JoeMidnight

Hey Jefx, I can sympathize. It's highly annoying to have car troubles regardless of the age of the car and or if the car does or doesn't have warranty. I agree, it could be a deadly weapon by not being able to steer, no doubt. Hopefully one would think to use the functioning brakes within the vehicle and bring that 300HP vehicle to a safe and complete stop and just wait to tow it. I'm sure that anyone around you would very much appreciate that over trying to navigate a car that's just broke down, potentially putting yourself and others around you at risk.

My wife just had an engine rebuild on her brand new 2014 Santa Fe Sport with 6,000KM on it. its life. **** happens unfortunately.

I would take a power steering failure over an engine rebuild any day of the week,

GtStang4

Dealer replacing rack & pinion, should be ready tomorrow. 3 yr warranty ends tomorrow.

jefx

The dealer is also replacing my rack.... says it cant be repaired.

I understand that **** happens... im not naive. Ive been wrenching on my own stuff all my life. Its not even the age of my vehicle that bothers me. Ive experienced just about every type of vehicle failure there is over the years.

What concerns me is the lack of engineering redundancy in such a vital safety system.

The EPAS is Electric Power Assisted Steering..... its supposed to ASSIST the steering effort of the driver. Not render it undrivable and deadly if it fails.

Apparently some people accept this type of failure as "**** happens". I personally think its a big deal, and hope no one dies because of this type of engineering oversight.

As a consumer, i dont have alot of options in voicing my concern about such a problem. However this is one of them, and Im using it. Flame me if you must.

Joeywhat

It doesn't make the car undriveable if it fails, I can turn my wheels just fine with the car off (with or without it moving).

Of course, if there is some catostrophic failure then you may not be able to steer the car any longer. That is the case with ANY system, including the standard hydraulic assist steering. If you sheer gears in a traditional steering system the car still won't turn...

So I don't see what the big deal is.

JoeMidnight

I could honestly say that - if I felt as strongly about this as you do, I would take my voice up the ford Management food chain and make sure that my voice were heard. Ask for proof that this part in the car is not some kind of design flaw or a known mechanical crapshoot that they're putting in these cars and ask for something to help assure you that these cars are safe. It really is unfortunate that even 1 out of 100 may fail ( Purely speculating, ratio's could be much better or worse)

there are a lot of things that could go wrong with a car that could lead to fatality. I've been there and have had A LOT of things go wrong with cars.


I bought a brand new 2011 Hyundai Elantra and had nothing but issues with the car. minor for the most part but, I got rid of it as soon as i put 100,000KM (warranty went out on it) on it for another more "reliable" vehicle which turned out to be even worse (santa fe)

this is why I personally have that mentality of "**** happens"

Good Luck!

hopefully, you can get some kind of acknowledgement that will put your issues at ease.

5.M0NSTER

Ditto. It's supposed to be safe enough to pull over to the side of the road, come to a safe stop, and get towed. It's not intended to be continuously driven with the failure present. THAT may be unsafe, but you do it at your own risk.

cdynaco

So your failure was not EPAS, but the rack.

In my other 2010 car (no EPAS) I had to have a rack replaced under warranty due to back pressure through the fluid reservoir. They are no longer serviceable, they just replace it.

So your rant against Ford and their EPAS is totally off base. Are you going to write Mulally and apologize?

Joeywhat

Right, I've driven all sorts of vehicles while the engine was off (or the power steering for whatever reason wasn't working), and I never really felt much difference between my Focus & Mustang and anything with hydraulic steering. They both require a ton of effort to drive at low speeds.

houtex

Joey brings up a good point.

One time, my father had taken his Caddy to a shop to get the steering repaired for some reason... I don't remember what the issue was.

Well, they fixed it... and then promptly forgot to put the cotter pin on one of the tie rod ends' nut.

Well, that **** nut backed right on out and the steering went all *kinds* of sideways when he hit a speed bump. Lost the nut too, it went *thataway*.

So in his case, the steering broke was so bad, it did render the car undriveable. We just knew what it was. There would have been little to nothing that could be done except try to steer it with the one wheel that did work, against the other that was doing it's level best to wrap itself under the driver floorboard.

Good thing he was going slow in the neighborhood. If that had been on the freeway?

jefx

I dont know who Mulally is.

Anyway, yes, my EPAS was faulty. The entire unit is being replaced. It is a rack and pinion system with an integrated electronic motor. They were advised by Ford not to repair it, but to entirely replace it under warranty.

