05-08 Style Spoilers Phased out in 09
Cobra Member
Joined: September 10, 2004
Posts: 1,302
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From: Charlotte NC
lf find myself kinda surprised by those who seem... well....kinda surprised that the next Mustang will be a more modern take on the original than is this one. Frankly, that would seem like the next logical progression after starting the originals design eveolution all over again. I fail to see how this means Ford is changing their collective opinion on the path future Mustangs will take.
Rhumb didn't say this and I don't want anyone on the forum to get the wrong idea, but many on this forum have espoused the belief that this means Ford is backing away from their philosophy toward the Mustang somehow as I indicate above. Frankly, I think what is occuring is exactly what logic dictated would happen and have no idea exactly what these folks were thinking Ford was going to do to the Mustang in the future.
As has been pointed out on here before Ford seems to have taken a "911 approach" to the Mustang deciding that continual evolution of the original styling should have been the target all along. Since that didn't happen Ford took the Mustang back to what it might have been at this point had that indeed occured. From this point on I would expect that shape to evolve, but never be reinvented.
Will this model be more refined and more modern than the current car? it seems that way and I certainly hope so. And I would expect that the next generation will be updated in much the same fashion, continually refining the original concept. In fact, major changes being centered around the rear floorpan and hips even sounds like a typical 911 update.
Rhumb didn't say this and I don't want anyone on the forum to get the wrong idea, but many on this forum have espoused the belief that this means Ford is backing away from their philosophy toward the Mustang somehow as I indicate above. Frankly, I think what is occuring is exactly what logic dictated would happen and have no idea exactly what these folks were thinking Ford was going to do to the Mustang in the future.
As has been pointed out on here before Ford seems to have taken a "911 approach" to the Mustang deciding that continual evolution of the original styling should have been the target all along. Since that didn't happen Ford took the Mustang back to what it might have been at this point had that indeed occured. From this point on I would expect that shape to evolve, but never be reinvented.
Will this model be more refined and more modern than the current car? it seems that way and I certainly hope so. And I would expect that the next generation will be updated in much the same fashion, continually refining the original concept. In fact, major changes being centered around the rear floorpan and hips even sounds like a typical 911 update.
Team Mustang Source Legacy Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 1,679
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas
Yeah, the control blade IRS looks like a pretty sweet design, very little weight difference between it and the current live-axle. Wonder if they'll make one we can bolt-in to the S197s. That'd be fantastic!
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
You guys realize back in 03/04 that the IRS was part of the redesign/rumours back for the 05 right?
Just wondering when they were testing, if it was infact the suspension on the car, or they had something else.
Just wondering when they were testing, if it was infact the suspension on the car, or they had something else.
Bullitt Member
Joined: August 30, 2005
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
I agree with jsaylor that from this point on, it should just be evolutionary refinements and improvements, and the 911 is a great example of this. Designers and engineers can focus on continual improvements without the problem of trying to reinvent the car ever so often. There is plenty of substance in this current design for this to happen, I think. At this point, I would hate to see a radical departure just for the sake of novelty. And they need to offer up an IRS that works, but a solid axle option as well for the straight-liners.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
Likes: 2,512
From: Carnegie, PA
09 is the update year ? which will be released during the 10 model year as a 10..the original update was to take place in late 08 during the 09 model year until Ford pushed the release date back one year
GT Member
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 187
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Fixed that for ya!
Makes me wonder just how little they had in store for Mustang. And 12 full months to rethink a segment creating product already planned for an update is a solid reevaluation.They are still talking a full redesign further out( in 2011 as the 12 MY) and if there is a then(and I waffle on that daily) we should be feeling the effects of the moves being made right now in FHQ.
Was Ford bringing a knife to a gunfight?
Has somebody spotted something critical
we haven't suggested yet?Did we avert disaster with our cry of pain last week?
Tune in to "As the Stang's skins turn" and hope that Allan and Mark don't have evil twins seeking doom...
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
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From: Carnegie, PA
Fixed that for ya!
Makes me wonder just how little they had in store for Mustang. And 12 full months to rethink a segment creating product already planned for an update is a solid reevaluation.They are still talking a full redesign further out( in 2011 as the 12 MY) and if there is a then(and I waffle on that daily) we should be feeling the effects of the moves being made right now in FHQ.
