View Poll Results: Hybrid Focus/Fusion?
YES, Ford should make both hybrid options
11
64.71%
YES, Ford should make a Focus Hybrid
1
5.88%
YES, Ford should make a Fusion Hybrid
0
0%
NO, Ford should not make small car hybrids
5
29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll
Who wants to see a Hybrid Focus/Fusion?
10/18/06, 05:39 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Who wants to see a Hybrid Focus/Fusion?
How many think Ford developing a Hybrid Focus or Fusion would be a good idea to compete in the smaller car market? Something that would get in the upper 30's - mid 40's mpg. Please discuss as well...
10/18/06, 07:46 PM
#3
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I would buy a Focus hybrid, assuming the price was not crazy high compared to a standard Focus. It would make a great commuter car, I'm getting tired of putting nearly 30K miles on the 'Stang per year, I'd rather keep it for weekends only!
10/18/06, 07:55 PM
#4
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True, hybrids don't sell in huge numbers but, the ones currently being made are being sold as fast as they can be produced. IMO, Ford should get into the game and develop hybrid versions of both vehicles to raise its fuel economy average and help reduce vehicle emissions. The image boost wouldn't hurt either. Maybe if a more compact version of a "hydraulic hybrid" drivetrain could be adapted to smaller vehicles, it could address the initial and long-term cost issues that current gas/electric hybrids have. It sure would be a sight better than GM's E85 vehicle ads which seem more of a image/marketing ploy than anything else.
10/18/06, 09:29 PM
#6
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Hydraulic hybrids are really cool, i love the idea, but they don't have the benefit of silent running at low speed and idle, and if anything, I've heard the hydraulic launch is pretty loud. Maybe a good idea for a Dump truck, where its life is stop and go, but not for small cars.
Here's my list of priorities for hybridization of ford cars:
1- crown vic (so many idling cops and taxis would save a lot!)
2- Big pick-ups (bigger the car, the less of a problem the added weight is, and they could use the low end torque, AND contractors could use a portable generator truck for all their tools)
3- Explorer and Expedition
4- Mustang! talk about style, you'd look so good in a hybrid mustang, all the bad-*** good looks while showing you actually still care about things like breathing. A hybrid mustang might not appeal to the hard core performance enthusiasts (although... look at that Tesla roadster!), but those are a small fraction of the potential mustang market.
5- Edge, Freestyle, 500 - these guys are already fairly efficient
6- Focus - the smallest cars need it the least in terms of mpg, and in fact, the added electric components make it less of an easy thing to pull off, but I guess the Civic is pretty sweet. I just think those at the top of the list would benefit the most.
The fusion isn't on my list cause it is already confirmed, but it would probably slot in just above the Focus in my list, even though its probably the hybrid ford i'd be most likely to purchase.
Even though those small cars are at the bottom of my list, my beliefs are that all vehicles can benefit from hybrid technology, so i voted for option number 1.
Here's my list of priorities for hybridization of ford cars:
1- crown vic (so many idling cops and taxis would save a lot!)
2- Big pick-ups (bigger the car, the less of a problem the added weight is, and they could use the low end torque, AND contractors could use a portable generator truck for all their tools)
3- Explorer and Expedition
4- Mustang! talk about style, you'd look so good in a hybrid mustang, all the bad-*** good looks while showing you actually still care about things like breathing. A hybrid mustang might not appeal to the hard core performance enthusiasts (although... look at that Tesla roadster!), but those are a small fraction of the potential mustang market.
5- Edge, Freestyle, 500 - these guys are already fairly efficient
6- Focus - the smallest cars need it the least in terms of mpg, and in fact, the added electric components make it less of an easy thing to pull off, but I guess the Civic is pretty sweet. I just think those at the top of the list would benefit the most.
The fusion isn't on my list cause it is already confirmed, but it would probably slot in just above the Focus in my list, even though its probably the hybrid ford i'd be most likely to purchase.
Even though those small cars are at the bottom of my list, my beliefs are that all vehicles can benefit from hybrid technology, so i voted for option number 1.
10/19/06, 04:04 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
1- crown vic (so many idling cops and taxis would save a lot!)
2- Big pick-ups (bigger the car, the less of a problem the added weight is, and they could use the low end torque, AND contractors could use a portable generator truck for all their tools)
3- Explorer and Expedition
4- Mustang! talk about style, you'd look so good in a hybrid mustang, all the bad-*** good looks while showing you actually still care about things like breathing. A hybrid mustang might not appeal to the hard core performance enthusiasts (although... look at that Tesla roadster!), but those are a small fraction of the potential mustang market.
