Bigjohns97

You guys really want GM to go under??

Competion fuels advancement dude, you think we would have a 420hp 5.0 right now if it wasn't for gm's ls3 camaro?

PaulVincent

Yes, I do. Ford did not set the Camaro as its target when engineering the 2011 Mustang's 5.0 or the Mustang itself. If it had, the 2011 Mustang would have resembled a canal barge instead of being the artistic beauty that it is. More specifically, instead of the advanced engineering of the 5.0, a Mustang designed to compete directly against the Camaro's LS3 would have had an old fashioned two valve OHV engine that strains to make 70 hp/liter. As far as competition, yes, it is necessary for meaningful progress, but let's have an even playing field (or at least some humility on the part of GM - at least until GM can purchase it freedom from its government masters). Finally, as my wife said while watching a Camaro cross our path at an intersection, "That car looks like it was two separate vehicles joined together."

Bigjohns97

http://autos.aol.com/article/mustang...rsepower-wars/

When Dave Pericak, chief engineer of the Mustang, was asked if his $23,000 V6 pony car was tuned just to beat Chevy, he replied, “I’m not going to lie to you, that’s exactly why.”

Lancel

Yep. Camaro played a big part in the 2011s, but I also hear that a couple other cars were benchmarks for the interior quality.

825LTRGT

There wouldn't be an LS3 Camaro if it weren't for the Mustang!

Don't forget which was first and wasn't dropped for 17 years.

PaulVincent

Maybe the V6 was tuned to beat the Camaro, but the 2011 Mustang was designed for much more than what the Camaro is. Face it, the Camaro is a niche car - otherwise it wouldn't have that oddball cartoon design (both inside and out).

fdjizm

I don't want to see GM go under, I want them to wake up and stop acting like they are in "fisher price my first car company mode" the recent PR of them almost celebrating a paid off loan in which they paid with other people's money is not a smart move, they left out ALOT of stuff,

Dear Customer, yaaaaay we paid off our loan IN FULL!!
(but we still owe the people we took the money from to pay the loan with)

wtfff

why talk to your customer base like you just conquered a mountain? when all you did was move money over and you still owe that amount to someone else.

fdjizm

Plot thickens...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...h-advertising/
General Motors is running ads on all the major networks this week claiming it has repaid its bailout from the taxpayers "in full." But the claim isn't standing up to scrutiny from lawmakers and government watchdogs who have found that the automaker was able to repay the bailout money only by dipping into a separate pot of bailout funds.

The TV spot may land GM in hot water with the Federal Trade Commission over its truth-in-advertising laws, which prohibit ads that are "likely to mislead consumers."

Lancel

Now that could be something serious. Really, if all this is true, it was a bad move on GM's part. No one is happy they had to get bailed out due to bad business practices, but people are going to be even less happy if they pretty much lie about paying off their debts.

I could see a major court case occurring over this. We might even see this resolved by the time the 2020s are out.

PaulVincent

"I don't want to see GM go under, I want them to wake up and stop acting like they are in "fisher price my first car company mod"." Exactly how I feel. GM, please redesign the Camaro, and do it soon.

stangfoeva

They sure as heck better in trouble for that!!

2k7gtcs

GM sucks. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Klay

While I agree with you to an extent, it isn't like Ford was doing all that much better before GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy. Obviously, Ford is doing better financially now and has quite an impressive line-up of vehicles but that hasn't always been the case. It's not like everything GM produces is crap either, they have several vehicles that are doing quite well.

It's funny how things have changed between the camaro and mustang. The mustang has outsold the camaro for the majority of the time they have been around. The camaro generally was faster too. Now, the camaro is outselling the mustang and I think enough time has passed that shows it is for more reasons than pent up demand. The mustang is also faster now (although not by a whole lot) yet it remains to be seen if the mustang can retain its sells crown.

This is probably one of the few times, or possibly only times, the mustang and camaro have been so fairly matched in performance, price and sales.

Lastly, camaro5 is horrible site as has been stated. I went by camaroz28 because it was mentioned by others here and they are wayyyy better. There are some fanboys but that's normal.

PaulVincent

" Now, the camaro is outselling the mustang and I think enough time has passed that shows it is for more reasons than pent up demand." Can you provide sales figures to support this? I'm not saying it isn't so, but I really doubt that the Camaro outsold the 2010 Mustang or the 2009 either.

Enator

Here it comes:

825LTRGT

GM is using the same logic that the Gov uses about Social Security.

The Gov has a myterious "Social Security Trust Fund"? BS!!! They use money that is currently being paid in to pay current liability. So when there are fewer contributors and more recieving benefits (i.e Baby boomers) it will go away unless another pot is tapped.

Eventually it will catch up to them.

Skotty

The sales graph is a nice find, assuming it's accurate.

I think we'll see the Mustang pull ahead in sales as soon Ford starts getting the 2011's to lots so people can actually buy them. A lot of us just waiting around to buy.

Enator

It is accurate because me collecting them and I make a graph of them so be sure

2010MustangGT

The graph is just comparing, 2010 sales percentages to that of 2009 sales...
Should make one with the numbers.

It'll fair out to be very close in terms of competition.

Enator

Sure why not