Why can't ford give us this kinda motor?
4/30/07, 08:49 AM
#61
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For most cars, the owner makes it reliable. There is nothing special about Japanese cars, and a lot of time the use of materials in the important structural areas you don't see are inferior. There are certain brands that are consistantly crappier then average(Mitsu/DCX). I have never been impressed with any GM product down the road either. A 4 year old Malibu, cavalier, Trailblazer, Saturn, CTS, ect is just looking tired...
I finally got a look at the Tundra frame. Front suspension is actually quite beefy, about 75% of an F150, with bigger spring perches then the GM. Most of the attatchment hardware and bracket welds are pretty basic though. Frame is of noticeably thinner gauge steel(you can see it right away with the old eyeball), C-frame with a lot of rivets again which plauged the old frame(it was pathetic). No through welded crossmembers and very narrow leaf springs(about the same as a Ranger's). All hardware looks small-scale next to an F-150. On brackets, lots of smaller spot/short welds. I would say the front suspension is a little tougher then this gen Silverado, the frame is much less substantial then the last generation one. The Titan was a better attempt at copying the F-150. I would say in the frame the F-series has nearly twice the metal and 10 times the welding. If Ford ever gets the Hurricane done there's no reason why it couldnt tow 16000lbs. I would venture to say 10k is way overrated for the Tundra.
The new Silverado is a MUCH better built truck then the old model, just not quite a revolution. RAM has an excellent frame(toughest in the business), its weak point has been the front suspension is problamatic and outdated-the newest model has gotten much better. Don't get me wrong, I always hated the last generation F-150/Expy and thought they were turds trough 2003, and don't get me started on Ford minivans....
Toyota is master of buiding and promoting the paper tiger, and the American auto media is all in love with them. Toyota took cues from keeping the metal down so the truck is fast(ala all the kudos the Titan originally receieved) with better attention to details. But its really nothing special. The interior is very basic too, wasn't that impressed, and saw a lot of parts-bin hardware. In typicall toyota fasion, if I pulled a bolt from a major underbody component and handed it to you, you would never guess where it came from-"alternator bolt?"-no, lower control arms....They will pick and choose certain components to help in stats charts and magazines reviews, but skimp everywhere they can otherwise. The ring gear will be a certain size, the brakes will be a certain diameter, and the engine will have a certain HP. Nobody pays attention to the leaf springs, the mounting bolts, or the gauges of steel used.
I finally got a look at the Tundra frame. Front suspension is actually quite beefy, about 75% of an F150, with bigger spring perches then the GM. Most of the attatchment hardware and bracket welds are pretty basic though. Frame is of noticeably thinner gauge steel(you can see it right away with the old eyeball), C-frame with a lot of rivets again which plauged the old frame(it was pathetic). No through welded crossmembers and very narrow leaf springs(about the same as a Ranger's). All hardware looks small-scale next to an F-150. On brackets, lots of smaller spot/short welds. I would say the front suspension is a little tougher then this gen Silverado, the frame is much less substantial then the last generation one. The Titan was a better attempt at copying the F-150. I would say in the frame the F-series has nearly twice the metal and 10 times the welding. If Ford ever gets the Hurricane done there's no reason why it couldnt tow 16000lbs. I would venture to say 10k is way overrated for the Tundra.
The new Silverado is a MUCH better built truck then the old model, just not quite a revolution. RAM has an excellent frame(toughest in the business), its weak point has been the front suspension is problamatic and outdated-the newest model has gotten much better. Don't get me wrong, I always hated the last generation F-150/Expy and thought they were turds trough 2003, and don't get me started on Ford minivans....
Toyota is master of buiding and promoting the paper tiger, and the American auto media is all in love with them. Toyota took cues from keeping the metal down so the truck is fast(ala all the kudos the Titan originally receieved) with better attention to details. But its really nothing special. The interior is very basic too, wasn't that impressed, and saw a lot of parts-bin hardware. In typicall toyota fasion, if I pulled a bolt from a major underbody component and handed it to you, you would never guess where it came from-"alternator bolt?"-no, lower control arms....They will pick and choose certain components to help in stats charts and magazines reviews, but skimp everywhere they can otherwise. The ring gear will be a certain size, the brakes will be a certain diameter, and the engine will have a certain HP. Nobody pays attention to the leaf springs, the mounting bolts, or the gauges of steel used.
4/30/07, 09:10 AM
#62
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there's nothing beasty with toyotas. new tundra has great engine, tranny, diff and brakes, but frame is C-frame, which is not even near "rock solid".
and it looks cheap fake copy of good old F-150. just my 2 cents.
and it looks cheap fake copy of good old F-150. just my 2 cents.
4/30/07, 05:13 PM
#63
62 posts and I never did figure out why this thread is in a 2005 Mustang GT Performance and Tech section... 
