Zastava_101

The German automaker's first half year sales rose 7.2% to 3.31m, while Ford posted a free-fall of 11% to 3.09m.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/30/v...-global-sales/

cheech6g

weak......I didn't know VW had that many sales. Good for them though if they're actually gaining sales during a time like this. Fords def still has a way to go before they start turning a profit.....but by the looks of it, they seem to be headed in the right direction. Hopefully by 2010, we'll see a change for Ford. Once they get their production plants restructured, and their European models over here and selling, I think they'll be doing MUCH better. Its just a matter of getting to that point......

Hollywood_North GT

Yep, there's a lesson in there somewhere, but I suspect we all know what it is.

And finally, it seems, so does Ford.

Louie

Yeah, it's not clear from the article whether they mean VW or the entire VW group, which includes 7 marques: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bugatti and Bentley. And it's all owned by Porsche!

http://www.volkswagenag.com/vwag/vwc...financial.html

Zastava_101

Small cars are popular all over the world except in the USA until recently. VW has plenty of them and Ford doesn't. Ford's problem is that they Focus too much on the USA market and even there they don't have right vehicles. Plus, SEAT and Skoda are really strong sellers in a small car market.

Hollywood_North GT

It's what happens when a North American automaker places short-term gains over a forward-looking, long-term strategy.

Toyota could have built and marketed nothing but larger cars for the North American market (they've certainly been here long enough) - aping what Detroit was doing - but was wise enough to see where the global trends and gas prices were going years ago and instead chose to provide a mix slanted more towards quality compact and small cars. North American automakers ignored the trends...and the public...and the competition - and focused on short-term gain only.

Now we see the monetary results of the two contrasting strategies: One company is the global leader in sales, the other two (GM and Ford) are fighting for their very existence.

karman

Well put.
I have been complaining about the US automakers approach for many years.

Zastava_101

Like I said it before, Ford should start focusing on small cars as soon as gas hit $2.00, not wait until it's $4.50.

Hollywood_North GT

Quite so.

Louie

I know the big oil companies tell the Americans that anything else than gasoline comes from Satan, but what about other fuels? How strong is the move towards E85, biodiesel and so on in the States? Over here (Europe) diesel is an uncontested success story, but since it's gone up in price to only 10% cheaper than gas, people are again trying to find a better solution. Mind you, the same car burns just as much dinosaur juice on both sides of the pond, but here it costs double. I was thinking of buying a diesel Golf for city driving, but it turns out it's not that cheap anymore...

Anyway, back to topic: VW and Audi pretty much dominate the EU market in all segments, with BMW a close second. Nothing you could buy right now comes even close to beating them in price/quality terms.

Eights

Louie: In the US, and perhaps in Canada & Mexico, diesel costs considerably more than gasoline--and that isn't the more highly refined diesel fuel sold in Europe. Doubtless the more highly refined diesel fuel will cost even more than the steep prices diesel retails for here when it becomes the standard for diesel fuel sold here.

I dunno why this is true--a Big Oil Republican in the White House is the chief reason--paying back his buddies who paid for his election and re-election and who will doubtless hire him as a consultant or some other high-paying position at an exorbitant salary when he leaves office in January of '09.

E85 is probably doomed unless it becomes subsidized by the government because it costs more to produce than gasoline and a vehicle has to burn significantly more of it to go an equal distance at the same average speed as the same vehicle has to burn using only gasoline. E85 doesn't pack a lot of calories per gallon, and apparently it's not particularly low in vehicle emissions-per-mile either.

Hydrogen? Also costly to produce, and since it is a gas it will require a complete re-think of storage and fill-up technology--not to mention total redesign of automotive fuel systems. The first problem with Hydrogen as a fuel will be safe methods to carry enough of it on board to permit travelling worthwhile distances between fill ups.

But you know all this.

I am surprised that VW has such a market for its products--is it because VW is protected by tariffs, etc. in Europe versus much of the Asian competition? I bought a '71 Honda CB750 Four motorcycle new in Germany in 1971 and was astonished at the huge taxes a German citizen would have had to have paid for that motorcycle there. I got it duty-free after signing contracts agreeing to pay all the taxes a German citizen would have had to pay originally if I later sold the motorcycle to a German citizen. I shipped it to the US less than a year later and still have it to this day.

Greg "Eights" Ates

Vermillion06

Thanks for reviewing for the millionth time how dumb Ford is and how wonderful and visionary and heaven sent Toyota is, but what does Toyota have to do with VW overtaking Ford in global sales? Toyota <>Volkswagen.

Volkswagen is the largest producer of automobiles in Europe and is lucky to have strong sales in it's home country Germany , while Ford does not have strong sales in its home country right now due to a variety of factors (poor economic conditions, mortgage industry meltdown, truck sales down, perception problems etc.)

Volkswagen used to be the number one selling import brand in the US. In 2008, US sales of all VW models combined YTD (115,524) is less than the number of US Ford Focus sold YTD (123,449).

We all know why Ford is doing poorly in the US, but the big question is why VW seems to be successful everywhere BUT the USA?

Zastava_101

I can answer this for you: because you can't sell same vehicles in Europe and the USA, it doesn't work like that. That's why I'm against bringing Euro Focus, Fiesta, Mondeo and so on to the USA. Those are vehicles that many people will like, but only few will buy.
Toyota realized that long time ago and their lineup is pretty much different for every continent. But VW still keeps pushing their Euro lineup of vehicles to the USA and it's just not working. VW must realized that they need to adapt to the market, not to wait for a market to adapt to them.