Was Ford bringing a knife to a gunfight?
Has somebody spotted something critical we haven't suggested yet?
Did we avert disaster with our cry of pain last week?
Tune in to "As the Stang's skins turn" and hope that Allan and Mark don't have evil twins seeking doom...
Makes me wonder just how little they had in store for Mustang. And 12 full months to rethink a segment creating product already planned for an update is a solid reevaluation.They are still talking a full redesign further out( in 2011 as the 12 MY) and if there is a then(and I waffle on that daily) we should be feeling the effects of the moves being made right now in FHQ.
Was Ford bringing a knife to a gunfight?
Has somebody spotted something critical
we haven't suggested yet?Did we avert disaster with our cry of pain last week?
Tune in to "As the Stang's skins turn" and hope that Allan and Mark don't have evil twins seeking doom...
As for Ford's thinking about redesigning the Stang in 2011-12 ?? it doesn't make any sense to me either 
I can understand the facelifting part to keep everything fresh and updated but there's no reason why the entire design needs to be changed in less than 10 years ?? especially when there's nothing wrong about the current D2C platform as it is.. case in point ?? the SN-95 platform lasted 10 years and the previous fox platform lasted 24 years, inlcuding fox-4 once again (SN-95) So if Ford is so concerned about rising production costs ? all they need to do is follow just one basic rule ?? if it anit broke ?? don't fix it..Anyway, Merry Chirstmas and have a safe and Happy New Year's Eve..
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
Thanks for fixing that for me Rob ? I'm very grateful As for Ford's thinking about redesigning the Stang in 2011-12 ?? it doesn't make any sense to me either I can understand the facelifting part to keep everything fresh and updated but there's no reason why the entire design needs to be changed in less than 10 years ?? especially when there's nothing wrong about the current D2C platform as it is.. case in point ?? the SN-95 platform lasted 10 years and the previous fox platform lasted 24 years, inlcuding fox-4 once again (SN-95) So if Ford is so concerned about rising production costs ? all they need to do is follow just one basic rule ?? if it anit broke ?? don't fix it..Anyway, Merry Chirstmas and have a safe and Happy New Year's Eve..
As for Ford's thinking about redesigning the Stang in 2011-12 ?? it doesn't make any sense to me either I can understand the facelifting part to keep everything fresh and updated but there's no reason why the entire design needs to be changed in less than 10 years ?? especially when there's nothing wrong about the current D2C platform as it is.. case in point ?? the SN-95 platform lasted 10 years and the previous fox platform lasted 24 years, inlcuding fox-4 once again (SN-95) So if Ford is so concerned about rising production costs ? all they need to do is follow just one basic rule ?? if it anit broke ?? don't fix it..Anyway, Merry Chirstmas and have a safe and Happy New Year's Eve..
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
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From: Carnegie, PA
The pace of change is ever increasing in the car business. Just because you milked 10 years out of the last design doesn't mean you can do it today. Sales of the last Mustang really dropped off the last couple years. The SN-95 Mustang design was obsolete the day it was introduced. Ford is in deep trouble today because it has not kept many of it's vehicles up to date and competitive. The sooner S197 and it's D2C platform is updated or replaced the better. The 2005+ Stang is by no means a perfect car.
and although the 2005+ Stang is not a perfect car ? the bottom line is..it's currently just 2 years old and completely Hi-Tech from the ground up compared to the previous SN-95 platform..
FR500 Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3,084
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From: Honolulu
Your sure right about the SN-95 design being obsolete when introduced in 94 ? Ford continued using the Fox platform although it was updated and named Fox-4 but never the less ? the chassis itself was 15 years old to begin with when the SN-95 was introduced..So I definitely see your point but I don't see any reason as to why Ford cannot hold off until 2015 before either updating D2C or replacing it... D2C as of right now is just 2 years old and completely Hi-Tech compared to the previous SN-95 platform..
D2C as of right now is just 2 years old and completely Hi-Tech compared to the previous SN-95 platform..One should hope the D2C is light-years ahead of the Fox/SN95 chassis given the origins of the Fox chassis. However, the D2C will be facing newer designs from other companies in the near future, and they usually have them updated more frequently compared to Ford.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
The competitive nature of the auto industry does not reward this kind of thinking. (Look at the Japanese car companies product development cycle, for example.)
