Let me start by saying that I love my 05. It's the 7th mustang I've owned, I am a fan, But.... Last night I bought my wife a Tundra with the 5.7 liter engine. N/A 380 hp 401# torque. The Truck was 31K sticker and they were happy to deal some.

Why can't/doesn't ford step up and give us this kind of numbers. The truck is freakishly well made, quiet as hell, solid as a rock. All in all a superior product for a great price.

COME ON FORD, great products at fair prices would likely help create some profits!!!

 

did I mention that this beast has a 10.5" rear end. It's a huge beast.

 

It also only gets a 4 star crash rating. In particular, it's frame isn't nearly as stout as the 4 year old F150. It sounds like Toyota put all the money in the engine and forgot about the frame.

 

I can attest to that, i manufacture products that aid in the shipping of bare frames. I've done them all, Ford, GM, chrysler, Nissan, and now the new Tundra. Poorly made, and weak, Toyota has been the only one to require a larger tolerance in our products because the normal 1/16" tolerance is to tough for Toyota to hold. They said there could be over a 1/4" difference from frame to frame. They are being made in Metalsa, Mexico.

 

I just went to the ford website and priced a 2008 F250 SuperCab XLT with the 5.4L engine and a tow package and the price was 33,600!
A much stronger and a better quality vehicle IMO.
I would spend the extra 2k myself.

 

It seems like ford faithful, perhaps myself included sometimes, have their heads in the sand. The reason Ford is losing money faster than Alec Baldwin loses his temper isn't because they are making a higher quality product than Toyota. Neither is it the reason that Toyota/Lexus always rate at or near the top of customer satisfaction statistics and is on it's way to becoming the number 1 automaker in the world.

My post is not an attempt to compare the tundra to other ford pickups. I drove the f150 and I was really disappointed with their highly praised frame which quivers over even the smallest bump. Perhaps that explains ford resale numbers. It does however have a really nice interior.

The thing that helped me consider the toyota is when a real estate investor buddy of mine told me how much he loves his and how it's quieter and more comfortable than his bmw m6. I think he was stretching the truth, but twice today I ran over rail road tracks and my wife didn't notice either time until I pointed it out.

It's an outstanding truck and I wish that for similar money FORD would provide a mustang with an equivilant performance, fit and finish, reliability resale.... I also wish FORD stock was going up like a mad man. I bet if I got my first wish, I'd get my second.

 

f150 has been made forever they have technology in that thing. It only gets better and better. So I have no idea what you are talking about. #1 selling for what 31 yrs now?

 

You are absolutely right. Ford makes the best quality automotive products in the world. They are the best selling and most profitable car company. Their fit, finish, resale, reliability and resale value are far superior to any others. I am wrong to ask for more from them.


As a note this post wasn't initially about who makes a better truck. It was about some qualities I would like to see in my mustang, that I definately see in this truck. By the way, in how many of those 31 years did ford compete with a full sized toyota truck???

I remember a story I heard Carol Shelby tell during an interview. He was offered a really plush position with Toyota. Don't remember a time, I think it was late 60's. I think it was basically he had the opportunity to own, control... all Toyota sales in the Western US. He asked a buddy of his at the big three and was told. Toyota wasn't going to do anything in America. The quote I remember him using was, "We're going to push the Japs back in the sea" His words not mine. Clearly my memory is sketchy, but you get the gist.

Shelby chuckled and remarked that this showed he wasn't nearly the automotive genius people accuse him of.

When I was a kid (I'm 46 now) I never saw a toyota or honda. The only honda's I saw until I was 11 were motorcycles. I remember the first cvcc's I saw, what an ugly piece of crap, what kind of idiot would buy that weak excuse for a car. But, slowly toyota (and honda) took over the economy car market, making really good cars, that ran like crazy, then the midsized family car, then the luxury segment Now Toyota is aiming at trucks and people this is a good one.

Asking that ford take a lesson or two from a company that is clearly hitting homerun after home run, isn't a bad idea. I want my 6 year old son to drive a new mustang someday. I just want it to be a great car.

