Would you like to buy a 60mpg F150?
2/16/06, 11:33 AM
#21
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mustang_sallad @ February 15, 2006, 8:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Rock on! I do believe i was a ford fan before i became a mustang fan. And trust me, my annoyed tone was not directed at mods but at kevin with whom i seem to have developed some kind of thread battle lately. Any wages on who gets the next scoop?
and by scoop... i mean, being the first to notice some actual auto news web sites scoop and repost it here.
[/b][/quote]
Dont get me started on that again, you really need a smack upside the head [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif[/img] You and 'to be human' are stuck in a chicken or the egg argument, that has no bearing on why hybrids get more mileage in the city. I need to break out the crayolas for you two.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
On the hydraulic hybrid ; its intended as a full hybrid, not just the launch device in the Tonka. I think that was a 'test the waters' look at hydraulics to just get it out there before developing something that just shows up all of a sudden.
Rock on! I do believe i was a ford fan before i became a mustang fan. And trust me, my annoyed tone was not directed at mods but at kevin with whom i seem to have developed some kind of thread battle lately. Any wages on who gets the next scoop?
and by scoop... i mean, being the first to notice some actual auto news web sites scoop and repost it here.
[/b][/quote]
Dont get me started on that again, you really need a smack upside the head [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif[/img] You and 'to be human' are stuck in a chicken or the egg argument, that has no bearing on why hybrids get more mileage in the city. I need to break out the crayolas for you two.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
On the hydraulic hybrid ; its intended as a full hybrid, not just the launch device in the Tonka. I think that was a 'test the waters' look at hydraulics to just get it out there before developing something that just shows up all of a sudden.
2/18/06, 07:35 PM
#22
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kevinb120 @ February 14, 2006, 11:39 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Do you have any drawings of the nuclear F350? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Only the mushroom cloud that was left after they fired it up. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Re the hydraulic hybrid technology - it sounds like an interesting "stop gap" technology for trucks in the interim. But ultimately, we will have no choice but to get off fossil fuels, as it makes us too dependent on unstable parts of the world; contributes to the serious global warming problem; makes the air in big cities all but unbreathable; and is a finite resource. (And it would be wise if we could find that solution before every one of the two billion people in China decide that they all want cars!)
I still believe that BMW has the right idea with their full hydrogen-fueled internal combustion engine. We just need to overcome the problem of hydrogen being too energy-intensive to create right now; the safety concerns (no biggie, gasoline engines would NEVER meet safety standards if they were introduced TODAY); and the infrastructure to set up secure refueling stations across the continent. The last two can be resolved - the first one will be the real trick.
But it will come in time.
On the other hand, I don't see the fuel-cell engine concept ever being practical or widely adopted.
Do you have any drawings of the nuclear F350? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon24.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Only the mushroom cloud that was left after they fired it up. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
Re the hydraulic hybrid technology - it sounds like an interesting "stop gap" technology for trucks in the interim. But ultimately, we will have no choice but to get off fossil fuels, as it makes us too dependent on unstable parts of the world; contributes to the serious global warming problem; makes the air in big cities all but unbreathable; and is a finite resource. (And it would be wise if we could find that solution before every one of the two billion people in China decide that they all want cars!)
I still believe that BMW has the right idea with their full hydrogen-fueled internal combustion engine. We just need to overcome the problem of hydrogen being too energy-intensive to create right now; the safety concerns (no biggie, gasoline engines would NEVER meet safety standards if they were introduced TODAY); and the infrastructure to set up secure refueling stations across the continent. The last two can be resolved - the first one will be the real trick.
But it will come in time.
On the other hand, I don't see the fuel-cell engine concept ever being practical or widely adopted.
2/19/06, 10:58 AM
#23
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I really don't think hydrogen has any chance in the next 20 years. I think the hydraulic is really the way for now, and getting off fossil fuels through biomass refining technology. Why not just change where the fuel comes from? Grow it instead of drilling. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] Even modern oil companies can have a hand in refining and marketing it, so they can still own thier politicians like they like to and bring this to market.
