Varilux

I drive my '14 GT (just turned 10k miles) in bumper to bumper traffic on my commute to/from work. So I spend a lot of time rowing up and down through the first 4 gears. On average once a day the car will stall when I hit and hold the clutch when traffic stops. Its getting really really really annoying.

I've been watching things to try and figure out the conditions. From what I can tell:
1.) It seems to occur mostly when the A/C is running.
2.) It occurs on the afternoon drive much more often than in the morning (afternoon is 20 degrees warmer).
3.) Usually when I depress the clutch (with foot off the gas), the RPMs will hold momentarily and then gently descend. The stalling occurs when the RPMs just "dive" upon clutch engagement.
4.) When this happens, the RPMs will drop suddenly, and go down to around 400 RPM. There's a flutter, which is usually recovered (the RPMs shoot back up to 1000RPM, then gently down to 700). About once a day, the engine doesn't recover and the car stalls.

I am running the Ford Racing Tune, don't know if that has anything to do with it. I plan on pulling up the Air/Fuel Ratio gauge on the drive home tonight to see if there's any relationship there (based on some other posts on stalling).

Any suggestions? I know if I take it to the dealer the car won't do it during the test drive (just Murphy's Law). However, it does the flutter thing quite often, so maybe the mechanic will at least notice that.

JoeMidnight

you might have a better chance of reproducing this issue by driving it yourself while the mechanic is the passenger than the mechanic driving it. If you're doing something that's causing the issue, they may notice it and point it out to you.



to me, it sounds like you aren't giving it enough gas to get going while the car is under more load (A/C)

Varilux

Good idea...

Regarding getting enough gas under load. I know what you mean, and I don't have a problem with stalling when starting from a stop.

To clarify, the issue is when I am already moving (usually in 2nd or 3rd) and traffic stops, I will depress and hold the clutch as I coast up to traffic. When the clutch is depressed, the RPMs drop too far and the car flutters and stops.

The car is under no load when it stalls (the clutch is depressed when it happens).

JoeMidnight

OH..... yah. okay. I gotcha.

have you tried to let it coast in the neutral position rather than holding the clutch while coming to a stop from 2nd or 3rd? doesn't hurt to try and see what happens and how the car behaves. Might give you and possibly the mechanic some insight.

cdynaco

Reinstall the factory tune and see if it still does it. Seems to me the ECU isn't countering the load of the A/C, or somehow its MAF related.

Varilux

I had thought of "de-installing" the tune as well (which would bug me to no end, since the dealer charged me $200 to install it in the first place... I should have just installed it myself, but bought into the "peace of mind of keeping the warranty" blah, blah, blah).

I'm torn between de-installing myself (which I can easily do- I still have the Ford Racing device and chip) and taking it to the dealer and telling them to "fix it under warranty" (at which point I suspect they'll say the tune is causing the problem).

Regarding staying in gear or going to neutral- I've tried both and the car will sometimes stall with either scenario.

I agree that it is probably an ECU issue (I think something related to the throttle position sensor, or maybe something to do with the Air/Fuel Ratio). Ironically, my '65 Mustang has the same issue with stalling when the A/C is on (but it just takes a screwdriver and a quarter turn to increase the idle speed by about 100 RPMs to fix it on the '65 ).

I'll try paying more attention to the A/F Ratio on the drive home, and will probably try de-tuning this weekend to see what happens. A couple people have PM'd me to say they are having the same issue (and they both have the Ford Racing tune as well)- so it is likely related to the tune.

xlover

I would bring it to the dealer, the reason for getting the ford racing tune is so you keep the warranty. Meaning the car is expected to behave normally with it so if they tell you to just get rid of the tune then they are not supporting the warranty on the tune. If they are not helpful pm deysha and she will get them moving. The ford racing stuff is not supposed to compromise drivability at all.

Boomer

Did you ever go through the motions of disconnecting the battery, reconnecting, learning idle procedure?


Reconnect the battery, start, warm up, let it idle, turn on the AC, let it idle etc. (should be in the owners manual)
Also dirty throttle body?


I had the same issue on my stock 05 at one point years ago after coming out of storage.
AC idle was so low it would studder and borderline stall when the clutch was pushed and the RPMs dropped.


Relearn and a clean TB fixed the issue.

Varilux

Haven't tried that- and I could just see the dealer not doing that either (it has been a problem since day one on the new tune). I will try that one tonight (I have the nav system, so I'm guessing there is going to be a lot of programming with the radio that is lost, but it would be worth it).

Boomer

They could have easily tuned it, started it and drove it.


It says the system learns and adapts over time, but mine never did get a proper idle when the AC was turned on until I reset/relearned.


