View Poll Results: On a Scale of one to ten How Does the Black Box Affect your Purchase Decision? 1-10
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Big Brother is Here! 2010 Mustang to Be Equipped with BLACK BOX!
11/13/08, 11:58 AM
#1
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Big Brother is Here! 2010 Mustang to Be Equipped with BLACK BOX!
Well Folks looks like the 2010 Stang will Be Black Box Equipped. Any Thoughts on this? Would it Influence Someone Considering an 09 vs 10 Model. I will Post a Poll above. On a Scale of one to ten how would it Affect your Decision to Purchase a 10 or Later Model Mustang in the Future.
UPDATE CHECK POST 12 & 17 Black Box & Sync 911
FYI
UPDATE CHECK POST 12 & 17 Black Box & Sync 911
FYI
Last edited by 05stangkc; 11/13/08 at 02:39 PM.
11/13/08, 12:01 PM
#2
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Any more details? Depending on what it records and who has access to it I would most likley not buy another Mustang or any vehicle equiped with on.
11/13/08, 12:04 PM
#4
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Well Folks looks like the 2010 Stang will Be Black Box Equipped. Any Thoughts on this? Would it Influence Someone Considering an 09 vs 10 Model. I will Post a Poll above. On a Scale of one to ten how would it Affect your Decision to Purchase a 10 or Later Model Mustang in the Future.
11/13/08, 12:09 PM
#5
Cobra R Member
This is Old News. State, Government, Police, Local and Federal Authorities, All would have access to the information stored in the Black Box. It's there to store and record data. In the event of an accident the info can be used against or for you to show speed, braking force, steering angle, etc. But you can't get away from it, it's built into the Engine Control Module.
Last edited by TampaBear67; 11/13/08 at 12:11 PM.
11/13/08, 12:17 PM
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Quote
As Per FORD 2010 MUSTANG NEW FEATURES
EVENT DATA RECORDER { BLACK BOX}
End Quote.
Their Words { Black Box} NEW Features Would Imply it was Not Used in the Past.
I will Dig into Subject Further to Clarify.
FYI
KC
Last edited by 05stangkc; 11/13/08 at 12:20 PM.
11/13/08, 12:58 PM
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Can't be any worse then the Nissan GT-R. If Ford starts voiding the warranty to use normal features then I'll have a problem. They better not expect me to drive my Mustang like a Taurus.
11/13/08, 01:18 PM
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1 | What is an event data recorder (EDR)?
Popularly called a "black box," an event data recorder is a device that records certain information from a vehicle immediately before and/or during a crash — not all crashes but most of the serious ones. Police, crash investigators, and others can download the data from the EDR's memory to help them better understand what happened to the vehicle and how the safety systems performed, and in some cases, help establish culpability. Most EDRs are built into a vehicle's airbag control module and record information about airbag deployment. However, some vehicles also record precrash data, like engine throttle and vehicle speed from the engine control module. Some airbag and engine control modules store only diagnostic trouble codes and whether there was a signal to deploy supplemental restraint systems (i.e. airbags and belt tensioners). These modules aren't considered to have EDRs, so they aren't covered under federal rules. Devices that record vehicle speed before a crash or speed change during impact are defined under federal rules as EDRs.
2 | Are passenger vehicles required to have EDRs?
No. They aren't mandatory but many automakers choose to include them in their cars. In August 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued an EDR rule that will apply to 2013 and later models. The rule standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices defined as EDRs must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats. More advanced EDRs may record additional information from the engine control module, antilock brakes, and other vehicle systems. Federal rules outline as many as 30 extra data elements that advanced EDRs must log. Vehicle manufacturers must publicly share information about how to download EDR data,{{{{{ and they have to include a statement in the owner's manual telling consumers that their vehicle has an EDR}}}}.1
3 | What data do EDRs record?
As of model year 2013, all EDRs must record:1
For EDRs capable of logging more detailed vehicle information, NHTSA requires the devices to record such things as sideways acceleration, forward or rearward acceleration, engine speed, driver steering input, right front passenger safety belt status, engagement of electronic stability control system, antilock brake activity, side airbag deployment time for driver and right front passenger, and seat track positions for both the driver and right front passenger. Occupant size and position for drivers and right front passengers may also be recorded.
5 | What vehicles have EDRs?
NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. By 2005, General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Suzuki were all voluntarily equipping all of their vehicles with EDRs, according to NHTSA's estimates.2 Recent information from vehicle manufacturers indicates that all new passenger vehicles have EDRs, although those EDRs may not include all of the data elements specified in the NHTSA rule.
6 | What kinds of crashes are recorded?
Some EDRs in recent model vehicles can gather information from frontal, side, rear, and rollover impacts. The original EDRs in GM and Ford vehicles collected information only from frontal and rear impacts. Data on side impact crashes can now be downloaded from nearly all 2004 and later GM vehicles with side airbags and some 2001 and later Ford vehicles.