2/19/06, 04:42 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kevinb120 @ February 19, 2006, 10:01 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I really don't think hydrogen has any chance in the next 20 years.
[/b][/quote]
I agree, it will take some serious time - but it is definitely the energy source of the future, and WILL be sorted out this century.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kevinb120 @ February 19, 2006, 10:01 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Even modern oil companies can have a hand in refining and marketing it, so they can still own thier politicians like they like to and bring this to market.
[/b][/quote]
My guess would be they're already working on ways to monopolize the next energy source (god knows they have the money to do so!). But I don't see them porting over to another energy source until either: 1) they've squeezed every last available drop of oil out of the planet; 2) world governments (due to extreme political/social/environmental pressures) put an end to the oil economy. And I don't see the second one happening until a planetary disaster that is proven to be linked to global warming arrives.
And on that note, there have been several studies in recent months that report evidence that the global warming trend is accelerating and that its effects are actually larger then expected. According to a report by NASA/JPL last week, the glaciers of Greenland are now flowing out more then twice as fast as they were just 10 years ago.
The scariest part of this one is not the rising ocean levels, but the fact that all that fresh water flowing into the North Atlantic appears to be shutting down the Gulf Stream current that carries warm water from the south Atlantic to the north and off to Western Europe. The Gulf Stream is the reason why Western Europe is so much warmer then Eastern Canada when in fact it sits at a higher latitude. The effect of the Gulf Stream shutting down will be more hurricanes in the south and a drastic cooling off of Western Europe. Both will have a significant impact on the economies of those two regions.
Unless we get our total greenhouse emissions under control, our grandchildren will live in a VERY different world, geographically and climactically.
I really don't think hydrogen has any chance in the next 20 years.
[/b][/quote]
I agree, it will take some serious time - but it is definitely the energy source of the future, and WILL be sorted out this century.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kevinb120 @ February 19, 2006, 10:01 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Even modern oil companies can have a hand in refining and marketing it, so they can still own thier politicians like they like to and bring this to market.
[/b][/quote]
My guess would be they're already working on ways to monopolize the next energy source (god knows they have the money to do so!). But I don't see them porting over to another energy source until either: 1) they've squeezed every last available drop of oil out of the planet; 2) world governments (due to extreme political/social/environmental pressures) put an end to the oil economy. And I don't see the second one happening until a planetary disaster that is proven to be linked to global warming arrives.
And on that note, there have been several studies in recent months that report evidence that the global warming trend is accelerating and that its effects are actually larger then expected. According to a report by NASA/JPL last week, the glaciers of Greenland are now flowing out more then twice as fast as they were just 10 years ago.
The scariest part of this one is not the rising ocean levels, but the fact that all that fresh water flowing into the North Atlantic appears to be shutting down the Gulf Stream current that carries warm water from the south Atlantic to the north and off to Western Europe. The Gulf Stream is the reason why Western Europe is so much warmer then Eastern Canada when in fact it sits at a higher latitude. The effect of the Gulf Stream shutting down will be more hurricanes in the south and a drastic cooling off of Western Europe. Both will have a significant impact on the economies of those two regions.
Unless we get our total greenhouse emissions under control, our grandchildren will live in a VERY different world, geographically and climactically.
2/19/06, 11:46 PM
#25
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the way you guys are talking almost sounds like you're forgetting that hydrogen isn't a "source" of energy but rather a ... medium? i dunno if that's the right word, but i'm sure you know what i'm talking about. Hydrogen will be great for the cars, but it doesn't solve energy issues as a whole. Still gotta work out where you get the energy to make the hydrogen. Personally, i think we'll see a combination of a bunch of things, between wind, solar, hydro, all of which are just tapping the sun's energy in various ways... and it'd be awesome if we could survive on that alone. But even with the current set up, those three sources wouldn't be quite enough, i don't think. If you add on the load of fueling all the world's cars with hydrogen, the idea of getting all of our energy from those three sustainable sources seems pretty far fetched.
I think the solution is gonna have to be nuclear. Sure we definitely have some things to work out, storage of the waste for one thing. Sure its easy for me to say, but I think these are things that can be worked out.
