12C/OBoss

I guess then it would not be a good idea to have these lights call undue attention to your mods then...


Sorry my lame attemp at helping another failed...best regards

adrenalin

Time to stop with the name calling guys.

WhiteBird00

There are a lot of misconceptions being posted in this thread on both sides.

HIDs produce more light (measured in lumens) than halogen bulbs by a considerable margin. It's not just the color although it is correct that 4300K is the most effective because it's closest to daylight. Modern halogen bulbs produce around 1300 lumens with the H9 producing the most at 2100 lumens. 35W HID capsules produce 2800 to 3500 lumens while using less power. The difference in light intensity is even more dramatic - typically 20K candlepower for halogen versus 200K cp for HIDs.

Color does affect the perception of brightness. The human eye isn't good at processing light tending towards the blue end of the spectrum so it interprets it as brightness when it's really glare. 4300K is the best temperature for overall visibility. 6000K is acceptable in that it is mostly white with a hint of blue. Beyond that you're wasting light output. At 8000K you're losing 15-20 percent of usable light. By the time you get to 12000K you might as well have stayed with halogen for the amount of usable light available.

Now, legality is not a state by state thing. Regardless of what the laws in SC and other states say, all vehicle safety equipment is governed by federal law. In order to be used legally on the street, lighting must be DOT approved. The DOT doesn't actually test or do the approvals but publishes standards that the auto makers must meet before they can mark their lamps with a DOT approval. So technically, any light modification that isn't DOT approved is illegal. Certainly that includes all HID upgrade kits - they are marked "off road use only" in an attempt to get around the law but the government has been cracking down on those as well with some distributors being hit with large fines in recent years.

Sure, there are lots of things that are illegal because of technical regulations or other reasons. But what people are objecting to here is the effect it has on other drivers. A loud exhaust may be illegal but it's only annoying to others - it's not going to impact their safety.

And yes, even projector retrofits are illegal. But again, it's the difference between being just illegal and being unsafe and illegal.

Finally, consider that other drivers are not the only ones affected by the improper use of HIDs. The car's driver also gets a somewhat false impression of better lighting because the reflector throws so much light directly in front of the car. The amount of light is impressive and literally lights up the night in front of the car. But that is not where you should be looking when driving - you should be looking farther down the road toward the limits of the light's reach. Unfortunately, that very bright foreground light causes your pupils to contract and you can actually see less at a distance than you should.

wonger

I use aftermarket hids from ddm on my FZ1 Yamaha. My beef is not with HIDS in a projector housing. It was with the chest-beating tone of ZX's previous post of I'm more important than you. I didn't add any useful information to his thread requesting it so I apologize.

To offer some info, I can easily recommend DDM as their service is great. I would also only recommend the 35w ballasts. I had to add some washers to re-aim my lights downward to try to not blind people. The reflector housing on the FZ was very conducive to a pretty flat cut off without too much scatter, and my hot spots were not above the cutoff. I can't say how the reflector housings work on the +'10 mustangs.

hahnsolo78

Exactly, I have "legal HID kit" for my Harley and people always flash me when I have my low beams on so I flash them right back with my high beam, the people that yell and scream about it in here just want to sound better then you because it's illegal but it don't Chang the fact that people still flash you even when they are "legal"

jaybertx

+1, I don't have an opinion either way but I used to get flashed ALL of the time when I had my Lincoln Aviator with factory HIDs.

WhiteBird00

Unless the kit was made by HD as a factory option or replacement, it's not a "legal HID kit" no matter what the vendor tells you - there is no such thing. But again, the legality is only a side point. The real point is "what gives anyone the right to blind other drivers merely for their own gratification?" There is a right way and a wrong way to improve your lighting.

Even factory HIDs can be annoying - especially in taller vehicles like SUVs - but they generally fall into the category of intermittent flashes of too much light because of road irregularities rather than a constant blinding light.

Adam

RetroSolutions 5000k w/ bulb caps FTW.

