Zastava_101

Nice read.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/one-ford...lem-26343.html

Evil_Capri

What will be profits per Fusion vs a CLA?! An article with too much fluff, in my opinion.

Twin Turbo

Well, if One Ford wasn't adopted when it was, there likely wouldn't be a Ford at all right now.............or at least not one that was bailed out like the other two.

To the man in the street, Ford may be "middle of the road", but the reality is most of their cars are now leaders in their field.

One area I think they need to focus back on is motorsport. Win On Sunday, Sell on Monday worked well back in the 60's, and even the 70's and 80's in the UK, at least.

Seeing Mk2 Escorts winning the RAC rally, Mondeos beating all in Touring Cars etc......most of us working class guys have an interest in motorsports and Ford need to capitalize on this again.

The WRC is a shadow of its formers self, and now Ford have pulled out of it. BUT, getting their name back into motorsport would do wonders, if you ask me.

And the Drift Championship doesn't cut it, I'm afraid.

Zastava_101

I don't wanna repeat myself, but although Ford is most of the leaders in their field now, a lot of people still remember Ford from their crappy days.
I met so many people who had Escorts, Focuses, Tauruses, Explorers, Windstars ... in the 1990s and early 2000s and most of them had pretty low quality inside and out (with the exception of Explorer, but his reputation was damaged due to Firestone issues). One of my co-workers, a lady in her late 40s, told me that she had a late 1990s Explorer that she spent so much money on repairs and car still ended at the junkyard before it hit 100,000 miles. She then bought Toyota Highlander that she still drives. And I rode in it many times and it runs great even with 130,000+ miles on it.

Why am I saying all this - because there are plenty of people in the USA who had the similar experience and are little afraid to go back to the Big 3 from proven Toyotas and Hondas.
In the past, many did go back because Big 3 were much cheaper than Toyota/Honda, but not anymore.

That's why I always complain about prices of newer Fords. I'm sure Fusion is just as good as Camry and Accord, and possibly even a better car, but when you take an average family (wo)man, in their mind Camry/Accord is the best because of the reputation and because of the resale value. And for him/her, its hard to justify why should they spend the equal amount of money on a brand new unproven car such as Fusion instead of proven product with great reliability reputation and resale value such as Camry/Accord.

IMO, Ford should've follow the strategy of Hyundai/Kia. Basically build a car that 20% better than the competition (or at least equal as the competition), but at the same time 20% cheaper than the competition. Do that for 10-15 years and then, after your reputation is up, start asking same prices as the proven competition.

Evil_Capri

I'm glad you are not running FMC, but when you secure an executive position with an automotive firm be sure to let us know! Mulally be damned . . .

cdynaco

That worn out excuse again? Maybe for a time in the 70's but by the 80's Ford's dependability was well known.
I bought a used '68 442 in early 70's and it didn't last long so swore off American and I went with a couple of Toyota Land Cruisers instead of GM or Jeep. Then in '81 my coffee company ran a fleet of Ford's and I saw their dependability first hand. So I didn't hesitate in '83 and bought my F150 4x new and you know the rest... 29 yrs and 253k and still pullin' strong.
Make mine Ford thank you.

Zastava_101

Maybe you can then explain it why so outdated Corolla still outsells Focus, by a wide margin, on Focuses own home court (even with all crap that happened to Toyota over the past few years)?

I would recommend reading this book. I really liked it - it was written by a manager who worked at one of the Ford's transmission factories from the late 1970s until the mid 1980s.
You'll be surprised what junk Ford was putting in their cars during that time.

2010MustangGT

???

This is like saying the Charger & 300 are E-Class (5 Series) fighters. It's rare if one even puts these into the same sentence. Ford's will be cast in how it compares to American RWD

Lofty goal tho... just seems to be barking up the wrong tree.

MARZ

Are you saying that, because a car isn't the best seller in its class, it's because of a perceived lack of quality? Does the Ford F-150 outsell the Toyota Tundra, by a wide margin, because truck buyers feel Toyota's trucks are crap? I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why the Corolla is outselling the Focus; you keep attributing it to your personal experiences -- what you've heard, what your acquaintances have said. You may be right but, like I've said time and time again, applying your logic and using my personal experiences, Ford has a sterling reputation and are among the best cars built.

In regards to the book published by Mr. Dewar, I'd bet you anything that you can find anyone working for [insert company name here] -- in ANY industry -- that can outline horror stories at their respective companies. Motives for trashing one's company aside, just because there isn't a book published on the subject, it doesn't mean it isn't true; conversely, just because a book gets published, it's hardly proof that one company produces a higher-quality part than another, in my opinion.

StangMahn

people keep buying Toyota's because people are dumbasses. Any moron that watches a company put out major recalls for potentially deadly items for 2 years and for just about every model in their lineup and still buys the products should be sterilized.