7 | What are the potential uses of the data?
EDRs can provide information about a crash that can't be obtained through more traditional investigation techniques. Police, crash investigators, automakers, insurance adjusters, and highway safety researchers can use this information to analyze what occurred during a crash. The data may help automakers improve occupant restraint systems and vehicle structures.3,4
EDR data may be useful in determining culpability. For example, EDR data from a car involved in an August 2002 crash in Florida showed the vehicle was traveling at 144 mph seconds before it struck another vehicle, killing two passengers. The EDR data were used to convict the driver of manslaughter.5
8 | Do the data have limitations?
Yes, useful as EDR data may be to researchers and others, there are limitations. Most new passenger vehicles don't have advanced EDRs. Their recorders capture only data from airbag crash sensors and may not gather other information such as precrash speed and safety belt usage. Some EDRs restrict data retrieval to the maker of the vehicle.
EDR data may not always survive a crash. The Institute has downloaded data from 13 2001-07 GM models and two 2003-05 Ford models after 40 mph frontal offset crash tests. The EDRs in the GM vehicles accurately recorded precrash speeds, airbag deployment times, and belt use. They also recorded vehicle decelerations during the crashes, but the EDRs in 7 of the 13 cars stopped recording before the crashes ended. The EDRs in the two Ford models recorded airbag deployment times and belt use, but both stopped recording vehicle deceleration data before the crash was over. Likewise, NHTSA reviewed the results of 37 crash tests in vehicles equipped with EDRs and found that the majority of EDRs didn't record the entire crash event.6
Retrieving data from EDRs after a crash can be difficult. During 2002 and 2003, NHTSA investigators couldn't retrieve data in about one-third of their attempts. In some cases, the EDR didn't have any data. In other cases, vehicle damage prevented downloading the data, the owner wouldn't provide access to the EDR, or technical/training issues prevented the downloading of the data for some crashes.7
9 | Who owns the data and who has access?
EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers, and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.5
For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.8
10 | Are ships, planes and trains required to have EDRs?
Yes, some planes, ships, and locomotives are required by federal or international regulations to have EDRs. Beginning in 1958, some commercial planes had to have flight data recorders that recorded five parameters including speed and altitude. The number of data elements has increased since then, and flight data recorders now must track a minimum of 88 parameters.9 Since 1967, planes also have been required to have cockpit voice recorders that maintain the last 30 minutes of pilots' conversations prior to a crash.10
Passenger ships and ships with 3,000 or more gross tonnage built after June 31, 2002, must have a voyage data recorder that records a minimum of 12 hours of data, including the ship's position, speed, and heading.11
The Federal Railroad Administration in July 1993 issued a rule requiring the lead locomotive of any train operated faster than 30 mph to have an in-service event recorder that logs, among other things, the speed, direction, throttle position, and brake application during the past 48 hours. Beginning Oct. 1, 2009, locomotives must have a crash-hardened in-service event recorder meeting crashworthiness requirements set by the agency.12
11 | Are EDRs used for crash notification?
Automatic crash notification systems are designed to alert emergency responders, including police and medical personnel, when crashes occur. These systems use data from EDRs, airbag sensors, and global positioning systems to identify the occurrence of crashes, their severity and the location of involved vehicles. This information is sent automatically by cell phone to emergency dispatchers or to a private call center, which forward it to local 911 operators.13
Now you Know The Rest of the Story!
KC
Popularly called a "black box," an event data recorder is a device that records certain information from a vehicle immediately before and/or during a crash — not all crashes but most of the serious ones. Police, crash investigators, and others can download the data from the EDR's memory to help them better understand what happened to the vehicle and how the safety systems performed, and in some cases, help establish culpability. Most EDRs are built into a vehicle's airbag control module and record information about airbag deployment. However, some vehicles also record precrash data, like engine throttle and vehicle speed from the engine control module. Some airbag and engine control modules store only diagnostic trouble codes and whether there was a signal to deploy supplemental restraint systems (i.e. airbags and belt tensioners). These modules aren't considered to have EDRs, so they aren't covered under federal rules. Devices that record vehicle speed before a crash or speed change during impact are defined under federal rules as EDRs.
2 | Are passenger vehicles required to have EDRs?
No. They aren't mandatory but many automakers choose to include them in their cars. In August 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued an EDR rule that will apply to 2013 and later models. The rule standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices defined as EDRs must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats. More advanced EDRs may record additional information from the engine control module, antilock brakes, and other vehicle systems. Federal rules outline as many as 30 extra data elements that advanced EDRs must log. Vehicle manufacturers must publicly share information about how to download EDR data,{{{{{ and they have to include a statement in the owner's manual telling consumers that their vehicle has an EDR}}}}.1
3 | What data do EDRs record?