Anyway... that's pretty off topic. Kevin, outside of our little argument on bon, i'm sure we agree on a lot of everything. I'm curious as to why you say hydraulic hybrids are the way for now. I'm not saying its not, i think both electrics and hydraulics have pros and cons...
Electrics of course add a lot of weight, batteries suck in terms of disposal, and their pretty expensive.
Hydraulics don't have the option of shutting off the engine at a stop. Or could they? I guess there really isn't a reason they couldn't have that, use the hydraulic motor as the starter for the IC engine. I know citroen put out a version of the C3 called the start/stop which wasn't a hybrid but would actually shut off the engine whenever appropriate. The good thing about the electric hybrids is that a lot of the technology going into them will be used on hydrogen fuel cell cars too. Although someone on here was saying they felt the hydrogen IC engines were better than the fuel cells. I can't say much about that, i don't really know much about fuel cells. I'm just guessing that if burning hydrogen in an IC engine were actually as good as using a fuel cell, a lot of smart people wouldn't be wasting their time with fuel cells right now. And the smart people know a lot more than me about what's going on.
I think the solution is gonna have to be nuclear. Sure we definitely have some things to work out, storage of the waste for one thing. Sure its easy for me to say, but I think these are things that can be worked out.
Anyway... that's pretty off topic. Kevin, outside of our little argument on bon, i'm sure we agree on a lot of everything. I'm curious as to why you say hydraulic hybrids are the way for now. I'm not saying its not, i think both electrics and hydraulics have pros and cons...
Electrics of course add a lot of weight, batteries suck in terms of disposal, and their pretty expensive.
Hydraulics don't have the option of shutting off the engine at a stop. Or could they? I guess there really isn't a reason they couldn't have that, use the hydraulic motor as the starter for the IC engine. I know citroen put out a version of the C3 called the start/stop which wasn't a hybrid but would actually shut off the engine whenever appropriate. The good thing about the electric hybrids is that a lot of the technology going into them will be used on hydrogen fuel cell cars too. Although someone on here was saying they felt the hydrogen IC engines were better than the fuel cells. I can't say much about that, i don't really know much about fuel cells. I'm just guessing that if burning hydrogen in an IC engine were actually as good as using a fuel cell, a lot of smart people wouldn't be wasting their time with fuel cells right now. And the smart people know a lot more than me about what's going on.
2/20/06, 04:39 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mustang_sallad @ February 19, 2006, 10:49 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think the solution is gonna have to be nuclear. Sure we definitely have some things to work out, storage of the waste for one thing. Sure its easy for me to say, but I think these are things that can be worked out.
[/b][/quote]
If there's one thing that the last 50 years have taught us, it's that nuclear power is not a suitable long-term solution for anything but the biggest energy needs (powering a few cities, use in spacecraft, etc). It's too corruptable in a politically fractured world, and the waste disposal issue is simply too daunting for a planet already stretching to the limits environmentally.
I agree hydrogen power requires us to work out the complexities of economically creating the hydrogen itself, but I'm reasonably certain that hurdle will be overcome sometime this century. Meanwhile, I agree, we'll see a combined solution.
The biggest problem the Earth faces - from which ALL these other issues stem - is overpopulation. Our planet cannot sustain any more people, and you will see both increasing environmental problems and wars over dwindling resources if this keeps up. I expect there will be a world symposium sometime this century to address, and find ways for governments to institute, mandatory population controls. Not a palatable thought, but desperate times will call for desperate measures.
I think the solution is gonna have to be nuclear. Sure we definitely have some things to work out, storage of the waste for one thing. Sure its easy for me to say, but I think these are things that can be worked out.
[/b][/quote]
If there's one thing that the last 50 years have taught us, it's that nuclear power is not a suitable long-term solution for anything but the biggest energy needs (powering a few cities, use in spacecraft, etc). It's too corruptable in a politically fractured world, and the waste disposal issue is simply too daunting for a planet already stretching to the limits environmentally.