If you consider my concern as a rant, then so be it, but it's not off base.

If you or anyone else is willing to accept this type of failure as not a big deal, then so be it.

Im also not anti- Ford. I own 2 mustangs, an F150, and a Ranger, I've also owned several other Ford and GM vehicles.

Apparently, its a bigger deal to me, because it happened to me. Im grateful that it happened at a convenient time and no one got hurt.

If/when it happens to any of you, and if/when it causes an accident involving injury or death, we will see if "**** happens" is still as cool as it is here.

cdynaco

Oops - my bad. Thought the EPAS was a separate unit from the rack. You just said the rack and pinion were being replaced.

Either way, as has been said, stuff happens (sometimes on a major part sometimes minor) and its being repaired under warranty.

Just be glad the throttle didn't stick on your Prius.

5.M0NSTER

The electronic throttle unit did stick on my wife's Caliber. But even though this was a Chrysler product it failed in the safest position... barely open. I was quite happy about that too

5.M0NSTER

Man, we hear you. It's upsetting to have a severe failure happen to any car, particularly one that's very new. I've had some major things fail on vehicle, and I work in the auto industry. I was still mad. I know the REALLY bad failure modes out there which are still in the field due to "extremely low occurrence probability".

And the systems I work on (electronic brake controllers) are designed to fail in a way that gets you pulled over safety. We have a mode called "no new control". That means if it fails in the middle of a brake apply, we make sure you stop before the system totally fails. But don't try to drive to gram-ma's house after that. Steering systems are similar. So take it from me when I tell you the system is designed to get you stopped on the side of the road safely (which you managed to do). But that is it. Everything else is at your own risk. I don't know what else you expect. If a wheel bearing fails and locks up a wheel there is literally NOTHING else that can be done to make that failure safe from a design point of view. Same goes for many other failures out there. If the teeth in the rack/pinion break, there is NOTHING else that can be done. And fully redundant systems are cool, as long as you're willing to pay the $60k price tag for a completely base car. But I doubt you would be. So with that in mind the engineering process is about managing risk. And therefore residual failures are a fact of life.

cdynaco

Its not that - its that you join TMS only to start a ***** thread. No intro, no other posts. All 9 in this thread.

We'll see if you stick around or just came to spread stuff. Which may or may not be true.

kylerohde

CEO of Ford, savior of the company, one of the greatest CEO's ever, leaving Ford at the end of June...

GtStang4

You quoted my post above, I did not rant against Ford. Not happy about the situation but glad it is under warranty. I have a few more posts than the thread starter, if that matters.

cdynaco

I was referring to the OP - the 9 post wonder jefx - about the 'rant'. Who also repeated the 'rack was being replaced' - no comment about EPAS being replaced. Sorry for any confusion.

FordService

Welcome to the forum, jefx. I’m glad your dealers have taken care of this for you guys. If you’d like me to get this documented for you, PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number.

Deysha

jefx

Thank you Deysha, I will take you up on that offer. I would like this information documented by Ford so that maybe it will help someone else in some way.

jefx

As you have pointed out, post count has no bearing on knowledge. The Post Master General cdynaco with 14,000 posts is a perfect example of this.

Based on the quality of contribution you have added to this thread, I feel that I should offer a simplified explanation of how power steering works.

The rack is a shaft with gear-like teeth machined into it on one side for the length of the shaft. It slides back and forth in the steering housing. Tie rods are attached to the ends of the rack, which extend to the wheels. A pinion gear is mounted in a stationary location inside the housing, and the teeth are meshed with the rack. Driver input rotates the pinion gear allowing the rack to slide from one side to the other, thus turning the wheels. This is a basic rack and pinion steering system.

A conventional hydraulic power steering system uses a hydraulic pump powered by an engine belt to add hydraulic pressure to the rack and pinion to ease steering effort.

The EPAS uses an electric motor in place of the conventional hydraulic pump to ease steering effort.

The fact that Ford recommends placing the entire rack and pinion steering assembly instead of just the electric motor suggests that the motor is an integrated unit that either cannot be serviced or replaced.
This entire unit is usually referred to as "The Rack" or "Steering Rack". Since the EPAS is integrated into the unit, replacing "The Rack" is the same thing as replacing the "EPAS".

Replacing just the actual steering rack inside the steering assembly is not cost effective, and in some cases, may not even be possible.