4/30/07, 05:22 PM
#64
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I with ya on this one. It doesn't belong here at all. But if you want a mountain motor go build one for yourself. These cars are daily drivers to most people. If you want big horsepower out of the box spend the money for a Vette Z06, Viper or a Porche. Or at least buck up and buy a GT500. It will never happen in a GT in our lifetimes.
Scott
4/30/07, 06:52 PM
#65
I bought a car now instead of waiting for some special edition based on the mod motor so I can start to play now. I felt the new car had matured enough by 07 for me, and the new interior trim options sealed the deal-enough waiting.... My next 'se' is going to be a Mustang with the next-generation of V-8s(and I'll just keep this one too). I have seen rumored quite a few times that the standard F-150 V8 engine will be over 400hp. The 6 speed has done wonders for the newest Expy, that tranny and more power will be incredible. The expy last time around in 03 also tested the upcoming 04 F150 components.
The current Mustang 3V V8 is by all means state of the art and a sweetheart of an engine, it just suffers from small displacement. Ford going to a bigger block with all of its experience with the modulars is going to make a beast of an engine. Ford in general has some of the newest and most advanced newer platforms in the business, they've just been suffering from draggin *** in the engine department for years, going all the way back to the Nasser era.. The 500 was originally intended to be released in 03 with the D35, and would of trumped the entire sedan market.
The current Mustang 3V V8 is by all means state of the art and a sweetheart of an engine, it just suffers from small displacement. Ford going to a bigger block with all of its experience with the modulars is going to make a beast of an engine. Ford in general has some of the newest and most advanced newer platforms in the business, they've just been suffering from draggin *** in the engine department for years, going all the way back to the Nasser era.. The 500 was originally intended to be released in 03 with the D35, and would of trumped the entire sedan market.
4/30/07, 08:49 PM
#66
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Let me start by saying that I love my 05. It's the 7th mustang I've owned, I am a fan, But.... Last night I bought my wife a Tundra with the 5.7 liter engine. N/A 380 hp 401# torque. The Truck was 31K sticker and they were happy to deal some.
Why can't/doesn't ford step up and give us this kind of numbers. The truck is freakishly well made, quiet as hell, solid as a rock. All in all a superior product for a great price.
COME ON FORD, great products at fair prices would likely help create some profits!!!
Why can't/doesn't ford step up and give us this kind of numbers. The truck is freakishly well made, quiet as hell, solid as a rock. All in all a superior product for a great price.
COME ON FORD, great products at fair prices would likely help create some profits!!!
5/1/07, 08:13 AM
#67
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[quote=Cheese302;902780]
[quote=Cheese302;905217]
in what way did my post sound like i was saying that because its an american v8 isnt reliable? seriously, where? i would really like to know. since my family also had a 1988 lincoln mark vii lsc that had 245000 on it running extremely well when we sold it. only major thing that we needed to do was head gaskets. and they arent very hard to do on that car. i am not hating on anything, hell i have an 07 mustang gt.
Sounds like you have had good luck with Fords, too, further driving home my point.
in what way did my post sound like i was saying that because its an american v8 isnt reliable? seriously, where? i would really like to know. since my family also had a 1988 lincoln mark vii lsc that had 245000 on it running extremely well when we sold it. only major thing that we needed to do was head gaskets. and they arent very hard to do on that car. i am not hating on anything, hell i have an 07 mustang gt.
5/1/07, 05:56 PM
#68
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For years I would not have touched a Ford. Was a GM fan but GM really put me off when the discontinued the Camaro and Firebird and started focusing on boring SUVs.
I have two Fords now. My '05 Mustang GT and an '07 Ranger that I've had since June of last year. Both are great vehicles. Zero problems with either of them. Fit and finish is great on both. Both were very reasonably priced and a good value for the money.
I have two Fords now. My '05 Mustang GT and an '07 Ranger that I've had since June of last year. Both are great vehicles. Zero problems with either of them. Fit and finish is great on both. Both were very reasonably priced and a good value for the money.
5/29/07, 07:42 AM
#70
I wonder how long Toyota will be so helpful if the problem persists, the known sludging issues with older toyota 6's results in Toyota fighting it in court rather then recalling 6 million vehicles. I've known people who have replaced a motor in a toyota because of it and blamed themselves and still consider the car reliable
I've seen the Tundra up close, small frame, thin metal, narrow leaf springs, tack welds and rivets underneath. Front suspension perches are between silverado and F-150, but the hardware is all undersized(typical toyota, minimize bolt sizes everywhere). Nothing special about it, other then the engine it is still about 10 years behind the current F-150 chassis. They only do what the specs on paper look good(i.e. large rotor diameter, but not very thick). Interior is cheap-people will kid themselves because they are somehow drawn to toyota's silver painted plastic like a crow to a bottlecap-but the materials are cheap.
