I did not realize this. It astonishes me that the Mustang sales are lower than the Camaro. It is the superior car imo but what do I know. Ford is dead set on making money on everything or they kill it. Nothing wrong with that. I get the feeling that they dont car about volume either. They want to make money.

The Ranger outsold the Taurus, Mustang, Flex, and Fiesta in its last year. It went out with a bang and Ford has killed it. One can only wonder what it would sell like if it was updated. I will miss this little truck.

I got off topic a bit but the 10 Mustang did not have the power. It still had the 4.6 if Im correct. 300 hp going up against the new LS3 from Gm was a hard sell. I can understand sales being low for that year but not now. Im puzzeled why sales are so low when I beleive its the better car. You can only say pent up demand for so long. Kudos to Gm for the sales title but the Camaro does not appeal to me what so ever. Too heavy, hard to see out of, too cartoonish, and a horible interior. Its not for me. Evidently, Im in the minority.

I get the feeling that Ford is not concerned. I could be wrong but I think they are comfortable with the sales and are making money. I want them to make money. I just hate to see a screw up on the Mustang like the Mt82. Its the only flaw in the car imo. I think by now most of the issues are worked out but it still concerns me some.

 

315hp

My theory - market segment size...only so many buyers with 3 competitors vying for share

If the issues are managed, then country of manufacture should not matter.

 

It's just that I have 15K hard miles on a MT82 with no problems.

But I know how to drive a manual transmission.

But the SN95 didn't show such a big sales drop off in the final years.

It was a $50B bailout loan, and the government received stock (which is considerably down in price from the IPO).

Former stockholders were wiped out. Unsecured bondholders were wiped out, and secured bondholders were ignored in bankruptcy court.

Of course, the UAW came out very well. Investors and (probably) the taxpayer's got screwed.

I liked my 2010 GT Track Pack 3:73. It was a great car. I sold it after I bought a 2011 GT.

 

The luck part was his timing and fortunately his timing was spot on.

 

Like that saying... "the harder I work the luckier I get".

The herd always wants to attribute the leader's success to "luck". lol

 

50 billion more than Ford took. The company went bankrupted. Belly up and they were reorganizing the new GM. The dealerships who represent GM was trying to price guage the public. Despicable! Perhaps if GM made quality cars in the 80, 90's, and even early 2000's the company wouldn't of filed bankrupted. Of course GM would of had to lower paying the high salaries and benefits to workers when there product wasn't selling. How about producing cars that wasn't a piece of $hit

 

Mulally is the herd? He said in an interview with the WSJ that they were lucky not me.

 

My point is, regardless of the comment - which is in hindsight - Mulally (the leader) did the prudent thing in 06 - before there was any hint whatsoever of the Great Implosion - which is leverage Ford's assets to raise capital and use that capital to restructure the company for decades of future success across the entire globe. His gutsy move was not about weathering a drastic downturn (that no one foresaw), but about re-positioning the company with "The Way Forward" plan for stability and profitability. That's leadership. That's why he was hired.

But now so many (the herd) seem to only say 'he was lucky' and seem to only focus on the fact that Ford's leveraging helped them avoid a bailout. That's not what the plan was about in 06. "The Way Forward" phrase was coined a few years before "The Great Implosion".

 

Prudent is fine but Ford had in no way figured on the melt down and the resulting credit freeze.

Anyways love them or hate them GM and the economy didnt have much choice in the matter.

 

Understood. But Mulally's action plan was implemented before there was any sign that subprime's were going to collapse together simultaneously, that LIBOR would spike when England & Europe suddenly didn't trust US assets, that money market funds would break the buck for the first time in history, and that dominoes would fall.

He made the prudent decision as a business manager wanting to restructure the company two years before. The economy was still singing in 06 remember? Neither housing or the markets had even peaked yet. Much less fall off the cliff. Remember?

GM had plenty of choice in the matter. They could have hired a true leader and raised cash while the raisin' was good and restructure.

1.1.05 to current, S&P 500 index

 

No doubt he's done an excellent job and will be tough to replace.

Hey I'm familiar with those charts...

 

Here are the numbers released by Ford in prior years, remember, these are calender years not model years. As both the original SN95 and the New Edge aged, sales decreased as did production. 1998/99 and 2003/04 were the models heaviest incentive years, mostly selling previous MY's unsold stock to clear inventory for the new model. You will see this happen with the 5th Gen Camaro as well when and if they ever do a refresh.

You will notice that each body styles most radical performance variants were produced

1994: 123,198 (Numbers contain sales of both new and prior models)
1995: 185,986
1996: 126,483
1997: 100,254
1998: 170,642 (Mid-model refresh)
1999: 126,067
2000: 218,525
2001: 155,162
2002 142,404
2003 153,134
2004 141,907 (Numbers contain sales of both new and prior models)

Here are prior years, notice the dip and then the sales spike before every refresh.