5- Edge, Freestyle, 500 - these guys are already fairly efficient
6- Focus - the smallest cars need it the least in terms of mpg, and in fact, the added electric components make it less of an easy thing to pull off, but I guess the Civic is pretty sweet. I just think those at the top of the list would benefit the most.
Even though those small cars are at the bottom of my list, my beliefs are that all vehicles can benefit from hybrid technology, so i voted for option number 1.
2- Big pick-ups (bigger the car, the less of a problem the added weight is, and they could use the low end torque, AND contractors could use a portable generator truck for all their tools)
3- Explorer and Expedition
4- Mustang! talk about style, you'd look so good in a hybrid mustang, all the bad-*** good looks while showing you actually still care about things like breathing. A hybrid mustang might not appeal to the hard core performance enthusiasts (although... look at that Tesla roadster!), but those are a small fraction of the potential mustang market.
5- Edge, Freestyle, 500 - these guys are already fairly efficient
6- Focus - the smallest cars need it the least in terms of mpg, and in fact, the added electric components make it less of an easy thing to pull off, but I guess the Civic is pretty sweet. I just think those at the top of the list would benefit the most.
Even though those small cars are at the bottom of my list, my beliefs are that all vehicles can benefit from hybrid technology, so i voted for option number 1.
#1, Agreed...a 3V 4.6L Hybrid CVPI would be AWESOME!! Better fuel economy, better emmisions, and more power simply due to changing to the 3V 4.6. Throw in the Hybrid technology and wow, major fuel savings and even more low end power to keep up to the bad guys!!
#2, yes but GM already makes a hybrid pickup and it gets almost exactly the same mileage as a standard truck. It only gets 2mpg better in the city, and 1mpg better on the highway. That won't come close to making up for the extra $$ for the hybrid system.
Maybe it's just a poor design, but big boxy pickups (read: giant air dams) probably don't benefit from hybrid technology as much as a small, lightweight, aerodynamic compact.
10/19/06, 08:35 AM
#8
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10/19/06, 08:55 AM
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i think we need to develop better diesels like they have over in europe. they pay $5 a gal for gas over there... what'd they do? they made their cars lighter and used efficient diesels. i'd like to see a turbo diesel focus or turbo diesel fusion or somethin like that. i'll only talk about hybrids if they want to make a hybrid diesel.
hybrids seem to be just a glorified key phrase nowadays. they don't make financial sense b/c you'd have to keep a car forever to make back the extra money you spent on it instead of getting the regular version of the car. i'd take a cheaper turbo diesel focus over a hybrid focus anyday.. now they just gotta work on getting better emissions out of diesels.
hybrids seem to be just a glorified key phrase nowadays. they don't make financial sense b/c you'd have to keep a car forever to make back the extra money you spent on it instead of getting the regular version of the car. i'd take a cheaper turbo diesel focus over a hybrid focus anyday.. now they just gotta work on getting better emissions out of diesels.
10/19/06, 10:24 AM
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My Focus will do 40mpg on the highway now!! What is the point? Like Ford has any money to spend on another development program! They have not changed the Focus in a material fashion since it's intro in the US in the Fall of 1999. Ford is not even including the Focus in many of it's advertisements.
10/19/06, 06:16 PM
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hybrids seem to be just a glorified key phrase nowadays. they don't make financial sense b/c you'd have to keep a car forever to make back the extra money you spent on it instead of getting the regular version of the car. i'd take a cheaper turbo diesel focus over a hybrid focus anyday.. now they just gotta work on getting better emissions out of diesels.
10/19/06, 08:47 PM
#14
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#2, yes but GM already makes a hybrid pickup and it gets almost exactly the same mileage as a standard truck. It only gets 2mpg better in the city, and 1mpg better on the highway. That won't come close to making up for the extra $$ for the hybrid system.
Maybe it's just a poor design, but big boxy pickups (read: giant air dams) probably don't benefit from hybrid technology as much as a small, lightweight, aerodynamic compact.
Maybe it's just a poor design, but big boxy pickups (read: giant air dams) probably don't benefit from hybrid technology as much as a small, lightweight, aerodynamic compact.
The GM trucks are labeled as mild hybrids. Basically just an idle shut off and slight electric assist, if at all... plus benefits of AC outlets in the back of the bed.
I agree about the diesel, but I still say hybrid tech benefits the heavier vehicles most, as well as vehicles that are most likely to spend a lot of time idling. Aerodynamics... I dunno, good or bad aerodynamics don't really make a case for or against hybrid tech, its kinda a seperate issue.
A focus will definitely notice the extra weight of motors and battery packs. An F-150... not so much.
How bout this: That new turbodiesel V8 from LR plus a hybrid set up. Maybe a little overkill in terms of torque... but is there really such a thing?