2012GT

Good info on the lumens and candlepower

Yes, it is a "state by state thing". I understand federal vs state law quite well to say the least. A South Carolina State Trooper can not write a federal charge nor can any other County Deputy or City Officer. You will never see an FBI agent, US Marshall, ATF agent, DEA agent etc write someone a headlight ticket for violating a DOT law. The South Carolina Transport Police and Game Warderns can only enforce limited Federal laws. Transport police deal exclusively with Trucks and Game Wardens with wildlife. So unless any of the above Federal agencies get issued Federal "Uniform Traffic Tickets" (which don't exist), you're good to go with HID headlights in South Carolina.

2012GrabbGT

Didn't take long for ZXMustang to get banned after this thread. I've been thinking about putting some aftermarket HID's on my Stang; but, i want to do it right.

WhiteBird00

State LEOs don't have to enforce federal laws... state laws are written to mirror federal laws.

The SC Code of Laws Title 56 (Motor Vehicles) has the following section:
In other words, it is illegal in SC to sell or use modified headlights (including HIDs).

hahnsolo78

It was so I do know all about legal or not HID kits, Harley provided it so.... Your guys argument is that illegal HID kits blind people yes? Well then don't sit and scream at us if the legal ones do the same thing, it's no different, I could ride my bike with the factory light on bright and get flashed once in a while but the LEGAL HID kit I have from Harley them selves gets me shined all the time about, 4-7 times I drive it. So What give the people with legal HIDS to blind people? Don't split hairs people, or just keep blinding "blind old ladies" with your "make you feel better cause it's legal" HID headlights

For the record I do not have any illegal HID kits in any of my vehicles
78 f150 - standard
2011 mustang - stranded
2011 Harley davidson - legal HID from harley

WhiteBird00

I'm afraid I have bad news for you... HD doesn't sell accessory HID kits. Check their website - they sell LED headlights and upgraded halogen lights but no HIDs. The dealer probably sold you an aftermarket ballast and capsules just like the ones we're talking about. That would mean they're installed in a halogen reflector which could explain why you get flashed all the time.

hahnsolo78

Led is blinding people too, stop splitting hairs

hahnsolo78

This is legal you are splitting hairs
If the illegal hid kits were causing so many problems then hy not just stop them from entering the country? It could easily be done.

Overboost

I used DDM for replacement D2S bulbs on my last car. I also installed one of their HID kits for the fog lights. I ran those at night instead of high beams when I needed them, and they worked great.

WhiteBird00

Maybe so... they're not on Harley's website and even your photo comes from a magazine so I couldn't find them for sale anywhere online. But they look like proper projector lamps so they could be a nice upgrade. Check and see if they have the DOT number molded into the lens or housing - that will tell you if they are approved. Perhaps all they need is some aiming to avoid getting flashed so often.

LEwis26

Very cool. Sounds you maybe need to re aim them downwards a little to keep them out of other people's eyes.

The biggest difference between a projector HID set up or factory HID reflector and retrofit kits is the light scatter. Yes some factory HID kits CAN momentarily flash other drivers when going over bumps and stuff, but theres a distinct cutoff line where the light stops. Sometimes with the angles of roads and bumps, this line can go into other drivers windshields.

HID's in a reflector housing designed for halogen bulbs have glare and blinding characteristics ALL the time. There is no cut off, only 2 poorly positioned hot spots, and a full array of glare from down low to up in the trees. This is what blinds people.

hahnsolo78

I'm on my phone and no where near my bike to take a picture rightnow or I would have used that, I just pulled it off google I like HIDs and I like the housings, on some cars and bikes, I do not have the illegal ones on anything, I don't want to do HIDs in my mustang because the cost, even illegal ones are a few hundred, for headlights. I'd rather spend the cash on HP not headlights.

WhiteBird00

I can understand... I ride a Gold Wing myself and I know that seeing and being seen is even more important on a bike than in a car. Those look great so maybe a little re-aiming is all that's needed to stop the annoying flashing you get from other drivers. I also get flashed a lot on the bike but in my case it's because I have a modulator installed on the headlight. Drivers who don't know about modulators flash me thinking there is something wrong with my lights.