gt5000

for lazy people that dont want to use a clutch, but still want a racey feel to the car, and the enjoyment of shifting.

ZRX4ME

what I meant was no cammer 5.0 engine in a svt product.I also hear that a IRS will come out,but a bit later.I will have more in a week-know a guy who works for a vendor.

mustang_sallad

there are some transmissions that are automatics that you can shift, like sport mode or whatever you want. But then ferraris and bmw's sometimes have those SMG transmissions (i think that's what their called, sequential manual gearbox maybe?). Those are manuals with an electronically controlled clutch or something. So the insides are like a regular manual, but the clutch operates automatically. I know with BMWs new 7 speed sequential, its basically a necessity because the gears are arranged very wierdly and the shifting patern would be pretty complex. And then there's audi's DSG transmission, which has two clutches. While you're in one gear, the transmission lines up the next gear with the other clutch, so shifts are super quick.
Formula 1 cars have SMGs.

crazyhorse

Be aware that there are paddle shifter set ups that aren't like you describe. Mazda has paddle shifters in the automatic RX-8s but the tranny is a traditional automatic. There's no clutch at all. It's really no different than the automatics that have a "sport-shift" mode where you can manually shift it.
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That is what I meant by different technical variations. I just didn't want to explain all that.

crazyhorse

faster shifts and still be able to control when it shifts. Road course times can be significantly reduced with one.

grabbergreen

That's right. The MOD 4.6 and 5.4 share the same bore. The 5.4 just has a longer stroke, hence why it needs a taller block.

Also, the LS7 used in the new 2006 Corvette Z06 uses the ancient Chevy small-block architecture, which, to my knowledge, possesses a substantially larger footprint than the MOD's block.

Keep in mind that the MOD V8 was meant to be a fairly compact motor to power the Lincoln Town Car, and be able to switch to V6 and V10 variants with minimal re-tooling, which explains why Ford didn't leave much room to increase the bore-- the variable here was SUPPOSED to be the number of cylinders, as opposed to bore/stroke displacement variables.

Does anyone know much about the 5.4L in the Ford GT? I would think with such a long stroke for such a small bore, such a motor would not be suited to sports car duty (assuming, of course, that it is a MOD)...

jsaylor

That's right. The MOD 4.6 and 5.4 share the same bore. The 5.4 just has a longer stroke, hence why it needs a taller block.

Also, the LS7 used in the new 2006 Corvette Z06 uses the ancient Chevy small-block architecture, which, to my knowledge, possesses a substantially larger footprint than the MOD's block.

Keep in mind that the MOD V8 was meant to be a fairly compact motor to power the Lincoln Town Car, and be able to switch to V6 and V10 variants with minimal re-tooling, which explains why Ford didn't leave much room to increase the bore-- the variable here was SUPPOSED to be the number of cylinders, as opposed to bore/stroke displacement variables.

Does anyone know much about the 5.4L in the Ford GT? I would think with such a long stroke for such a small bore, such a motor would not be suited to sports car duty (assuming, of course, that it is a MOD)...
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The LS7 is on the heavily revised architecture of the new GM small-block, and as much as I cannot stand Chevy, actually takes up far less space than any mod motor. The deep skirts, wide heads, and tall deck of the mod motr makes for an engine that looks pretty large when you are stadning next to one.

Also, the small bore of the mod-motor is more of a concession to it's intended duty in several different fwd platforms than anything else. Most of these applications were cancelled before the mod-motor even made it's production debut, but the short length Ford wanted this motor to have to make this application easier is still with us.

Some folks complain about the 5.4L's bore/stroke relationship and deem it unsuitable for peformance car duty in an trim other than supercharged. I disagree as the power output of the 5.4L is very reminiscent of the old big-blocks from back in the day. A whole lot of low end torque and a hp number that is deceptively low.

Rev her til she screams motors with virtually no torque are not the only avenue to higher power, and outside of the Boss 302 not a particularly American way to higher power levels either. I wouldn't mind seeing a bored-out 6.0L version of the current 5.4L motor in n/a hi-po duty to make the balance a bit better, but I would rather have the 5.4L than an engine totally unsuited to a SE Mustang or a GT.

Josh69

An SMG or similar has a clutch disk, pressure plate and flywheel. A manu-matic, or semi-auto, or what-have-you has a torque converter and valve body. Easiest way to explain it.

BMW does it to keep donkies named jack from over revving their engines and from ruining the clutch and flywheel since people can't drive anymore. BMW has had to replace countless M5 and M3 motors under warranty due to other issues, but throw in some wild missed shifts, etc. and that further complicates things such as placing blame when you have a $30K engine that now has holes in it. They can also log how high you are revving it between shifts, etc. There are 11 shift modes for their SMG, 9 in the US, because like I said, people here can't drive sticks to save their asses, and they don't trust us, so the full-tilt race mode launch isn't invited to our party. SVT might be looking into that for the same reasons....I've heard that the new M5 will only be available with the SMG, to prevent user error with a clutch. How bad does that stink?

Steptronic and tiptronic style auto tranny's give the user the ability to decide when to shift, and make it more dynamic, but it's still lame. I think you need to go all in, or not at all. If I have an auto, I don't want to do a darn thing. If I have a stick, I want to play with it. Wait, what are we talking about again?

crazyhorse

I don't mind offering SMG, but I won't buy without standard clutch pedal and stick shift.

rhumb

More than attempting to idiot-proof cars for the American market -- a fool's folly if ever there was one -- the main advantage to SMG/DSG/whatevers is their lightning fast shifts, on the order of well under 250 msec and approaching almost instantaneous in the case of DSGs.