10/23/06, 07:44 AM
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LOL. well ok then - taken from the Honda website. Regular Civic Sedan starts at $15,010. Civic Hybrid Sedan starts at $22,600. Regular Civic Sedan gets 30/40 mpg (city/highway). Civic Hybird gets 49/51 mpg city/highway.
Now what can I do with that extra $7590 bucks? If your into environmental than perhaps you can take that extra money and donate it into Hydrogen vehicle research for absolutely-zero emissions. Or in my case buy some food, housing, and living costs b/c to me money isn't everything, but considering I don't have a lot of it, it sure means a hell of a lot b/c I have to spend it wisely.
Ok, now follow my calculations. Both cars drive 15,000 miles per year. Gas we'll say is 2.00 gal in NJ for regular (as of now). Regular sedan would need 428 gallons of gas (i used half city, half highway driving so at 35mpg) and would cost you $856 per year in gasoline. The Hybrid sedan would need 300 gallons of gasoline in a year and would cost you $600/yr in gas. So that hybrid saved you $256/yr in fuel costs and a tax credit of $1700/yr. Depending on how much you make, is how much that would actually save you. I'm not going to get into Taxes and figuring out how much $1700 credit off of someones income would save the average person, but in the end it would take too long to make up that $7590. Oh and by the way, that tax credit is only going to stay at that price for FY06. In FY07, it'll only be 850. and in FY08, it only be 25% of 1700, so 425.
Money isn't everything... ha, this is a Mustang website, I'm saving for headers so feel free to PM me, I'll give you my name and address and you can send me a check so I can get them!
10/23/06, 07:56 AM
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and to go even further, here's my evidence about Turbodiesels. Lets take a 1998 VW Jetta TDI vs a 1998 VW Jetta GL. Original MSRP: TDI-$15770 vs. GL-$14595. Difference in cost = $1175. Difference in mpg: TDI - 40-49 vs. GL - 24/31. Now all you'd need is for the feds to put that tax credit in the right place.. but even still, i think you'd get ur money back with a turbo diesel quicker than that hybrid. so if anyones listening, get to work on reducing emissions on those euro diesels!!!
10/23/06, 09:31 AM
#17
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First off, he said sometimes money isn't everything. He didn't say all the time! hehe... so ya.. Maybe you wouldn't, but I know i would give up cash in the long run if i knew i was doing the right thing for the planet.
Then you're saying that hybrids aren't the best choice for the environment, and say we should support other technologies like cleaner diesel and hydrogen. The thing is that nothing actually puts these technologies against eachother. There are already a couple examples in concept form of hybrid diesel-electric drivetrains, and even many working examples in the form of city buses in New York and Seattle and a couple other cities if i'm not mistaken. Any hydrogen powered vehicles will also rely a lot on all the technologies developed in hybrid cars, electric motors, batteries, regen braking.
So don't say we should be doing this instead of that. Really we should be working on all these things at the same time, which is actually what's happening.
To tell someone to not buy a hybrid and instead donate their money to hydrogen research is not the greatest idea. That's someone who's putting their money into a technology that's making a difference right now, and you're telling them to rather put that money towards a technology that can't do any good for this planet for at least 20 or 30 years. You've gotta keep in mind that even if some company starts putting out a decent hydrogen fuel cell car in mass numbers right now, you're just displacing the pollution, displacing the consumption of foreign oil, as that hydrogen has to be made somehow.
I agree, someone who's on a budget but who wants to do some good for the planet, or even if their not on a budget but they're looking to save on fuel expenses... these are all people who should buy a small TDI VW or something, especially now with the low-sulphur diesel. But don't discourage anyone with the means and the desire to buy a hybrid car. There's no denying that electric motors and battery packs are the way of the future, whether those battery packs be recharged by a gasoline engine, diesel engine, hydrogen fuel cell, or straight from the grid.
Then you're saying that hybrids aren't the best choice for the environment, and say we should support other technologies like cleaner diesel and hydrogen. The thing is that nothing actually puts these technologies against eachother. There are already a couple examples in concept form of hybrid diesel-electric drivetrains, and even many working examples in the form of city buses in New York and Seattle and a couple other cities if i'm not mistaken. Any hydrogen powered vehicles will also rely a lot on all the technologies developed in hybrid cars, electric motors, batteries, regen braking.
So don't say we should be doing this instead of that. Really we should be working on all these things at the same time, which is actually what's happening.
