BRENSPEED

After tons of dyno and track testing, our turn key Brenspeed Stage 2 Power Package is ready for the public. Items included in this awesome kit include;

Steeda's 95MM intake is the highest quality intake made to date. We will program your X3 programmer for your vehicle and provide you with the most power and torque possible. Our Brenspeed tuned X3 programmers are shipped with 3 custom Brenspeed tunes. We start with a custom tune that has the fastest throttle response the 5.0 engine can provide, maximum Horsepower and Torque throughout the entire RPM range, many changes to the Ford torque management and Adaptive Learning tables, Increased REV and Speed limits to take advantage of your new found power, and for those of you who have automatic transmission be ready for tire chirping shifts at wide open throttle yet crisp clean shifts for mild driving conditions. We then take your custom tune that we create and modify for 3 octanes of fuel so youc an run regular unleaded fuel or premium fuel.

Kooks stainless steel headers with a catted H or X-pipe. The headers are 1 3/4" and made of high quality 304 stainless steel. The mid pipe is 3" and made of stainless steel as well. All header hardware and gaskets are included.

Steeda / Borla stainless steel mufflers that feature a lifetime warranty! These mufflers have a great sound and improve the look of the rear of the car tremendously over the factory exhaust. They also feature a 4” rolled tip.

Optimum power and fuel mileage is found using premium fuel. These items have FREE UPS SHIPPING TO THE 48 STATES!

Our our test cars, we have seen gains in the upper 70 HP from stock show room condition vs. our Stage 2 Power Pack.

Check it out on our website...
http://www.brenspeed.com/coyotestage2a.html

Stage 2 Dyno Graph
http://www.brenspeed.com/2011kooks.html
click on thumbnail below picture of headers.

fossy207

Granted I am new to the world of Mustangs, but all my research thus far seems to show that with this list of mods we should expect around 40 or 45 rwhp. 72 rwhp from intake, exhaust and tune sounds too good to be true. Am I missing something here?

jedikd

I'm assuming flywheel HP is being quoted.

70MACH1OWNER

Aaah...that is not Brenspeed's style unless these new motors are not up to stuff........... I was at Brenspeed's last week for other reason's and asked Brent about supercharging the new 5.0. In a nut shell they have the same rwhp limit as the 3V engine because while Ford gave them good piston's they still gave them a cast crank and powdered metal rods.

tom281

I think they're giving flywheel numbers now because of the big differences between dynos, weather, altitudes, etc.

AK 5.0

Read this post first. It will help everyone understand a bit better so we do not have another argument over silly numbers.


https://themustangsource.com/f726/br...486889/index2/

and a quote from brenspeed

I guess it is time for me to clear the tension.

Yes our kit is advertised as a 60 hp kit because it is one. We sell this kit to many of our local Ford dealerships. To them, it is called our Premium Fuel package. It takes their showroom 5.0 with 87 octane, which is very typical, and detuned factory Ford tune, to our premium fuel custom tune, developed on our in house Dynojet chassis dyno. These custom tunes were developed on our car from the factory floor on 87 octane because our car came factory with 87 octane. From there we added all of the parts included in our stage 1 performance pack and finished our custom tuning on premium fuel. The 60 HP gains stated are true and are crank horsepower gains taking account a 20% drivetrain loss. If you refer to our dyno graphs posted in our Intake/tuner package, you will see our gains are legit and it clearly states FACTORY SHOW ROOM STOCK vs. STEEDA CAI AND TUNER PACKAGE on the graph. It also states ambient temps in the dyno cell were 92 degrees. With our PREMIUM FUEL PACKAGE vs. FACTORY SHOW ROOM CONDITION, we picked up an average of 35 RWHP gain PEAK TO PEAK and 42 RWHP gains AT 5,300 RPM. Our 2011 stock laid down 354.68 rwhp and 392.43 RWHP on our PREMIUM FUEL TUNE / STEEDA CAI. That was before the axleback's were even released. Following the release of Steeda's axleback, we retested the same car in the same weather and saw 5-10hp gains with the axleback's and splice in X. We have always under rated or packages, be it a CAI/Tuner package to one of our turn key supercharger packages, due to individual differences car to car. We have even seen somewhat substantial differences on STOCK 5.0's. No where in our add does it state 60+ RWHP gains. If it is not stated then why would it be, when Ford released the 5.0 numbers at 412 HP did you assume it was RWHP, No. I will tell you that these engines are very under rated from Ford and are making far more than the 412. Unlike the 4.6L's gains are being seen from axlebacks Which is why we rated the kit at a reasonable 60 HP gains. Many people have stated that Fords performance tunes are far less to be desired when compared to any of the very sucessful speed shops, take the Shelby GT's and Bullitt's for example, I have never got a complaint from a customer saying that the Shelby or Ford performance tune performed better or even equal for that matter.

