Varilux

A year or so ago, I lowered (back only) my '14 GT with Ford Racing P Springs. Since then, I've read numerous posts/articles about how lowering the rear may cause the axle to shift to decenter a bit.

Sure enough, a few months back I took some calipers and measured where the tires now sit. It appears the rear has shifted 3/8" towards the driver's side.

I know the solution is to install an adjustable panhard bar. My question is- why is it super important to move the rear laterally 3/8" to make it centered? I haven't noticed any particular handling problems- during either daily or agressive driving- and visually its not particularly noticeable unless you walk around the car looking for it. I get that a panhard bar keeps the rear from moving laterally (just as the control arms keep it from moving forwards and backwards), but as long as its not moving what's the big deal if its 3/8" to one side?

I have also installed LCAs (to get rid of wheel hop- they pretty much eliminated 97% of the hop).

Thanks for the info...
Pete

Speedwagon

Your rear axle will be kicked over to the left (drivers side) when you lower your car. But the very nature of your rear end set up is a compromise at best, so it's only exactly centered at some point. Whether that be when you're in it, when it's empty, whatever. When you lower it more than and inch or an inch and a half it will push it left. Whether that's bad or not depends. The good thing an adj track bar gives you is you can set your car up for the axle being centered at ride height. But you won't notice any increase in handling except you will have a stiffer piece in place.

David Young

My 2011 v6 was off 13mm with the factory springs and the factory panhard bar. With my Steeda Watts Link, i have it adjusted to around 1mm off.

Varilux

So it sounds like- other than being able to say you have an adjustable bar and have recentered the car- there is no particular advantage to having done so?

So, assuming I am quite happy with the way the car handles (which I am), there's no real "necessity" to install an adjustable panhard (i.e., no additional wear and tear will result to the suspension or drivetrain, etc.)?

Thanks again!

houtex

I've been told that the measurements of the axle should be taken on 1/2 a tank of gas. This is supposedly the 'middle' of the arc of travel of the panhard bar end. Alignment should also be done this way, to be as 'centered' as possible.

Or so I was told.

ElkGroveFordGuy

If you are running wider rims and tires you can have interference with the fender lip.
You need to be centered to run larger tires.

Varilux

Thanks for the replies! I remembered I have a coworker who races various classes of cars, so I asked him the same question this afternoon.

He indicated that re-centering the axle really isn't all that crucial, and isn't the primary reason one would need an adjustable panhard bar. According to him, the advantage of having an adjustable bar is mainly being able to set up for various types of racing to help with "turn in." For example, in NASCAR they are normally going to be turning left all day- so they'll adjust the rear towards the passenger side... but on a road course, they'll adjust for the corner where exit speed is most crucial (usually right before the longest straightaway).

He assured me that a 3/8" offset (which probably becomes a bit more when I'm sitting in the car and have a full tank) isn't going to cause any problems and- unless I plan on serious track time- it really isn't necessary to get an adjustable bar.

Always love learning stuff!

PJRManagement

---
As others have stated, a 3/8" shift will not adversely affect anything, and won't even be visible to anyone but you (I had about 1/2" shift of my stock PHB when I lowered my 2011 GT 1.5" in the rear, and no one noticed it but me). However, adjustable PHBs generally come with high-performance poly bushings, a definite improvement over the stock rubber bushings. And the strength of the metal used for the aftermarket bar is an improvement over stock, as well. Also, a good after-market PHB will have slightly lower weight, too. All of this will, ultimately, provide a touch better handling - so there is a slight (very slight, admittedly) advantage to a good after-market adjustable PHB. But...if you're not tracking your car, this does not matter.

houtex

I noticed my axle shift.

It drove me nuts. I hated it. That wheel pooching out of the left fender...

I am *very* glad to have my BMR Hammertone Adjustable Panhard bar, 'cause OCD. All centered and pretty now.

But indeed... didn't change the driving, just the look, but I can't have a wheel waaay the heck over in the next lane like that, so did what had to be done.

MRGTX

I believe that it's fair to say that it won't significantly affect the performance of the car to have a slightly off-center axle. However, as the axle moves laterally with compression/extension, starting with the axle sifted to one side could exaggerate the effect when the suspension is compressed a bit...and that will generate some funny geometry that could screw you over (?)

It's also possible that you're applying a pre-load to the rear suspension if the panhard bar is "pulling" when in a neutral position....perhaps someone can verify this?

tj@steeda

If the car is lowered, not putting in a adjustable PHB will mean the rear axle on the car is permanently 1/2 inch pushed over to the drivers side. That will put side stress on the control arms and the driveshaft that they were not designed for. So it can cause premature failure of those parts.

