

Dangit cdynaco, just when I want to be mad at you, you go and start making perfectly good sense.

Don't make assumptions about me, or what I do or don't want to hear.

I'm not looking to get my opinion or viewpoint changed. I'm looking to just hear what other people have to say ABOUT THE TOPIC AT HAND. It's called a "discussion". Hence the thread. I have no problem with healthy discussions, provided they're relevant and ON TOPIC.

I'm no longer asking for YOUR point of view of the S550 as you stated because I already heard it. I want to hear others. So get off your podium.

I especially don't want to hear about your opinions or banter about what you think of domestics versus euro cars. I'll state it again, that's NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. So get off of it. Go make your own thread and discuss your points there. Not here.

There's nothing stopping anyone from posting opinions about the S550 on this thread. As cydnaco correctly pointed out its a topic that's been discussed into oblivion. Face reality, if XTC and I were not discussing his opinion of european cars than nobody would be posting anything on this thread. You should be thankful that someone is actually posting at all on this thread as far as I'm concerned.

Quit the bickering and stirring the pot & antagonizing each other. And that means keep it on the topic at hand of the thread.