71:*149,678
72: 125,093
73: 134,867 (Redesign)
74:*385,993
75: 188,575
76: 187,567
77: 153,173
78: 192,410 (Redesign)
79:*369,936
80: 271,322
81: 181,552
82: 130,418
83: 120,873
84: 135,678
85: 156,514
86: 224,410 (Refresh)
87: 159,145
88: 211,225
89: 209,769
90: 128,189
91: 98,737
92: 79,280
93: 114,228 (Redesign)

You will likely see the same pattern come 2013/2014 for the Mustang. Final years sales will consist of 2012, 2013 and 2014 cars with heavy rebates on 2012s and 2013s... As for the SN95, I have a hard time comparing the sales of the original SN95 to the New Edge. To me, the cars were drastically different and the New Edge was a huge success... It in fact was the destroyer of the Camaro and Firebird and brought forth the legendary Terminators that are still feared today... No matter how good the SN95 NE did at the end, the wheels of the S197 were already rolling by 2002 and initial sales of the S197 were fantastic... but the 2013 S197 is still almost a spitting image of the 2005 as was the 1st Gen Mustangs... The 1970 Mustang was, in my opinion, one of the best looking Mustangs ever... but... it was the worst in sales... Some would suggest that everyone who wanted a Mustang already had one by then... same goes with the S197.

As Ford continues to increase the quality and longevity of the Mustang, it will become harder to convince people to buy new cars... I tried to convince a 2005 GT owner to sell his car and get a 2013... He said "Why, I love this car"... Later I realized that his purchase went far beyond brand loyalty, the purchase was very personal... Ask me what it would take for me to sell my 2011, I would buy a 2013 but not at the expense of a trade in...

 

Funny how the Mustang II intro has the largest number on that list. I've said it before bring back the Cobra II.

 

I had a 1976 Cobra II, to this day... I regret selling it. The fastest 1/4 mile car I have owned to date was a 1976 BBF Mustang II... They were great for drag racing but a big block is too much work... a built 351 would have been fine.

 

The stang sales numbers will overtake Camaro once the new 15 plus comes out. Majority of stang owners of cars 2005 plus are waiting for the new design to come out. People now a days are holding onto their cars longer because there paid off and with the economy not being great. Being that its so close to the new design many stang customers are holding off for the 15 model. Why trade a low millage 2008 or 09 stang for a 12 or 13 stang when the new design15 is right around the corner. Every time you trade a car early in, people loose money. The Camaro has been selling because no one has a 2005 plus Camaro. People knew there was a new Camaro coming out and they held onto there current cars until the new Camaro came out.

For those who waited for the 15 and don't like it. Those stang owners will sell there older stangs and buy a pre owned 12, 13, 14 stang. Sales will sky rocket then. Also, look at the advertising that GM had for the new Camaro. How much real advertising did Ford have for the 11 stang. Not much. I saw one tv commercial about the 11 stang and not that often. One can tell by the 10 stang sales majority of people didn't know Ford was increasing the hp in the v6 and v8.

According to the sales numbers listed on this forum 2005 mustang sales were in excess of 160,000 sales for the year. By the time the 15 stang is out the 05's will be 10 years old, average 120 to 150k miles on them. By then the 160,000 stang owners will be ready to buy a new 15 stang. Same with the 06 stang owners. On top of the first time stang owner on the 2015. Mustang will be back on top. Until the 15 comes out sales for the stang will decline each year from the previous years until the 15 comes out. The 12, 13 and 14 will have less sales than the 2011's.

Unless Ford is going to offer insane incentives for the 12, 13, and 14 stangs majority of consumers are going to hang onto there current stangs and wait for the 15

 

Does it emotionally hurt some here if one's sales are below another's? I don't get it. I like not seeing that many 5.0's out there.

 

I wont argue there, GM was/probably still is in need of good leadership

 

I guess it may hurt some here if sales fall low enough to where Ford stopped producing the stang. Highly doubtful so I would imagine no one is hurt. The higher number in Mustang sales the more trash talk us men can talk about. Its a guy thing.

 

The best part of all this is that we are re-living the muscle car wars of the 60's and early 70's again. I was young enough to have had the oppertunity to buy a few of those cars back then, and to read through this thread makes me feel young again to see it happening all over!

Love them all, but my 2011 Mustang, dollar for dollar is still king to me.

 

Thank goodness for competition. It keeps companies striving to do things better. Love those pony wars. I glad GM upped there game on the Camaro. It finnaly got Ford to up there's. The stang sat for years with minimal upgrades of performance. When Fords back was up against the wall with the Camaro, they answered with the awesome 2011 plus.