If you feel that FRPP is the only way to go, then go for it. If this package is not for you, fine, no bad feelings here.

Our 2011 6sp gained an additional 27 RWHP with the addition of Kook's Longtubes and Catted X yesterday and made a 12.01 @ 118 MPH pass last night at the track. We feel with the addition of a taller gear (still have factory 3.55''s), it will be a high 11 second car with simple bolt ons and approtiate tires. Not bad for a small speed shop.

We are a very sucessful Performance Speed Shop who strives for perfection through countless hours of R&D both at the track, on the dyno. We do this by testing every product we sell before we put it on the market. I don't think our shop got to this point by making false clams or by putting our customers engines at risk with our custom tuning.

Follow the link below for our dyno graph proving our claims.
http://www.brenspeed.com/3000gt11steeda.html

BRENSPEED

The above post is correct. We are showing gains for cars coming in as fresh off the lot 5.0's vs. a Brenspeed Stage 2 power pack install. Tom is exactly correct in his statement.

If you have any question's feel free to ask, I am here to help clear the air.

falhulk

Ok, have you ran the stage 2 package at the drag strip?

MARZ

Actually, the Coyote features a forged steel crank.

Driver72

How are you determining crank hp numbers?

Are you taking your dyno results and adding 20% for drivetrain losses?

If so, I'd hope you'd know two things:
1. The drivetrain losses for a RWD car with a live rear axle is nowhere near 20%. 20-23% is drivetrain losses for an AWD car, not RWD.
The Mustang GT seems to have about 12% drivetrain losses.
2. You can't take the rwhp numbers and add UP for drivetrain losses.
Drivetrain losses are subtracted from flywheel power in percent, flywheel power is not added to wheel power in percent. The math is off that way.

RedCandy5.0

Brenspeed is a business. Their goal is to sell product. The average person knows nothing about rwhp just hp. So would you buy a package that says 40rwhp or 72hp? Would you want to brag that you have 400rwhp or 500hp?
Just look at the amount of new Mustang owners there are now. These guys do not even know what a tune is.
You can not blame Brenspeed for capitalizing on this. Me and you may respect the tuner who is giving the 93 to 93 comparison tests and giving peak rwhp but we are few and in between.

montreal ponies

fossy207

For manufacturers and dealers of aftermarket intake and exhaust equipment, isn't quoting numbers in rwhp generally the accepted norm? Are there others that quote their numbers using flywheel hp?

The other thing that leaves me uncomfortable with this is the whole notion of comparing stock on 87 octane to modified with 91 octane. Isn't the idea to have the before and after be identical except for the mods being sold? Otherwise how do we know how much additional hp is attributed to the mods vs the premium fuel?

tom281

LOL you guys make it sound like they're trying to rip off uneducated buyers. They are clearly saying their gains are measured from factory stock to modified with a dedicated package and have said it is at the flywheel. Although me, you, and most everyone else would rather have rwhp numbers, fact is that dynos are different, conditions are different, drivetrains are different, etc. and the first time any tuner advertises a 40 rwhp gain and some buyer with an auto trans, 4.10 gears, and a Mustang dyno says they only saw a 30 rwhp gain that buyer will be all over the boards saying that the tuner ripped them off.

Just understand what it is that you're buying before you buy it, that's the best advice you can get IMO.

tom281

Wouldn't part of the gain that is achieved be measured from the tune that is supplied, which if you're looking for performance would include a change from base octane to 91 or even 93? Changing the fuel you put in the car isn't going to give you more power; changing the tune for the octane that you use is what gives you the increase. Tuners sell tunes, not fuel.

fossy207

Yeah except there's another thread on this forum which talks about how the 412hp rating on the 5.0 is achieved with 91 Octane fuel, whereas 87 octane on this engine yields around 20hp less.