Even with stock tires, you’ll notice that the rear is pushed out to the left. If you have wide tires and upgraded wheels, you’re almost guaranteed to rub without the use of a panhard bar. - See more at: http://www.steeda.com/blog/2013/12/s....CVo7jfi5.dpuf

The Steeda adjustable panhard bar is 40% lighter than its stock replacement and is 31% lighter than our closest competitor. We make our bar out of 4130 chrome moly steel which is stronger than the stock mild steel piece. This improved design over our original one allows for center adjustability using a CNC machined chrome moly steel adjuster and CNC chrome moly threaded inserts, precisely engineered to provide an easy adjustment while also allowing for an extremely high quality fit. The new center adjustment point also means no wrench fitment or installation issues.


Best Regards,

TJ

MRGTX

Ahh... that makes sense.
Excellent info!

Varilux

Interesting info... I ran it by my aforementioned coworker (because he had not mentioned any of that). He looked through the thread and commented:
1. If the stock bar allows movement, then okay there might be some slight benefit (although since I've told him I have a "track pack," he was assuming they put a quality panhard bar in- in fact, he didn't understand why the stock bar wasn't adjustable if the car specifically came with a "track package").
2. He's not buying into most of the "side stress on the control arms and driveshaft" argument. For the LCAs (which are aftermarket for me), he estimates 1 degree of deflection- and perhaps 0.5 degrees for the driveshaft. UCA depends on the setup, but since I've complained about wheel hop in the past, he has a hard time believing the slop in stock UCA.
3. Yep, passenger side could rub if you go with really wide tires.

His advice remained "If you think you will ever put this car on the track, its worth installing one simply for the adjustability- plus it's not that expensive and isn't hard to install. Otherwise, the only benefit is cosmetic.

Not contesting any of the info here- just giving his input. I think I'll end up purchasing and installing one (for the cosmetics, and I'll convince myself I can feel the improved handling ).

kcoTiger

Yeah, the "it'll stress your control arms/driveshaft" comment is a sales pitch from steeda, no surprise. You would have to drive that car SERIOUSLY hard to stress them at all because of the shifted rear end. Your racing friend is spot on.

jp1seattle

Not sure how a panhard bar could be cosmetic unless you're on a lift. I put mine on when I lowered it because I wanted it done right.

Varilux

By "cosmetic" he was referring to evening out the appearance of the rear wheels, not the panhard bar itself.

Like I said, I'll probably end up installing one myself. My curiosity about this simply came from a number of posts I've seen (and an article a couple years back in Mustang Monthly) that seem to imply adding an adjustable panhard bar should go hand-in-hand with any lowering of the rear end (but no one had ever explained any consequences of not doing so). My takeaway has been there probably really aren't any- but it certainly isn't a bad thing if you want to recenter the axle.

2007s197

I do not have the numbers here with me but on my '07 the cromoly adjustable bar I used was a good bit lighter than the stock bar which is solid steel.
I used it to recenter the rear axle after going with wide tires so the bit of weight savings was a bonus for me.

I have a Steeda bar ready to go on the '14 when the weather warms up.

Glenn

The weight difference is nominal and IMO you will never notice it. Most of us could really care less about a couple of ounces. The fact an after market piece is stronger and will have less flex and will enable you to center your rear axle is more important to me than anything. You can find a used one in great condition for right around 100 bucks.... so why not make things right back there as opposed to leaving it wrong. My 2 cents!

jp1seattle

Oh man....yeah, duh. I wasn't thinking.

On a side note, I just had to tighten mine yesterday. I didn't put loc-tite on the adjustment nut like BMR recommended and sure enough it finally worked itself loose. Heard a slight clicking in the rear end as well as feeling like the back end was shifty and sure enough that's what it was.

tj@steeda

No sales pitch ... just providing you with the correct answers to the questions above.

There are many ways to do things ... if you want to lower the car without the aforementioned & it works out for you ... then no worries.

It you want to lower it & correct the potential issues that could occur, along with a shifted rear end ... then this is a small investment.

In the end ... weight is the enemy of performance ... 4 lbs doesn't sound like much, but when you start adding up the savings after all is said & done when you mod your cars, it could be a nice weight savings in the end!

Also ... when you order the Steeda Panhard Bar, you are getting the satisfaction of:



Let me know if I can help assist with anything further!

Best Regards,

TJ