One should hope the D2C is light-years ahead of the Fox/SN95 chassis given the origins of the Fox chassis. However, the D2C will be facing newer designs from other companies in the near future, and they usually have them updated more frequently compared to Ford.
One should hope the D2C is light-years ahead of the Fox/SN95 chassis given the origins of the Fox chassis. However, the D2C will be facing newer designs from other companies in the near future, and they usually have them updated more frequently compared to Ford.
I don't know guess I'm just from the old school and it times I find it difficult when it comes to accepting change..
FR500 Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3,084
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From: Honolulu
I'd venture to say the 911's basic layout has stayed the same, but I wouldn't say the same applies to the actual chassis itself. It would be nice for someone who really likes Porsches to chime in on this. Even within Porsche, the Cayman/Boxter are probably more capable performers owing to their newer design and layout - imagine if they were outfitted with 911 spec. engines/power outputs. All in all though, the 911 is "timeless" in the sense that the same basic formula has proven so successful. Maybe the Corvette would've been a better subject for comparison since it's from a US manufacturer, V8-powered, F/R layout, has been around almost as long as the 911, and seen a similar path in its evolution throughout the years.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
I'd venture to say the 911's basic layout has stayed the same, but I wouldn't say the same applies to the actual chassis itself. It would be nice for someone who really likes Porsches to chime in on this. Even within Porsche, the Cayman/Boxter are probably more capable performers owing to their newer design and layout - imagine if they were outfitted with 911 spec. engines/power outputs. All in all though, the 911 is "timeless" in the sense that the same basic formula has proven so successful. Maybe the Corvette would've been a better subject for comparison since it's from a US manufacturer, V8-powered, F/R layout, has been around almost as long as the 911, and seen a similar path in its evolution throughout the years.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
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Good point hi5.0. I'd guess that the current Porsche 911 does not share a single part with the original 911, but almost everyone on the planet can recognize both a 1966 911 and a 2006 911 as Porsches and 911s.
Ford needs to use the same design philosopy with the next generation Stang. When S-197 was introduced HTT was very proud that it was easily recognizable as a Mustang. The next Mustang MUST accomplish the same.
And, for God's sake, let's hope that Ford NEVER AGAIN tries to squeeze 25 years out of a Mustang platform!
Ford needs to use the same design philosopy with the next generation Stang. When S-197 was introduced HTT was very proud that it was easily recognizable as a Mustang. The next Mustang MUST accomplish the same.
And, for God's sake, let's hope that Ford NEVER AGAIN tries to squeeze 25 years out of a Mustang platform!
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
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From: Carnegie, PA
Good point hi5.0. I'd guess that the current Porsche 911 does not share a single part with the original 911, but almost everyone on the planet can recognize both a 1966 911 and a 2006 911 as Porsches and 911s.
Ford needs to use the same design philosopy with the next generation Stang. When S-197 was introduced HTT was very proud that it was easily recognizable as a Mustang. The next Mustang MUST accomplish the same.
And, for God's sake, let's hope that Ford NEVER AGAIN tries to squeeze 25 years out of a Mustang platform!
Ford needs to use the same design philosopy with the next generation Stang. When S-197 was introduced HTT was very proud that it was easily recognizable as a Mustang. The next Mustang MUST accomplish the same.
And, for God's sake, let's hope that Ford NEVER AGAIN tries to squeeze 25 years out of a Mustang platform!
FR500 Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3,084
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From: Honolulu
m05fastbackGT, I understand what you're saying about the Mustang "look"/styling - agree with you wholeheartedly there that Ford shouldn't mess with it (too much). "If it ain't broke..." and all that. If you think about it, Ford's pretty much kept the basic formula throughout the years - even with the biggest styling departure being the Fox-bodied/early SN95 cars. Yet they still had the basic "long hood/short deck (trunk)" proportions of the original. I think one can see it when looking at a 5.0 LX notchback and a 1st-gen coupe... but that's JMO!
The S197, is a great starting point for Ford to "evolve" the Mustang's styling into the future - even if the chassis will have to change at some point. Despite some head-scratching moves made by Ford, I doubt the company would seriously mess with a successful formula like this (but you never know!) Quite a few people mentioned wanting "hips", (maybe) an integrated ducktail on the rear deck, and other "classic" cues for the refresh/redesign. Making cosmetic changes doesn't mean having to get rid of the D2C and tweaking the chassis doesn't mean getting rid of the styling either. Cases in point - the "SN65" conversion or those who added a Cobra IRS to their 1st gen chassis. Just hope its success doesn't "trap" Ford into recycling the looks so much so that it becomes a bad cliche. Whew!
