So you're telling me that Ford with it's vast engineering resources...can't design an affordable IRS system that can't wheel hop. Oh wait. that's right, it's the beancounters engineering the cars now.

 

Now wait a second, that doesn't sound right. I though that the '07 Shelby was going to have a T-56 six-speed manual gearbox, not a five-speed. Every news article I've read has said that there was definitely going to be a six-speed tranny, and I haven't seen anything contrary to that information on any Ford forums. Even Ford's SVT site confirms that the Shelby will include the T-56 six-speed tranny.

Here's the link to the SVT article (they mention the tranny at the end of the article): Shelby Powertrain

Has anyone else heard this five-speed rumor? :scratch:

 

Well, actually a top-loader 4 speed, a leaf spring rear axle, drum brakes all around and bias ply tires. SVT's latest Mustang owner consumer sampling indicated their targeted buyers didn't want all that fancy modern ricer hi-tech stuff -- nothing more than a big-azz gizzillion-horsepower mega-cube V8 motor cast in genuine dug-up-in-the-U.S. of A. iron.

As SVT marketing confidently asserts, most owners don't know what's under the skin anyway, so why bother wasting all that money on fancy-smancy engineering nobody will see when they can put it into some hot new deluxe cash-rebate TV ad campaign that will touch millions.

"If God wanted the Mustang to turn 'n stop fast," was quoted one Mulleted Stang owner in the survey, "He would'a put curves in the drag strip and a brick wall 50 feet beyond the 1/4 mile line. If a live axle and PolyGlide tires were good enough fer gran' daddy to get a hole shot, they're good enough for me."

And the tens of thousands of dollars per car it now costs SVT to develop each of these components is better saved to butch up the GT500 a whole bunch with great big fake scoops, lots and lots of stripes and great big spoilers lest anyone question their owners' manhoods, a fact that SVT customer surveys also indicated was very important.

"Can you believe people actually wanted to spend 8-big extra for a panty-waist IRS," was quoted another old school Stanger as he crushed yet another drained Schlitz in his manly bare hand, "when for that money, you could get at least 10 or 12 more scoops and spoilers, and maybe even another stripe or two. Is that what they learn d'em college boys nowadays? Besides, I heard that a French car has IRS and you know what THAT means dontcha...."

 

LOL that was a good one

 

Now even HTT is making fun of us IRS-whiners. In the current Hot Rod Magaazine, he is quoted as saying "We will never appease those IRS snobs". Well at least we know we have been complaining loud enough!

 

Sure he can, put an IRS in the GT500 like originally promised!

Coletti and crew was able to do it, affordably, in a chassis never even intended for one, so why can't HTT and his gang?

Simple enough.

 

I'm really missing John Coletti.

 

I really think we should all just simmer down. We should stop whining about/defending Ford's suspension chioce for the Shelby. We have no numbers to go on. We don't know the curb weight fo the car, it's weight ratio, etc. We don't have even the roughest of estimates on how this car will perform.

I say let's give Ford a shot. Have a little faith. If everyone stays so negative about the car, then the thing could pull 1.01g on the skid pad and we'd STILL be unhappy. We should try to stay positive or at LEAST neutral. Let's take a look at the numbers before we start complaining and casting the Shelby's suspension into the fiery depths, okay?

 

Pull 1G with the factory SRA. Man..you are an optimist.

The SRA defenders are not going to care if the car turns 1.0 G on the pad or if handles like a wet noodle, all they care about is how fast the cars goes in 1320 feet.

The IRS will be placated, but will wonder how much ride comfort had to be sacrificed in order to achieve that. heck, none of the IRS defenders are saying an SRA can't be made to handle. But to make it handle at the level of an IRS, well, let's just say it will 1987 GT revisited.

 

Like the car would pull 1g with an IRS

 

I KNOW pulling 1g on the skid pad is exotic territory. I was exaggerating to make my point. If we're all so negative about the car, it won't matter if it's the best handling car in the world, we'll STILL gripe about it! Sheesh!

I can't believe the point of my post was lost on you guys and you managed to spin it into another SRA/IRS agrument.

 

There are stories in the press that the prototypes w/ IRS did just that.

 

Seeing is believing my man.

Now put some sticky shoes on the Shelby and maybe retune the suspension and I wont argue as I think SRA or IRS thats possible,but 1g with stock tuning and tires is something I think isn't possible.

 

Why would that be so hard to believe? It msy be that the IRS is just that much better than the SRA.

 

1g is not that unrealistic. Wide summer tires, good IRS, and a design with a little dowforce -- completely plausible. (I'm not sure how much downforce the rear defuser generates, or if there's anything else that helps). It's plausiable with SRA; just not keeping your fillings in if you go over a bump as well.

Now while I believe it is plausible -- looking the Cobra -- it's pretty high off the ground, and doesn't look to have the shape/elements to generate some good downforce. And I don't think they are testing at 150MPH on a skidpad. So I wouldn't be that surprised to see NEARLY 1g if the car was tuned/designed for it. But expect the numbers will be far below that (especially with SRA).

 

Besides the Cobra R did it very easily, according to Motor Trend.

From Motor Trends drive of the "R":

To get an SRA to that level of performance requires you sacrifice your kidneys.

 

So you are telling me on a level skid pad which tends to be pretty smooth you've got to jack up the spring rate to increase road holding ability with an SRA over an IRS.

And the reason being?

I can swallow arguments about how IRS smoooths out the ride or you get camber gain with an IRS, yadda, yadda, yadda, but how does this count going in a circle on smooth level pavement?

From where I'm standing it doesn't, your gonna have to jack up spring rates on IRS and SRA to improve body roll and the like.

Anyway the point is moot. I think the only real hope for the IRS crowd is if GM manages to pull out of the flat spin its in and offers a reborn F-body with IRS, then maybe you guys will get your wish.

 

There are a few things which affect roll rates -- anti-roll bars stiffness, spring rates, suspension geometry roll centers, CG height, etc. -- but I don't think the lively axle is any better/worse than IRSs in general on this count. And smooth road skid pad behavior is as much or more a test of tire adhesion than suspension capability anyway -- probably the best skid pad test car would be a suspensionless go-cart.

I think you're right about Ford offering an IRS -- they won't because they don't have to, not because a buggy axle is necessarily the best choice. Ford is hemorraging money at a prodigious rate too, so unless GM and/or DC (or someone else???) offers up a Pony Car competitor with a fully modern suspension, Ford's just going to sink that development money and effort into SUVs and trucks rather than the good enough Mustang.

 

The way I look at it, the hard core drag racers out there racing Cobra's have swapped out the IRS for SRA, and Mustangs have been successful in many levels of road racing for oh, 40 years, where most of those came with the SRA. It's not a vette. It's not intended to be a vette. The SRA in the new car is much improved, and I am sure it will improve more in the Shelby. Look at the numbers of the votes. I know Ford had similar votes that they asked a large section of Mustang enthusiasts, and guess what, it was nearly the same as we have here.

Majority rules, end of story. Ford was going to kill the mustang when they were going to put it's badge on the Probe in 89. A large majority of Mustang drivers and potential buyers said "no way" and they listened.
I think we got enough to praise about this new stang that we can forgive the SRA, but if you are a non 99+ cobra driver, you should be used to that anyway, and there is a reason you are here, because you love your mustang, like the rest of us. SRA or IRS, if I have the money when it's time to order, I will will order mine.

 

Anyone else think Ford might be holding off the IRS for when sales start to lag?

I certianly think the fevor over the GT gave the bean counters (and even the marketers) more ammunition to keep it cheap for now. And I wouldn't be surprised if several years down the road the IRS will find its way back.