I'm sick of hearing the Ford models are crap because they were crap 20 years ago junk. Ford has changed, and people should pay attention to it. I'm heavily biased towards Fords, but I can't imagine any category where I'd rather have something than a Ford product.

Zastava_101

No, if the car is not the best seller, it doesn't mean that it's because of the lack of quality. Only one car can be the best seller and that doesn't mean that the rest of the competition is a crap.
However, in Corolla's (and also in Civic's) case, why are they the best sellers?
Compared to Focus, Corolla is very outdated, it's ugly as hell, boring to drive, makes the least horsepower in the class, has one of the worst fuel economies in the class, uses ancient technology (4 speed auto) ...
Yet, over the first 9 months this year, that same outdated Corolla outsold Focus by over 36,000 units (and if we use retail sales only - not fleet sales included - the difference would be even bigger, but that's not the point) - and that's on Focuses home court (I don't even wanna go into discussion on how poorly Ford sells in Asia compared to Toyota) and that's also after a big scandal with Toyota's recalls.
So, what's the reason for that, why does Corolla continue to sell that well?
Because of the reputation, which Toyota has been building with Corolla since the late 1960s. Toyota's compacts have the reputation of being very reliable and having a great resale value and Ford's compacts ... well, they don't. Let's face it, Ford was very uncompetitive in the compact segment for a long time - pretty much since the late 1960s Falcons. Pinto, Escort and early Focus was the crap. Ford did a great job with a current 2011+ Focus, but you can't expect for people to forget overnight the crappy compacts Ford was building over the past 40 years because of one great new car. It's gonna take much longer.

I'm sure the same book can be written about any company.
I only mentioned this book because somebody mentioned Ford's reliability in the 1980s.
The factory where Robert Dewar worked used to build transmissions and the quality control there was horrible. Ford only needed for transmissions to last for 1 year or 12,000 miles (standard bumper to bumper quality back then). When the demand was high, the factory would send defective products to be installed in cars - products that was going to be thrown away, but because of the high demand it was still installed in cars.
Ford is still paying for those mistakes ...

Zastava_101

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/look-l...--finance.html

— Oct 13, 2009: Ford Motor Co. adds 4.5 million older-model vehicles to a long list of those recalled due to a defective cruise control switch that can cause fires, pushing Ford's total recall due to faulty switches to 14.3 million. The series of recalls, which began in 1999, becomes the largest cumulative recall in U.S. history.

— Aug. 2000: Bridgestone Firestone recalls 6.5 million tires. At least 271 people are reported killed and hundreds more injured in accidents involving Firestone ATX and AT tires, which were widely used on Ford Explorers. Safety officials discover tires were prone to losing their tread, causing rollovers. Ford separately recalls more than 10 million tires, and the crisis leads to congressional hearings and the passage of the federal TREAD Act in 2000 to spot safety defects earlier.

— March 1996: Ford recalls more than 8 million 1988-1993 cars to replace defective ignition switches in the largest single U.S. recall at the time. The switches can produce electrical shorts, causing engine misfires that led to stalling, as well as and brake and steering failures. The problem is implicated in hundreds of vehicle fires, and as many as 11 deaths and 31 injuries. Ford faces multiple lawsuits.

— 1980: The U.S. government allows Ford to mail warning labels to owners of more than 20 million 1970-1980 cars and light trucks with automatic transmissions that can slip into reverse, thus avoiding the largest safety recall in automotive history. The dashboard stickers advise drivers not to leave the vehicle with the engine running, to use the parking brake and to make sure the transmission has been placed in park. However, NHTSA considers the warnings a recall. NHTSA finds that slipping transmissions caused 6,000 accidents resulting in 1,710 injuries and 98 deaths.

AlsCobra

Zastava I completely agree with just about everything you've been saying in this thread. Ford has really stepped up their quality. Fit and trim is excellent. Options are great. Reputation is still lacking. Styling is WAY lacking. I know everyone here just loves the focus but it's and ugly little car. Styling sells cars before anything. People don't shop consumer reports for cars. They see a car they like and then research it. Hyundai and Kia have great looking cars right now. Ratings are pretty good too. Ford could seriously cut their prices and still not sell any better. Ford needs a facelift. And not Astons face either.

MARZ

What's this prove? I can search Google, too, and there are strikes against Toyota and their sterling reputation. Toyota has a history of producing great, small cars. That's why they sell. Ford, for example, has a history of producing excellent trucks and SUVs. That's why they sell (and why the F-Series pickups have been the best-selling vehicles in the United States for years) -- it's as simple as that. If what you claim were true, the same people leery of Ford because of their sordid past would be all over a truck from Toyota, wouldn't they? Hell, wouldn't all of Toyota's models outsell Ford's competing products? Because that isn't the case, I think your logic is flawed; instead, you seem to chomp at every op-ed piece that's critical of Ford in your zeal to bash the Blue Oval.

Oh, and I bet you Ford does a better job selling their small cars in the not-too-distant future than Toyota does selling their full-size pickups! Well, technically, this is already occurring, but I digress.