If you figure a decent manual shift can take well over 500 msec, there is a great potential performance improvement here. Figure a very conservative improvement of 250 msec (.25 seconds) saved per shift and two shifts in a 1/4 mile run, that is a 1/2 second shaved off ones time right there. Of course this is a bit of an over simplification, but you get the idea of the potential performance advantage.

In something longer than a quick 1/4 spurt, those milliseconds saved really start adding up, say, over an hour road course race. Imagine how many shifts are done in that venue. Also factor in that one can keep their paws on the wheel when executing the shifts and the added vehicle controllability factor looms large too. While this might not mean much in the rather simplified realm of an arrow-straight dragstrip, its huge when trying to, say, execute a couple of quick down shifts braking into a descending, decreasing radius turn with a few mid-apex bumps thrown in to make things interesting.

As for the idiot-proofing value, a lot of that can be accomplished by current electronics now, such a over-rev cutoffs and the like. But the SMG/DSB software can certainly be programmed to add yet another layer of cushion for the halt and inept drivers out there.

crazyhorse

I agree that it saves time, but not on a 1:1 ratio. The car doesn't stop while you are shifting, it just is not accelerating. In the brief time of the shift, I'm sure you don't lose much speed either.

I'd say a bigger advantage is driver fatigue.

mustang_sallad

I dunno man, i believe what i heard has a lot to do with it. With 7 gears, they had to arrange them in a complicated patern that would've made shifting manually with a stick very tough.

Arboc

I dunno man, i believe what i heard has a lot to do with it. With 7 gears, they had to arrange them in a complicated patern that would've made shifting manually with a stick very tough.
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that is true

Josh69

that is true
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That makes more sense. 7-speed? Dayumm!! I have 6 gears in my S4 and I don't even use 5th anymore and mines the peaky 2.7 Twin Turbo...so I'd have to shift from 3rd to 7th with all that torque and power band, or just go to 6 and forget about 7....jeez louise. Seems excessive.

Anyhoo....sorry to hijack the thread, I gotta get back to my stick.

Stang281

I'm a little skeptical on this. From what I understand, the 5.0 Cammer isn't approved for commercial vehicles. I seem to remember it has something to do with it not meeting long term durability specs or some such. Perhaps someone else can remember.
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Don't know if anyone's commented on this yet. But I don't believe the 5.0 Cammer is emission legal therefore we won't likely see a production model with this in it.

Monkey302

The SMG in cars such as the F430 can take as littl as .130 seconds to shift. You want time to add up well there it is. The European BMW M3 in race mode also has a sequence for a eprfect clutch dump launch on the dragstrip. Put it in a particular mode, step on the brake, step on the gas and then let off the brake after the engine revs and holds to around 4000RPM. Perfect launches everytime. But, in europe it is logged on the computer how many times you use it and after thr tenth time your warrenty is removed. That was considered illegal in the US so we got different computer programs. Some dealers have imported european spec computers to allow there customers to do the clutch dump with no risk. In the Audi SMG there is no powerloss during the shift. The transmission always has one gear up preloaded and spinning so that the shift is near instantanious. The computer goes even farther by predicting whena downshift will occur and doing the opposite. Also the computer in almost all SMG's will match revs for you when downshifting. And lockout a gear if you are going to fast to downshift. Simply put they give the knowledge of any race driver into the common driver. Let's face it few of us have the skill of Andretti. I feel that SMG's will be what all cars have in the future. CVT's are on the way out due to the incredible tolerances needed and more gears improve the efficiency of an engine. Who could honestly master a 7 speed shift pattern quickly on a road course? They are also just as efficient as a traditional manual allowing for only 15% driveline loss compared to the 20% of an automatic. In the future all cars may have an SMG even if you are not allowed to shift it on your own because of the efficiency that they have. A long time rumor was that the Ford Mustang was going to be the first car (besides the Toyota MR2 Spider, which honestly isn't mass produced) to have an affordable SMG.

Josh69

I look forward to trying one out. My Audi service rep last night told me he just drove the new TT with the DSG (similar to SMG, but Audi's version, and I think it has two clutches, as stated in the above post, but I'm not positive). He said it was the most fun thing he's ever driven, and he's a real enthusiast with a 6spd S4 like mine and a VW GTI VR6 with mods. He said it blips the throttle between shifts and the sound and shifting response is awesome.

I guess I never thought about how fun an SMG could really be....hmmmmm.

The other advantage is that they have an near automatic setting as well so you can just put it in go and let it do all the work for you when you aren't feeling sporting, and just want to have a soda or rub on your girls leg......or other places...ahem. I'm finished now.

crispy23c

ummmmm....back to the thread.....?

Josh69

What do you care, you haven't contributed anything to the topic at hand?

Besides, the last half of the posts are about the potential of SMG or similar in a Cobra, and since this is all speculation, either all or non of it is relevant, depending on your perspective....

So Chill.

KGSGT350

What do you care, you haven't contributed anything to the topic at hand?

Besides, the last half of the posts are about the potential of SMG or similar in a Cobra, and since this is all speculation, either all or non of it is relevant, depending on your perspective....

So Chill.
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Josh, lower your octane buddy. I agree, People come back to the thread to see updates on the thread and whole topic changed.