To tell someone to not buy a hybrid and instead donate their money to hydrogen research is not the greatest idea. That's someone who's putting their money into a technology that's making a difference right now, and you're telling them to rather put that money towards a technology that can't do any good for this planet for at least 20 or 30 years. You've gotta keep in mind that even if some company starts putting out a decent hydrogen fuel cell car in mass numbers right now, you're just displacing the pollution, displacing the consumption of foreign oil, as that hydrogen has to be made somehow.
I agree, someone who's on a budget but who wants to do some good for the planet, or even if their not on a budget but they're looking to save on fuel expenses... these are all people who should buy a small TDI VW or something, especially now with the low-sulphur diesel. But don't discourage anyone with the means and the desire to buy a hybrid car. There's no denying that electric motors and battery packs are the way of the future, whether those battery packs be recharged by a gasoline engine, diesel engine, hydrogen fuel cell, or straight from the grid.
10/23/06, 11:40 AM
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First off, he said sometimes money isn't everything. He didn't say all the time! hehe... so ya.. Maybe you wouldn't, but I know i would give up cash in the long run if i knew i was doing the right thing for the planet.
Then you're saying that hybrids aren't the best choice for the environment, and say we should support other technologies like cleaner diesel and hydrogen. The thing is that nothing actually puts these technologies against eachother. There are already a couple examples in concept form of hybrid diesel-electric drivetrains, and even many working examples in the form of city buses in New York and Seattle and a couple other cities if i'm not mistaken. Any hydrogen powered vehicles will also rely a lot on all the technologies developed in hybrid cars, electric motors, batteries, regen braking.
So don't say we should be doing this instead of that. Really we should be working on all these things at the same time, which is actually what's happening.
To tell someone to not buy a hybrid and instead donate their money to hydrogen research is not the greatest idea. That's someone who's putting their money into a technology that's making a difference right now, and you're telling them to rather put that money towards a technology that can't do any good for this planet for at least 20 or 30 years. You've gotta keep in mind that even if some company starts putting out a decent hydrogen fuel cell car in mass numbers right now, you're just displacing the pollution, displacing the consumption of foreign oil, as that hydrogen has to be made somehow.
I agree, someone who's on a budget but who wants to do some good for the planet, or even if their not on a budget but they're looking to save on fuel expenses... these are all people who should buy a small TDI VW or something, especially now with the low-sulphur diesel. But don't discourage anyone with the means and the desire to buy a hybrid car. There's no denying that electric motors and battery packs are the way of the future, whether those battery packs be recharged by a gasoline engine, diesel engine, hydrogen fuel cell, or straight from the grid.
Then you're saying that hybrids aren't the best choice for the environment, and say we should support other technologies like cleaner diesel and hydrogen. The thing is that nothing actually puts these technologies against eachother. There are already a couple examples in concept form of hybrid diesel-electric drivetrains, and even many working examples in the form of city buses in New York and Seattle and a couple other cities if i'm not mistaken. Any hydrogen powered vehicles will also rely a lot on all the technologies developed in hybrid cars, electric motors, batteries, regen braking.
So don't say we should be doing this instead of that. Really we should be working on all these things at the same time, which is actually what's happening.
To tell someone to not buy a hybrid and instead donate their money to hydrogen research is not the greatest idea. That's someone who's putting their money into a technology that's making a difference right now, and you're telling them to rather put that money towards a technology that can't do any good for this planet for at least 20 or 30 years. You've gotta keep in mind that even if some company starts putting out a decent hydrogen fuel cell car in mass numbers right now, you're just displacing the pollution, displacing the consumption of foreign oil, as that hydrogen has to be made somehow.
I agree, someone who's on a budget but who wants to do some good for the planet, or even if their not on a budget but they're looking to save on fuel expenses... these are all people who should buy a small TDI VW or something, especially now with the low-sulphur diesel. But don't discourage anyone with the means and the desire to buy a hybrid car. There's no denying that electric motors and battery packs are the way of the future, whether those battery packs be recharged by a gasoline engine, diesel engine, hydrogen fuel cell, or straight from the grid.
but my point is, hybrids don't make financial sense. if you are comfortable enough in your budget to buy a hybrid and not worry about the financial side of things, by all means i don't discourage you to help the planet. but for the lower to middle working class, you need to have things cheaper to appeal more to these masses of people.. and when more people can afford to jump onto that kind of bandwagon is when we'd see a huge difference. just my .02
10/24/06, 03:06 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
Anyone know how much of the markup on a hybrid is actual cost to manufacture batteries/motors/R&D...etc? Or is it mostly markup for the sake of making more $$ on a hot product? Example: the 3:55 vs the 3:27 axle in the 07 Mustangs. Does it really cost Ford $100 to put in a set of 3:55's instead of 3:27's? No, but they charge $100 because they can and people will pay it because they want the 3:55.