The S197, is a great starting point for Ford to "evolve" the Mustang's styling into the future - even if the chassis will have to change at some point. Despite some head-scratching moves made by Ford, I doubt the company would seriously mess with a successful formula like this (but you never know!) Quite a few people mentioned wanting "hips", (maybe) an integrated ducktail on the rear deck, and other "classic" cues for the refresh/redesign. Making cosmetic changes doesn't mean having to get rid of the D2C and tweaking the chassis doesn't mean getting rid of the styling either. Cases in point - the "SN65" conversion or those who added a Cobra IRS to their 1st gen chassis. Just hope its success doesn't "trap" Ford into recycling the looks so much so that it becomes a bad cliche. Whew!
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
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D2C = Platform = the mechanicals & electronics under the sheet metal
S197 = Project # for the 2005 Mustang.
As hi5.0 said, a new Mustang could be built with entirely new mechanicals (platform) and still have sheet metal on top that will make it look like a Mustang.
Don't forget the 2005 Mustang concept was built on D/EW-98 and most people seemed to recognize it as a Mustang.
S197 = Project # for the 2005 Mustang.
As hi5.0 said, a new Mustang could be built with entirely new mechanicals (platform) and still have sheet metal on top that will make it look like a Mustang.
Don't forget the 2005 Mustang concept was built on D/EW-98 and most people seemed to recognize it as a Mustang.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
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From: Carnegie, PA
m05fastbackGT, I understand what you're saying about the Mustang "look"/styling - agree with you wholeheartedly there that Ford shouldn't mess with it (too much). "If it ain't broke..." and all that. If you think about it, Ford's pretty much kept the basic formula throughout the years - even with the biggest styling departure being the Fox-bodied/early SN95 cars. Yet they still had the basic "long hood/short deck (trunk)" proportions of the original. I think one can see it when looking at a 5.0 LX notchback and a 1st-gen coupe... but that's JMO!
The S197, is a great starting point for Ford to "evolve" the Mustang's styling into the future - even if the chassis will have to change at some point. Despite some head-scratching moves made by Ford, I doubt the company would seriously mess with a successful formula like this (but you never know!) Quite a few people mentioned wanting "hips", (maybe) an integrated ducktail on the rear deck, and other "classic" cues for the refresh/redesign. Making cosmetic changes doesn't mean having to get rid of the D2C and tweaking the chassis doesn't mean getting rid of the styling either. Cases in point - the "SN65" conversion or those who added a Cobra IRS to their 1st gen chassis. Just hope its success doesn't "trap" Ford into recycling the looks so much so that it becomes a bad cliche. Whew!
The S197, is a great starting point for Ford to "evolve" the Mustang's styling into the future - even if the chassis will have to change at some point. Despite some head-scratching moves made by Ford, I doubt the company would seriously mess with a successful formula like this (but you never know!) Quite a few people mentioned wanting "hips", (maybe) an integrated ducktail on the rear deck, and other "classic" cues for the refresh/redesign. Making cosmetic changes doesn't mean having to get rid of the D2C and tweaking the chassis doesn't mean getting rid of the styling either. Cases in point - the "SN65" conversion or those who added a Cobra IRS to their 1st gen chassis. Just hope its success doesn't "trap" Ford into recycling the looks so much so that it becomes a bad cliche. Whew!
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
Likes: 2,512
From: Carnegie, PA
D2C = Platform = the mechanicals & electronics under the sheet metal
S197 = Project # for the 2005 Mustang.
As hi5.0 said, a new Mustang could be built with entirely new mechanicals (platform) and still have sheet metal on top that will make it look like a Mustang.
Don't forget the 2005 Mustang concept was built on D/EW-98 and most people seemed to recognize it as a Mustang.
S197 = Project # for the 2005 Mustang.
As hi5.0 said, a new Mustang could be built with entirely new mechanicals (platform) and still have sheet metal on top that will make it look like a Mustang.
Don't forget the 2005 Mustang concept was built on D/EW-98 and most people seemed to recognize it as a Mustang.