As of model year 2013, all EDRs must record:1
- Change in forward crash speed
- Maximum change in forward crash speed
- Time from beginning of crash at which the maximum change in forward crash speed occurs
- Speed vehicle was traveling
- Percentage of engine throttle, percentage full (how far the accelerator pedal was pressed)
- Whether or not brake was applied
- Ignition cycle (number of power cycles applied to the EDR) at the time of the crash
- Ignition cycle (number of power cycles applied to the EDR) when the EDR data were downloaded
- Whether or not driver was using safety belt
- Whether or not frontal airbag warning lamp was on
- Driver frontal airbag deployment: time to deploy for a single stage airbag, or time to first stage deployment for a multistage airbag
- Right front passenger frontal airbag deployment: time to deploy for a single stage airbag, or time to first stage deployment for a multistage airbag
- Number of crash events
- Time between first two crash events, if applicable
- Whether or not EDR completed recording
For EDRs capable of logging more detailed vehicle information, NHTSA requires the devices to record such things as sideways acceleration, forward or rearward acceleration, engine speed, driver steering input, right front passenger safety belt status, engagement of electronic stability control system, antilock brake activity, side airbag deployment time for driver and right front passenger, and seat track positions for both the driver and right front passenger. Occupant size and position for drivers and right front passengers may also be recorded.
5 | What vehicles have EDRs?
NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. By 2005, General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Suzuki were all voluntarily equipping all of their vehicles with EDRs, according to NHTSA's estimates.2 Recent information from vehicle manufacturers indicates that all new passenger vehicles have EDRs, although those EDRs may not include all of the data elements specified in the NHTSA rule.
6 | What kinds of crashes are recorded?
Some EDRs in recent model vehicles can gather information from frontal, side, rear, and rollover impacts. The original EDRs in GM and Ford vehicles collected information only from frontal and rear impacts. Data on side impact crashes can now be downloaded from nearly all 2004 and later GM vehicles with side airbags and some 2001 and later Ford vehicles.
7 | What are the potential uses of the data?
EDRs can provide information about a crash that can't be obtained through more traditional investigation techniques. Police, crash investigators, automakers, insurance adjusters, and highway safety researchers can use this information to analyze what occurred during a crash. The data may help automakers improve occupant restraint systems and vehicle structures.3,4
EDR data may be useful in determining culpability. For example, EDR data from a car involved in an August 2002 crash in Florida showed the vehicle was traveling at 144 mph seconds before it struck another vehicle, killing two passengers. The EDR data were used to convict the driver of manslaughter.5
8 | Do the data have limitations?
Yes, useful as EDR data may be to researchers and others, there are limitations. Most new passenger vehicles don't have advanced EDRs. Their recorders capture only data from airbag crash sensors and may not gather other information such as precrash speed and safety belt usage. Some EDRs restrict data retrieval to the maker of the vehicle.
EDR data may not always survive a crash. The Institute has downloaded data from 13 2001-07 GM models and two 2003-05 Ford models after 40 mph frontal offset crash tests. The EDRs in the GM vehicles accurately recorded precrash speeds, airbag deployment times, and belt use. They also recorded vehicle decelerations during the crashes, but the EDRs in 7 of the 13 cars stopped recording before the crashes ended. The EDRs in the two Ford models recorded airbag deployment times and belt use, but both stopped recording vehicle deceleration data before the crash was over. Likewise, NHTSA reviewed the results of 37 crash tests in vehicles equipped with EDRs and found that the majority of EDRs didn't record the entire crash event.6
Retrieving data from EDRs after a crash can be difficult. During 2002 and 2003, NHTSA investigators couldn't retrieve data in about one-third of their attempts. In some cases, the EDR didn't have any data. In other cases, vehicle damage prevented downloading the data, the owner wouldn't provide access to the EDR, or technical/training issues prevented the downloading of the data for some crashes.7
9 | Who owns the data and who has access?
EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers, and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.5
For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.8
10 | Are ships, planes and trains required to have EDRs?
Yes, some planes, ships, and locomotives are required by federal or international regulations to have EDRs. Beginning in 1958, some commercial planes had to have flight data recorders that recorded five parameters including speed and altitude. The number of data elements has increased since then, and flight data recorders now must track a minimum of 88 parameters.9 Since 1967, planes also have been required to have cockpit voice recorders that maintain the last 30 minutes of pilots' conversations prior to a crash.10
Passenger ships and ships with 3,000 or more gross tonnage built after June 31, 2002, must have a voyage data recorder that records a minimum of 12 hours of data, including the ship's position, speed, and heading.11
The Federal Railroad Administration in July 1993 issued a rule requiring the lead locomotive of any train operated faster than 30 mph to have an in-service event recorder that logs, among other things, the speed, direction, throttle position, and brake application during the past 48 hours. Beginning Oct. 1, 2009, locomotives must have a crash-hardened in-service event recorder meeting crashworthiness requirements set by the agency.12
11 | Are EDRs used for crash notification?