I've seen the Tundra up close, small frame, thin metal, narrow leaf springs, tack welds and rivets underneath. Front suspension perches are between silverado and F-150, but the hardware is all undersized(typical toyota, minimize bolt sizes everywhere). Nothing special about it, other then the engine it is still about 10 years behind the current F-150 chassis. They only do what the specs on paper look good(i.e. large rotor diameter, but not very thick). Interior is cheap-people will kid themselves because they are somehow drawn to toyota's silver painted plastic like a crow to a bottlecap-but the materials are cheap.
5/29/07, 08:11 AM
#72
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I've seen the Tundra up close, small frame, thin metal, narrow leaf springs, tack welds and rivets underneath. Front suspension perches are between silverado and F-150, but the hardware is all undersized(typical toyota, minimize bolt sizes everywhere). Nothing special about it, other then the engine it is still about 10 years behind the current F-150 chassis.
Clearly, the F150 has a strong frame, but I wonder if it isn't overbuilt for how many buyers would use them. It would seem heavy-duty towing and hauling would be left to the larger F series trucks.
I look forward to your perspective. Sorry for the off-topic! I'd love if Ford gave us the PJ Saleen 5.0L 3-valve engine!!
PS - It is obviously hypercompetitive now in the pickup market, so Toyota is angling for every perceived advantage it will get over the F series.
PPS - I really like the attitude of the 2008 Super Duty. That thing is monster.
PPPS - Take a look at this webpage from a Canadian Chevy dealer. Some interesting comments there.
5/29/07, 08:18 AM
#73
Legacy TMS Member
Could be however, Toyota isn't advertising it that way. Their commercials make it sound like they (Toyota) reinvented the truck and all competitors are just toys by comparison.
5/29/07, 10:46 AM
#74
Needs to be more Astony
PPPS - Take a look at this webpage from a Canadian Chevy dealer. Some interesting comments there.
5/29/07, 11:03 AM
#75
Yes they went with the Nissan approach to get acceleration numbers, and upped the size on specific items that are good for bragging rights(although they make no claim versus other vehicles because they do not win anything but horsepower). If Ford built vehicles with the Toyota mindset they would be skewered alive by the media(even more so then now). Other then engine hp and the size of the pinon gear, the Titan is a superior truck then the Toyota from a technical standpoint. Like the 500, the F150 was designed for an engine that was never finished. Based on the hardware if they had a V6 diesel in the truck or the hurricane V8 it could tow over 15000 lbs. The frame itself is stronger then Super Duty's. F150 could loose half its welds and still be strongest frame in class.
5/29/07, 08:16 PM
#76
Legacy TMS Member
Some would say that about Ford's site. Unless there is a third party evaluation, people will be arguing about what is "best".
I do find it interesting to see what others say about a competitor from a marketing point of view. It makes for interesting comparison discussions.
I do find it interesting to see what others say about a competitor from a marketing point of view. It makes for interesting comparison discussions.
6/1/07, 06:18 AM
#77
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Let me start by saying that I love my 05. It's the 7th mustang I've owned, I am a fan, But.... Last night I bought my wife a Tundra with the 5.7 liter engine. N/A 380 hp 401# torque. The Truck was 31K sticker and they were happy to deal some.
Why can't/doesn't ford step up and give us this kind of numbers. The truck is freakishly well made, quiet as hell, solid as a rock. All in all a superior product for a great price.
COME ON FORD, great products at fair prices would likely help create some profits!!!
Why can't/doesn't ford step up and give us this kind of numbers. The truck is freakishly well made, quiet as hell, solid as a rock. All in all a superior product for a great price.
COME ON FORD, great products at fair prices would likely help create some profits!!!
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/29/a...-have-snapped/
You really want Ford to give you this kind of motor? The debate is on at Toyota whether to re-call every one sold.
6/1/07, 08:59 AM
#78
Legacy TMS Member
Try this link.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/29/a...-have-snapped/
You really want Ford to give you this kind of motor? The debate is on at Toyota whether to re-call every one sold.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/29/a...-have-snapped/
You really want Ford to give you this kind of motor? The debate is on at Toyota whether to re-call every one sold.
6/3/07, 05:53 PM
#79
Legacy TMS Member
I can't believe that a poster would get on here and brag that he bought "a far superior vechile" that has had this many problems as it has. Sure it might be nice but it is new. Jsut wait more will go wrong with it just as Toyota is experiencing right now with many of thier vechiles.
There is a huge media bias against american brand companies and for the most part in most of the country the people believe it. I hope soon people realize we need the car companies as bad as we need them to make good cars.....we can't do what we do with out them
There is a huge media bias against american brand companies and for the most part in most of the country the people believe it. I hope soon people realize we need the car companies as bad as we need them to make good cars.....we can't do what we do with out them
Of course I could be wrong...
6/5/07, 10:37 AM
#80
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I'm an old fart almost 63 and I buy as much made in the USA as I can. You want to know why you pay more for made in the USA? Look at your pay check and think about the fact that most people here make a much more than those in off shore sweat shops. With age a person atains wisdom and lets just say you get what you pay for.