 

To answer your initial question. Ford CAN give us a comparable engine but keep the price the same? Not gonna happen. Certainly the Mustang is not perfect but for what we pay it's still the best bang for your buck and I would challenge anyone to find a better balance of power, handling and over all quality for the same money.
It just amazes me how people complian about the interior, the length of the antenna and other nit picky things when you're getting near perfect weight distribution, a strong aluminum block, overhead cam V8, the stiffest chassis ever offered in a Mustang, ect. I'd much rather try and improve the interior than deal with the short commings of front wheel drive, the inefficiencies of a pushrod motor, ect.
Bottom line, Ford gave is a great platform. Sure it has some deficiencies but with the money you saved you can do you own mods and make it the car you want.
In regards to the import vehicles. There was a time from the mid 70's unitil the early 90's where I would not have touched anything north american. During those times the only good cars that were reasonably priced all came from Japan however in the past 10 years the american manufacturers have made huge improvements. I still think they have a little ways to go but no longer is there a significant difference in overall quality between American vehicles and Japanese vehicles.
I think these days the quality difference is perceived more so than actual. People haven't forgotten the awful crap that that was being made here in the 70s and 80s and many are not willing to accept or take chance on American product again. Since a vehicle is a significant invesment for most of us I can't say that I blame them.
The media doesn't do this preception any good either. I've noticed that if Toyota has a recall nobody hears about it but if it's an American manufacturer the media splashes it all over the place.
I dunno, I'm just an average schmuck but I'm just trying to look at a broader picture. With all due respect just I don't think american cars are as bad as some people make them out to be.

 

yeah they could give us more power but then everybody would whine about the gas mileage.

 

EXACTLY!!!!

 

The quality issue is where Toyota has an edge. It shows up in the J.D.Power ratings and repair data. We'd all prefer a Ford it it was as good as a Toyota, all things being equal. But they aren't.

When Ford starts consitently making superior products, the sales picture will go their way. It's that simple . Stop counting beans when your kitchen is on fire.

 

haha sorry that was really funny... I'm a valet and drive the full sized toyotas all the time (esp being in Austin). I think that one big hurdle a lot of people have to get over is actually supporting a foriegn company. I hate 4 banger imports just as much as the next mustang guy but the toyota is a VERY nice truck with power that really suprises me.

 

I suspect Ford won't give us this type of engine until they are more flush with cash. For now, Toyota is more profitable and can do that.

The new Tundra is nicely styled, the fit and finish on the cab seems to be on par with their typical efforts. The frame seems to be a "weak point", however that is on a relative basis as compared to the F150. It seems to be a clever engineering solution to reduce weight.

I believe concentrating on stylish cars (especially in the small range), crossovers, and hybrid technology will help Ford's fortunes. I wish we had big motors in a Mustang GT, but I don't think we will see that in the near-term.

The new Mustang definitely has a much better chassis than the last generation.

Have you looked at the recent Ford products - Edge, Fusion?

 

Toyota is trying REEEEEEEALLY hard to take out the cash king pickup market here in America. They have tons and tons of cash on hand and they've done a beautiful job of delivering a gem of a 5.7 liter bolted up to a 6 speed. Their engine has (I'm sure) had many many hours of development with their target of course being the Ford 5.4, the Chevy Vortecs and the Dodge Hemi. Nissans truck has a pretty powerful 5.4 as I recall, but clearly the new Toyota is the new bogey. We know Ford is hard at work with new engines. I cannot believe they'll unvail a brand new F-150 without improved, enlarged engines. I'm sure their target is the Toyota just as Toyotas target was American engines. To my knowledge, the Toyota trucks aren't moving anywhere near the way they expected them to. Incentives are out there now. It will be some time for us to understand how well they hit the mark. I believe customers will be of the retail segment, not the professional, work segment. That is a hardcore group who swears by Fords, Chevys and Dodges. It may happen at some point, but not immediately in my opinion.

 

"With its 6.4L displacement and two-stage turbochargers, this new Power Stroke® diesel is standard on the F-450 and cranks out a maximum 350 horsepower and 650 lb-ft of torque. Featuring Ford Clean Diesel Technology™ and with particulate emissions equivalent to those of a gasoline engine, the 6.4L diesel is Ford’s cleanest, quietest truck diesel ever."

This is availible on all the superduties. Not quite the hp of the toyota, but hp on a truck is almost worthless and torque is everything.

 

Torque like that from a 6.4 is very impressive and exactly what's needed in a truck.

 

That'd be great in a stang wouldn't it. 350hp and 650ft.-lbs. That would be wicked sweet as a starting point.

 

Ford equal to Toyota in Quality??

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...704180425/1148

 

Good to know that Ford knows of these problems. Most problrms I ever had were minor, such as a blown speaker or a belt needing replacing. Typical small problems, I know they have their bigger problems too, but for me usually small.