And my TB was dirty, even without taking it off I was able to clean a lot of grime on a cloth behind the blades.


Can't hurt to try those.

typesredline

I remember reading that and hearing about it before Pete.

In this context it sounds like sometimes it may relearn by itself after reflash. And sometimes it may need and battery disconnect and manual relearn.

WhiteBird00

Using the Ford Racing tune does not maintain the Ford factory warranty. Like any other tune, it can actually invalidate the factory warranty. The difference is that FRP provides its own separate equivalent warranty. FRP is a completely separate but wholly owned subsidiary of FMC.

That may seem like splitting hairs but not all Ford dealers are FRP dealers so you could be denied warranty coverage at some dealers if it was determined that the FRP part (or tune) caused the problem.

laserred38

Just out of curiosity, are you running the most current updated FRPP tune?

Varilux

The dealer who installed the tune was the dealer where I purchased the car (and the service manager said they are a FRP dealer). So, I would hope if I did visit the dealer there would be no problems.

Regarding the version, I don't really know what version I have. It was purchased and installed about 14-15 months ago (probably June '13). I was going to try and find an email contact for FRP, email them my issue and my VIN (which I'm guessing they'll have on file), and see if they have any suggestions. Looking at the box, the part number reads "M-12655-D" (don't know if that is the version or not though).

Of course today the car did not stall (or act up, really... first time in a while). I was closely monitoring the A/F Ratio (when you coast with the car in gear it takes a couple seconds and then the A/F Ratio pegs out at 20... when you depress the clutch the ratio eventually plunges to 10 or 12, then goes back to its normal reading of 14). On the rare occasions where it fluttered a little today, it would plunge and then stay around 10-12 for a second or two.

I'm going to disconnect the battery and let it try a relearn following the posted procedure this weekend. If that doesn't work, I may call the dealer on Monday.

laserred38

The newest version of the tune came out last week, but the FRPP reps on here have said it didn't change other than the sensor issue, but it probably wouldn't hurt to have the updated tune installed...

FordService

Hey Varilux,

I agree with JoeMidnight. You should go on the test drive with your tech/service advisor. This way you can show them what you’re experiencing. Also, as xlover (thanks for the support!) mentioned, is best to have your dealer do all the work since your vehicle and tune are under warranty.

I’m happy to escalate this to the customer service manager for your area as well. PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number.

Deysha

Varilux

Thanks for all the replies, advice, and for the offer to help with my local service department.

I disconnected the battery last night for 30 minutes (for those who are wondering, a battery disconnect will not change any settings on the radio, your linked cell phones, etc.- in fact, I use my "Trip B" to log all the miles since I took delivery, and even that was unaffected).

Anyway, I followed the start-up procedure posted above, and... we'll see. The A/F Ratio gauge was bouncing all over the place on the drive to work this morning, but at first it seemed like the idle was a bit steadier (at 750rpm). I did manage to have it dip hard once. I was on it a bit in 3rd, a car pulled in front of me (stupid Honda drivers), and when I depressed and held the clutch in the rpms nose-dived to 400rpm. However, whereas before the rpms would flutter and sometimes die, this time the computer seemed to catch it and it snapped right back up to a normal idle.

I still think there is a flaw in the overall programming somewhere, because there should not be scenarios where the rpms are allowed to plummet like that.

I am going to call Ford Racing today, ask some questions, and- if need be- go to my dealer to speak with a tech this afternoon on the way home (at which point I'll PM all my info, Deysha).

Boomer

Interesting.
Best of luck and keep us posted.


Curious on the outcome.

Stage_3

I hope you get your problem fixed soon. Sorry to hear.
Maybe it has a something to do with your alternator? The only reason I say this is because of the rough RMP's up and down and then finally stalling.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Varilux

I called Ford Racing yesterday. The service rep who answered the phone indicated he had never heard of this kind of problem.

After assuring him that others were experiencing the same issue, he mentioned that one of the tuner techs had asked him to pass on any drivability complaints like this, so could I send him my info and a detailed description of the problem?

I sent in my VIN, ECU number, and a detailed description, and he says the tech will look into it and get back to me. I'm looking forward to their response. The RPMs are still occasionally "diving," but- for now at least- they seem to bounce back much quicker- and the car hasn't stalled yet.

In the meantime, I have noticed a side-effect of disconnecting the battery! I always prefer to have the climate control set to "recirculate," but sometimes I forget to hit the button. I've always wished I could set the system to default to recirc. Anyway, when I reset the climate controls after disconnecting the battery, I've noticed the system now sets itself to recirc every time I start the car!