I agree hydrogen power requires us to work out the complexities of economically creating the hydrogen itself, but I'm reasonably certain that hurdle will be overcome sometime this century. Meanwhile, I agree, we'll see a combined solution.
The biggest problem the Earth faces - from which ALL these other issues stem - is overpopulation. Our planet cannot sustain any more people, and you will see both increasing environmental problems and wars over dwindling resources if this keeps up. I expect there will be a world symposium sometime this century to address, and find ways for governments to institute, mandatory population controls. Not a palatable thought, but desperate times will call for desperate measures.
2/21/06, 01:42 AM
#27
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ya i agree. A little off topic, but pretty much all our problems wouldn't exist if the world's population were only like a billion or so. Okay, exaggeration, but you get my point.
Meanwhile... I'm really wondering whether this hydraulic F-150 is for real. Definitely the only time i've heard of that. but it would make sense to me. I've been wondering why ford has been slacking on some kind of technology to improve the efficiency of its big trucks. No plans for rear drive hybrids so far, and nothing about cylinder deactivation either. maybe this is what they've been working on, and hopefully it'll take ford a step ahead of the competition.
Meanwhile... I'm really wondering whether this hydraulic F-150 is for real. Definitely the only time i've heard of that. but it would make sense to me. I've been wondering why ford has been slacking on some kind of technology to improve the efficiency of its big trucks. No plans for rear drive hybrids so far, and nothing about cylinder deactivation either. maybe this is what they've been working on, and hopefully it'll take ford a step ahead of the competition.
3/3/06, 10:41 AM
#28
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Ford Invents Hybrid that is 300% more efficient than Toyota Prius
Ford is developing a new form of automotive propulsion, and the implications for the American Auto Industry are huge. The Hydraulic Hybrid could be the greatest innovation since the internal combustion engine itself, and Ford is on the inside track with its F-150 Hybrid. New Tech Spy Has learned details about the system that are simply amazing and could put Ford in a commanding position in the fiercely competitive full size pickup market.
---The Idea behind the current crop of Hybrid cars is well known; the cars main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds. Hydraulic Hybrids work in the same manner, only instead of batteries, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders.That in itself is not revolutionary, except for the fact that Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used today are not an efficient way to store energy, and hydraulic storage blows them away with 3X the efficiency. Even next generation Lithium Ion batteries do not come close to Hydraulic Energy Storage.
---The standard F-150 has a curb weight of about 4800 lbs., which is 65% greater than theToyota Prius, yet incredibly the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, that’s an amazing 400% increase over its gasoline version.
---The F-150 makes for a perfect host for Hydraulic Hybrid technology because of its height and body on frame construction, adding this system to smaller vehicles will be challenging, but with those kind of numbers small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete...The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.
http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06...lichybrid.html
Ford is developing a new form of automotive propulsion, and the implications for the American Auto Industry are huge. The Hydraulic Hybrid could be the greatest innovation since the internal combustion engine itself, and Ford is on the inside track with its F-150 Hybrid. New Tech Spy Has learned details about the system that are simply amazing and could put Ford in a commanding position in the fiercely competitive full size pickup market.
---The Idea behind the current crop of Hybrid cars is well known; the cars main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds. Hydraulic Hybrids work in the same manner, only instead of batteries, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders.That in itself is not revolutionary, except for the fact that Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used today are not an efficient way to store energy, and hydraulic storage blows them away with 3X the efficiency. Even next generation Lithium Ion batteries do not come close to Hydraulic Energy Storage.
---The standard F-150 has a curb weight of about 4800 lbs., which is 65% greater than theToyota Prius, yet incredibly the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, that’s an amazing 400% increase over its gasoline version.
---The F-150 makes for a perfect host for Hydraulic Hybrid technology because of its height and body on frame construction, adding this system to smaller vehicles will be challenging, but with those kind of numbers small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete...The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.
http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06...lichybrid.html
3/3/06, 11:03 AM
#29
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I wonder what kind of power and torque the engine can produce. Even the lightest-duty triton f-150s can tow over 6000 lbs. i hope the hybrid is up to the task. if it is, then that's incredible [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
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