Below are just a few results from my aforementioned Google search. Maybe these are the reasons why Ford's trucks absolutely obliterate Toyota's in terms of sales?

Toyota recalls 7.43 Million Vehicles Worldwide, October 10, 2012

"Toyota Motors announced a global recall Wednesday of 7.43 million cars due to a power window problem that poses a fire risk.

The automaker said that the driver's side power window switch on some models may feel "notchy" or sticky during operation. The problem is caused by an uneven application of grease during the switch assembly process, and if commonly available lubricants are applied, a fire could result under some circumstances."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/inve...all/index.html


Sep 26, 2007 – US: 55,000 Camry and ES 350 cars in "all-weather" floor mat recall.

Nov 02, 2009 – US: 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles again recalled due to floor mat problem, this time for all driver's side mats.

Nov 26, 2009 – US: floor mat recall amended to include brake override and increased to 4.2 million vehicles.

Jan 21, 2010 – US: 2.3 million Toyota vehicles recalled due to faulty accelerator pedals (of those, 2.1 million already involved in floor mat recall).

Jan 27, 2010 – US: 1.1 million Toyotas added to amended floor mat recall.

Jan 29, 2010 – Europe, China: 1.8 million Toyotas added to faulty accelerator pedal recall.

Feb 08, 2010 – Worldwide: 436,000 hybrid vehicles in brake recall following 200 reports of Prius brake glitches.

Feb 08, 2010 – US: 7,300 MY 2010 Camry vehicles recalled over potential brake tube problems.

Feb 12, 2010 – US: 8,000 MY 2010 4WD Tacoma pick-up trucks recalled over concerns about possible defective front drive shafts.

Apr 16, 2010 – US: 600,000 MY 1998–2010 Sienna minivans for possible corrosion of spare tire carrier cable.

Apr 19, 2010 – World: 21,000 MY 2010 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado and 13,000 Lexus GX 460 SUV's recalled to reprogram the stability control system.

Apr 28, 2010 – US: 50,000 MY 2003 Toyota Sequoia recalled to reprogram the stability control system.

May 21, 2010 – Japan: 4,509, US: 7,000 MY 2010 LS for steering system software update.

July 5, 2010 – World: 270,000 Crown and Lexus models for valve springs with potential production issue.

July 29, 2010 – US: 412,000 Avalons and LX 470s for replacement of steering column components.

August 28, 2010 – US & Canada: approximately 1.13 million Corolla and Corolla Matrix vehicles produced between 2005 and 2008 for Engine Control Modules (ECM) that may have been improperly manufactured.

February 22, 2011 – US: Toyota recalls an additional 2.17 million vehicles for gas pedals that become trapped on floor hardware.

To quote Zoran, "Maybe you can then explain it why so outdated Corolla still outsells Focus, by a wide margin." Or, for that matter, how does any Toyota model sell? They're far from pretty; to me, they're some of the most vanilla, bland-looking vehicles on the road. From everything I've seen and everyone I've talked to, Ford's on the right track; the new Fusion has evoked more praise in terms of styling from buyers and reviewers alike, in my opinion, than anything from Toyota, Nissan, et al. Instead of copying Aston Martin, would you prefer Ford steal elements from Mercedes and Lexus like Hyundai does?

Flagstang

it out sells because it is outdated... old people have a hard time with change.. just think.. they get to the buy the same car for 20 years over and over! might feel like change or time had slowed.

AlsCobra

I guess people just prefer bland over fugly.

MARZ

While the new, "regular" Focus isn't my cup of tea (I like the Focus ST), it and the rest of Ford's current and upcoming lineup are no uglier than,











If these are your definition of good-looking, you definitely need your eyes checked.

And, while these aren't bad, they're anything but original,

AlsCobra

Hey man. I wouldn't buy a Hyundai or Kia either. But I also wouldn't buy a Ford other than a mustang or pickup either.

Zastava_101

The only reason why I posted that list is because David (StangMahn) said that people who buy Toyotas are morons since Toyota had some many recalls recently.
Well, guess what? In 2011 Ford had just as many recalls as Toyota did. Does that mean that Ford's buyers are morons too?

I agree with that, but there is a problem in what whole story - we're comparing Ford at their home court and Toyota at their foreign market.
Toyota does business so much better in the USA than Ford ever did in Asia.
The fact that Corolla and Camry outsell Focus and Fusion, by a wide margin, on Ford's home court tells you a lot. Because on Toyota's home court, Ford pretty much does not exist.

Although most of the cars on your list are ugly (with the exception on Soul; I love the looks of Soul), when it comes to ugly, no car in the USA can compete against Fiesta sedan.





The "new" Econoline is in the 2nd place. SuperDuty's headlights and grille look so ugly on the Econoline.

Flagstang

its a work van who cares..

The kia soul is soul'less and ugly as sin