5.0 Stats When Supercharged
4/1/10, 07:47 PM
#21
I Have No Life
It's all in the tune....
More than likely there'll be several different levels of 'fun'
Just like the current kits.
More than likely there'll be several different levels of 'fun'
Just like the current kits.
Last edited by Boomer; 4/1/10 at 07:48 PM.
4/1/10, 09:53 PM
#22
Legacy TMS Member
I'm wonder to what effect the intake and exhaust VVT can be had? At lower RPM where cylinder pressure would be higher the VVT system could bleed off boost reduce the amount of bleed as engine speed rises.
This was a trick some cam companies used on older high compression engines that were detonation prone on pump gas.
But your right, ultimately a set of forged low compression slugs would allow for an ideal tune through the entire RPM range on a high boost engine.
4/1/10, 11:19 PM
#23
I Have No Life
Dunno how much of a safety margin it provides, but don't forget the pistons have a jet of cooling oil to the bottom side, keeping the tempurature down or creating a situation where the piston can shed heat better makes a big difference in mechanical properties.
I'm wonder to what effect the intake and exhaust VVT can be had? At lower RPM where cylinder pressure would be higher the VVT system could bleed off boost reduce the amount of bleed as engine speed rises.
This was a trick some cam companies used on older high compression engines that were detonation prone on pump gas.
But your right, ultimately a set of forged low compression slugs would allow for an ideal tune through the entire RPM range on a high boost engine.
I'm wonder to what effect the intake and exhaust VVT can be had? At lower RPM where cylinder pressure would be higher the VVT system could bleed off boost reduce the amount of bleed as engine speed rises.
This was a trick some cam companies used on older high compression engines that were detonation prone on pump gas.
But your right, ultimately a set of forged low compression slugs would allow for an ideal tune through the entire RPM range on a high boost engine.
4/2/10, 02:27 AM
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4/2/10, 03:58 AM
#27
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I have to think the more powerful Copperhead ECU and knock sensors can help out with a tank of bad gas. Pull timing, close the throttle etc to save an engine. I would offer Ford can be more aggressive with tuning knowing there's better safeguards in place.
4/2/10, 04:20 AM
#28
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Lower comp pistons will also lower the initial hp and trq numbers. Therefore I am going with 525 with that bloated 11:1 ratio. Dropping to 8.5:1 and you could get 625 with out swapping the rods.
4/2/10, 08:32 AM
#30
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awesome stuff on the SC. I guess 575 between 5-7psi of boost...This will be a nice addition. 500+RWHP and TQ in a 3600 lb car with 3.73s!! Will have to get some nice wide rear tires to help with traction in 1 and 2nd gear!!
4/2/10, 09:42 AM
#31
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4/2/10, 10:13 AM
#32
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Apparently, the "cal" featured in the new 5.0L is much more sophisticated than the outgoing 3V 4.6L's. Whipple's H.O. kit for the aforementioned 3V 4.6L pushes 11-13 pounds of boost which many consider the ragged limit for that engine. The 3V's ECM, too, had to accommodate for lean and rich conditions, ****ty gasoline, etc, and I don't think I've ever heard of one blowing up running the Ford Racing tune -- and that kit makes some insane power.
4/2/10, 01:07 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by StratGT
Response from LP
Could be very interesting if true....
Without trying to knock anyone here I'd say the high compression of the stock motor plus boost equals one seriously damaged motor. Beat on the car with good gas and it might survive somewhat, but if one bad tank of gas gets in there the motor is toast. A twin screw blower at 5psi is a waste considering twin screw blowers operate more effeciently at higher boost leverls. When a company makes aftermarket lower compression forged pistons and forged rods then by all means start boosting the motor. As for now, I'd wait till some tuning experts get ahold of this motor...maybe they can add 40 or 50 hp to this motor with cams, long tubes and tuning.