Automatic crash notification systems are designed to alert emergency responders, including police and medical personnel, when crashes occur. These systems use data from EDRs, airbag sensors, and global positioning systems to identify the occurrence of crashes, their severity and the location of involved vehicles. This information is sent automatically by cell phone to emergency dispatchers or to a private call center, which forward it to local 911 operators.13
Now you Know The Rest of the Story!
KC
Last edited by 05stangkc; 11/13/08 at 01:23 PM.
11/13/08, 01:56 PM
#16
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This doesn't bother me at all. If it were wirelessly transmitting to Dick Cheney's Undisclosed Location every minute of every day, or if it spit out tickets when you broke the law like in 5th Element, I'd have a beef. But as is it's fine, especially since you can deny the Data to whomever you wish (barring a Court Order).
Accident. Just like an airplane.
Accident. Just like an airplane.
11/13/08, 01:59 PM
#17
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October 6, 2008 To:All Ford and Lincoln Mercury DealersSubject:SYNC w/911 Assist & Vehicle Health Report Implementation DetailsBACKGROUNDSYNC is a game changing technology. The initial launch has helped to re-define Ford's position in the smart technology marketplace and develop new sales opportunities. SYNC-equipped Ford and Lincoln Mercury vehicles turn at double the rate of non-SYNC equipped. Now, the introduction of SYNC with 911 Assist and Vehicle Health Report (VHR) represents peace of mind and convenience for our customers. These new features provide two more compelling reasons for consumers to choose Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, and for Dealers an opportunity to increase service loyalty and traffic.
Between 11/3/2008 and 1/5/2009, 23 FLM vehicles will be launched with 911 Assist and Vehicle Health Report (VHR). In addition, on 12/1/2008, FCSD will launch the capability for Dealerships to upgrade 2008 MY and early 2009 MY SYNC equipped vehicles to include the two new features. The upgrade will consist of a software-only package downloaded via the PTS Website at no-charge to the Dealership.
NEW FEATURES
911 Assist and Vehicle Health Report represent the next evolution of SYNC – utilizing the power of in-vehicle communications to provide the peace-of-mind, convenience and real-time diagnostics services our customers want and need.
What is 911 Assist?
A fast, simple, direct connection to 911:
- Triggered by airbag deployment and on certain vehicles the emergency fuel pump shut-off
- Gives vehicle occupants the opportunity to cancel the call before dialing
- Allows hands-free communication with a 911 operator
- No subscription fees
- Call can seamlessly continue in privacy mode using the phone handset if the occupant needs to leave the vehicle for any reason
- Call is a standard, wireless call to 911 and provides the mobile phone number and location when available
Vehicle Health Report provides the customer information from the vehicle, Ford Motor Company, and the customer's preferred Dealership to help manage and maintain their vehicle's health. Vehicle Health Report integrates data from multiple sources to communicate diagnostic, recall and maintenance information.
- Report viewed on syncmyride.com includes:
- Scheduled Maintenance
- Unserviced Yellow and Red items from the Multi-point Inspection Report Card (Requires Multipoint Inspection condition codes to be properly and consistently recorded on the Repair Order)
- Recall and Field Service Actions
- {Diagnostics for monitored electronic systems}
- Could the Above Detect Mods??? Could it be Used to track Driving Speeds Etc??? Could it be Used for Law enforcement to issue Tickets Sight Unseen. Perhaps in the Future! It Could Happen.
- kc
- Customer logs into their syncmyride account to view their VHR, and can then schedule service online via Genuine eService, or print or e-mail the report
- Like 911 Assist, requires no Ford subscription fees or additional charges
- With proper VHR preference settings on syncmyride.com, customer receives either an e-mail or text message to notify them their report is ready, and can also receive a text message regarding urgent fault conditions related to any monitored-system warning indicators displaying in the vehicle at the time health report was initiated
Between 11/3/2008 and 1/5/2009, 23 FLM vehicles will be launched with two new SYNC features.
Vehicles with build dates after this month will contain these new features:
- November 2008
- Lincoln Mercury: MKS, Navigator, Sable
- Ford: Expedition, Taurus, Taurus X
- December 2008
- Lincoln Mercury: Milan, MKZ, Mariner, Mariner Hybrid, MKX, Mountaineer
- Ford: Fusion, Escape, Escape Hybrid, Edge, Explorer, Explorer Sport Trac, Focus, Super Duty, F-150, Flex
- January 2009
- Ford: Mustang
Last edited by 05stangkc; 11/13/08 at 02:33 PM.
11/13/08, 02:26 PM
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