To those of you saying these guys are being clear that they're comparing their dyno results to a mustang gt with 87 octane, I don't see that stated anywhere on their site: http://www.brenspeed.com/coyotestage2a.html

I'm not trying to be an A-hole here, but it just seems to me there's a lot going on behind the scenes that isn't explicitly pointed out to a potential buyer who comes across this package on their website without reading these threads on this forum (which describe much more detail).

Ltngdrvr

What Brenspeed states is that they are comparing their tune to the way the car comes from the dealer. The dealer puts 87 octane gas in the cars when they deliver them and that is what their base dyno is taken from.

They also do use there extrapolation of the flywheel HP for their ratings, and I may be mistaken, but I think they use a 15% factor on the dyno RWHP reading to extrapolate the flywheel HP.

Driver72

I don't have a problem with them advertising crank hp, but I would like to know how they are determining it.
Because in his post above he stated he is using a 20% drivetrain loss.

And I'm no rocket scientist, but to me ANY tuner, heck actually a couch enthusiast KNOWS that a RWD car does NOT lose 20% of it's power in the drivetrain.

It's just nice if people, and businesses would just be honest and trustworthy.



Well.....if he's taking a dyno plot and then adding 20% to that power figure to determine crank hp, then he's either a tuner that knows how to crack ECU's and extrapolate more power but knows absolutely nothing about drivetrain losses and dynos and therefore shouldn't be tuning, or he's using wrongful data that he KNOWS better in order to hype the marketing to fool the uneducated buyer.
There would be no other reason or validity to do it that way.
You just don't take dyno numbers and ADD a percentage to get to an estimated crank hp.
And you certainly don't account for 20% drivetrain losses in for a RWD car.

He certainly would NOT use 20% drivetrain losses if he did it the correct way and subtracted from an estimated crank hp to get to dyno result would he? That would result in an abnormally low number and make the product look like it's making less power.

The sole advantage of taking a dyno number and ADDING an unrealistic and inflated drivetrain loss percentage to that figure is to boost up the power numbers so one can claim a larger gain in power than what is realistic.
For instance again if he went from 360 rwhp baseline to 410 rwhp after modded, we all know that means 50 rwhp gain.
By taking the 410 rwhp number and ADDING 20% you get 492 crank hp.
But in reality, 410 rwhp on a RWD car would really mean:
466 flywheel - 12% = 410 rwhp

So by ADDING the 20% to a dyno it makes it look like the car has gained 26 hp more than what it REALLY has. Great for marketing and advertising for the business, but the not factual info and hurtful for the customer if/when he learns this.
Almost always in life and especially in business honesty is the best policy.
I would have great reservations doing business with a company who either is unaware of something they SHOULD be aware of with the product they are selling, or especially if they are aware of it and ignore the facts and use creative marketing and advertising tactics that are not correct instead.

The starting with 87 octane as base and using 93 for modded can be worked around, since we all pretty much know you get 10-12+ hp on a factory stock 5.0 from just changing to the higher octane.

Driver72

Are you a moderator or vendor here?
If so, I'd hope you'd know better. Otherwise maybe it's time to brush up on your 2011 5.0 knowledge.

Driver72

That all being said, I'm sure the 72 hp gain he's claiming with by adding 20% to the dyno is not TOO far off considering roughly 12 hp of that is attributable to just going from 87 octane to 93 octane with ZERO other changes to the car.

So if he started with 93 Octane his claim at best would be 60 hp.
Which in incorrect adding 20% to dyno would mean a 50 rwhp increase.
In reality if you remove 12% from an estimated crank hp number to get the 50 rwhp gain he'd of seen, you'd advertise a 57 hp gain for the mods and tune he's selling.

So in conclusion look at it this way.

In his 72 hp gain for his mods you are really getting 57 hp gains.
72 -12 (for the automatic difference between 87 and 93 Octane on a stock car) =
60 - 3 (the difference in ADDING 20% to a dyno plot vs subtracting 12% from an estimated crank figure) =
57 hp

And I can believe a 57 hp gain ( or essentially a 50 rwhp gain) for a intake, headers, exhaust and tune 5.0 if you start on 93 octane as a baseline and use it after modding too.

57 hp (50 rwhp) is respectable for those mods and what I'd expect (all he'd have to do to verify my thoughts is tell me he saw a roughly 60 rwhp gain on the dyno from his stock 87 octane baseline to the 93 octane Stage 2 mods he's selling).