I understand what you're saying however people have been running twin screws successfully on higher compression motors for a long time now. As far as tuning experts go they've already tuned the new 5.0L motor with this blower and have had great results. The 2.3L Whipple actually is supposed be standard on the 2011 Shelby GT350. Ford's top calibration experts are the ones that did all the tuning for that setup and it's still a go so I guess they feel pretty comfortable with how things look. If anything changes I'll be sure to let you guys know.
Thanks, Jared
Thanks, Jared
4/2/10, 01:43 PM
#34
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This quote is from whipple about bad gas and the 5.0 with SC and high compression.
Thats why it has an extremely advanced knock system with thousands of hours of testing. As every year a new motor comes out, many say it can't take this or that, but we'll only offer it where it will live and pass all durability test.
Thats why it has an extremely advanced knock system with thousands of hours of testing. As every year a new motor comes out, many say it can't take this or that, but we'll only offer it where it will live and pass all durability test.
4/2/10, 01:54 PM
#35
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It is true; Lethal Performance is receiving all of their information straight from Whipple. Ford does all of the tuning for the FRPP / Whipple supercharger kits. According to Whipple, these supercharged engines are subjected to the same gamut of torture tests as a brand-new engine going through its proving paces, and I would say that definitely gives Whipple an advantage over companies like KB, Saleen, et al. Tuning will be especially critical for the new engine because of its high compression.
4/2/10, 03:06 PM
#37
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Sorry Boomer, you're right. The new ECU is spawned from Baby Jesus himself and can deal with any and all conditions including detonation, loss of fuel pressure, you name it! Why not run 20 PSI? It will detect a hole burning through the piston and blow off the extra boost!
When FORD makes a boosted 5.0 in a factory car, I'll bet you the car itself, yes a $50k+ bet, that it won't be a Mustang GT 5.0 with a whipple kit and a FRPP tune. It will be built differently, for boost. Take the bet? You guys buy so much hype, it's hilarious. The engine does not pass "all Ford durability". If it did, Ford would put a 5/60k powertrain warranty on it. Do they? Nope. Wonder why?
Hell, they'll only offer a 12/12k warranty on their FRPP TVS kits designed for motors BUILT for boost.
But I digress, Boomer has convinced me a cast hypereutectic piston is ideal for boost as long as you have a special ECU. It's a relief no ones engine will blow up, I am glad Boomer has assured us of the fact that with the whipple, you can't blow up your engine! Bookmark this page!
Thanks Boomer for your assurances that we cannot blow this engine up!
When FORD makes a boosted 5.0 in a factory car, I'll bet you the car itself, yes a $50k+ bet, that it won't be a Mustang GT 5.0 with a whipple kit and a FRPP tune. It will be built differently, for boost. Take the bet? You guys buy so much hype, it's hilarious. The engine does not pass "all Ford durability". If it did, Ford would put a 5/60k powertrain warranty on it. Do they? Nope. Wonder why?
Hell, they'll only offer a 12/12k warranty on their FRPP TVS kits designed for motors BUILT for boost.
But I digress, Boomer has convinced me a cast hypereutectic piston is ideal for boost as long as you have a special ECU. It's a relief no ones engine will blow up, I am glad Boomer has assured us of the fact that with the whipple, you can't blow up your engine! Bookmark this page!
Thanks Boomer for your assurances that we cannot blow this engine up!
Last edited by eci; 4/2/10 at 03:10 PM.
4/2/10, 03:55 PM
#39
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Apparently, the "cal" featured in the new 5.0L is much more sophisticated than the outgoing 3V 4.6L's. Whipple's H.O. kit for the aforementioned 3V 4.6L pushes 11-13 pounds of boost which many consider the ragged limit for that engine. The 3V's ECM, too, had to accommodate for lean and rich conditions, ****ty gasoline, etc, and I don't think I've ever heard of one blowing up running the Ford Racing tune -- and that kit makes some insane power.
Plus the Adaptive Spark Ignition from Bullitt/10 GT is probably refined further for the 5.0. So its not like they didn't think about variations in fuel.