Hollywood_North GT

BMW has ONE lineup globally, and they do just fine on both sides of the pond, from the relatively inexpensive introductory 3-Series, all the way up to the luxury prestige 7-series.

And by the way, a number of Toyota (and Honda) vehicles are common around the world, just showing up under different sub-brand or model identities (i.e Euro Honda Accord / North American Acura TSX).

This idea you seem to be pushing that American automakers ought to continue designing vehicles according to "American tastes" (whatever the hell that is supposed to be nowadays) hasn't worked out so well in the recent past (current Mustang excepted). And before anyone here trots out the '08 Focus example yet again, that thing is doing well only because of a perfect storm: appealing combination of features and technology in an inexpensive package at a time when gas prices are high. Guess what? Many B-segment vehicles are doing well right now, too. Call the new Focus a happy accident. I'd speculate that if it had been introduced four years ago, sales wouldn't have been anywhere near what they are right now.

Zastava_101

BMW is a luxury brand. You can't compare their lineup with Ford's.

Toyota and Honda have a few vehicles around the world that are similar to all markets. Jazz/Fit, Accord/TSX and Legend/MDX. That's not many. Only cars that Toyota sells in both Europe and the USA are Yaris and Prius. Again, that's not many.

GM did a great job with Cobalt. It's build specifically for the USA market and guess what, last year it was 3rd best selling compact, behind only Civic and Corolla. And GM also had a lot of success with a Cavalier in the past. And now they started importing Astra and June sales were 888 units.

Why isn't VW successful in the USA? Why isn't Opel successful in the USA?

Hollywood_North GT

BMW is NOT a luxury brand in Europe. It is a staple brand.

Here in North America, 3-Series Bimmers (328) are commonplace. Where I live, there's as many 3-Series as there are Civics; hardly a luxury brand...more of a "me too" car. And have you seen the interior of the current 3-Series, or the orange peel in the paint?! Cheap! Not until you step up to the 5 and 7-Series vehicles do you start talking "luxury".

Cavalier? Are you freakin' kidding me? It's a complete POS! I've driven three of them as loaners over the past 15 years, and they are utter junk! And just because Cavalier may have had more sales in the past than Astra has had this year in no way implies a syllogism. GM sale are down across the board right now (Cadillac somewhat excepted).

Zastava_101

BMW is a luxury brand, both here and in Europe. Sure, they have some cheaper cars like 1-Series, but so does Mercedes and Audi. What are you saying, because there are many of them that's why they're not luxury? Then I guess Mercedes is not a luxury brand either since I saw more S-Classes than Mustangs. Or Lexus, I guess they're not a luxury brand either since IS250 starts at only $30,000 and its a very common car on the streets. Should I even mention Acura and $28,000 TSX?

Cavalier may be a POS, but it was always a strong seller. In fact, it was best seller in the USA for many years in the 1980s.

And you still haven't answer my (and Vermillion06's) question: why is VW doing so poorly in the USA?

Laser98

I can't speak for everyone in the USA but everyone I know, and some other boards, has the impression that VW's are full of gremlins and are not reliable.

Hollywood_North GT

You're hung up on the "luxury" moniker. You said it best yourself above: Several BMW, Mercedes and Acura models are quite affordable in North America, so what difference does it make what nomenclature you hang on them?! Lots of them are affordable and people are buying them...so whether they have a "luxury" connotation is irrelevant. And I still maintain the BMW 1 and 3-Series are not luxury cars, more like entry-level 'prestige' models.

Newsflash: this ain't the '80s anymore. I know you wish it were, and that you think '80s design strategies can save GM and Ford, but it hasn't worked out so well in recent years, now has it?

I've actually partially answered that in another thread. VW has two major problems in North America:

1) Neither Volkswagen nor the North American public quite know what VW is trying to be in North America, and haven't for several years now: a high end brand or a "people's car company" (witness the failure of the Phaeton). It suffers from an identity problem in the sense that it is not a luxury brand, yet it is not really a budget brand, either. Where does that leave VW? As a middle-of the-road Euro car company started by Adolph Hitler. And the "everyman" market segments that it competes in are largely dominated by its Asian rivals here in the U.S. and Canada. Meanwhile, those dedicated to North American products will respond with greater favorability to Ford and GM because they're much more familiar with the name.

2) As was stated in the post above, VW has had a serious quality perception problem for many years, as has its upscale sibling, Audi.

Combine points one and two above and it's no wonder VW sales are sluggish in North America.

Zastava_101

They might be affordable for that company, but they're not affordable in general.
Take a BMW 1-Series for an example. It's a compact that starts at almost $29,000. Is that affordable for a compact? Most of compacts start at or around $15,000, but BMW is selling their at twice that price.

Well it seems to me that all-American Cobalt is doing so much better than all-European Focus.
And guess what, older Taurus was also doing so much better than half-American-half-Japanese Fusion. I know that many of Tauruses sales were fleet sales, but Taurus was easily competing with Camry and Accord. Fusion can't even compete with a Malibu.

Let's forget overprices models like Phaeton and Touareg 2 for a moment.
Rabbit is pretty cheap and economical. Yet even with these high gas prices they can't sell many of them. Same thing with Jetta and Tiguan. These days even a Hyundai manages to sell many Accents (my friend has one and believe me, it's junk), but not Volkswagen.
I know that VW's quality isn't really good, but I don't think anyone pays much attention to that these days. Build a cheap and economical car and it could've been a hit, right? Like I said it, Hyundai Accent is also junk, but they're selling many of them.