OBleedingMe

I finding it very amusing that no one here is bothering to mention that the SRA equipped '05 Mustang in the Grand American Series is kicking the living heck out of every other IRS equipped car brand in that series. This includes BMW, Chevy, Chrysler and Porsche.

Yes, all the cars are modified, but not extremely so. The Mustang has won 4 out of the 5 races completed so far in the series. In fact, in the first race, they came in 1st AND 2nd!! In the last race, they came in 1st, 3rd, and 4th!! And the winning car had to race 7/8ths of the race with no ABS!!! A 25k car with a "prehistoric" suspension is ripping up 80k - 120k European cars left and right. I wonder why all those condemning a car they have never driven are failing to mention this fact?

Yes, the ride in an SRA will be more harsh... but hey, this is a HIGH-PERFORMANCE SPORTS CAR! If you want a luxury coupe, go buy an Infiniti. There are plenty of other choices out there for those who want a fast car with a cushy ride. If you can't handle the harsher ride then you obviously need a car that better suits your needs. This car is going to built to be RACED. It's not going to be built with ride comfort as a prime factor. Performance is 1#, as it should be with any car carrying the Shelby emblem.

You wouldn't buy a Mustang GT to go offroading, would you? No, you'd buy an SUV. So if you want something that's going to massage your buttocks while you drive on a 500 mile road trip, don't buy an '07 Shelby. Buy a Lexus.

Geez, have a little faith, guys. Be a little more positive. I hope this car will be able to corner great too - and I think it will. SRA may mean a harsher ride, but it doesn't mean the car's handling will stink.

Lalo

Amen

68notch

That would involve actually doing something, rather than blowing hot air.

Lalo

I'm pretty sure the old Cobra has it because it needed it (imagine it with SRA). this new cobra doesnt. Ford isnt stupid enough that they wont put it on a 40K car if it really needed it, and risk losing most of their sales the next year.

Lalo

They may be losing money, but it has nothing to do with the Mustang using SRA.
If Ford stopped making mustangs, they still wouldnt feel a big hit, because the truck and suv market is their bread and butter.
They are losing money because the SUV/ Truck market is falling.
and like V10 said, Ford does have vehicles with IRS

1 COBRA

Hau Tai Tang has publicly said all the right things up to now. He has been very careful and calculating in all the interviews that I am aware of. He could have won the Mr. Political Correctness of the Year award.

Now, why a person of his stature, intellect, and position, emphasize and highlight an insult directed at a segment of the SVT customer base, one which has been loyal even enduring some of Ford's embarrassing shortcomings, when he knows he is being quoted and any news related to SVT will spread like wild fire? There must be a motive.

His predecessor just about rolled the carpet for the SVT customers and he is trying his best to distance himself from the very customer which most likely buy his product. Interesting.

It seems our little SVT savior is becoming a bit of a snob himself.

Joes66Pony

Because the Grand-Am is an artificially equated racing series. You wanna bring up facts like that, why not bring up the fact the FR500C is allowed to run a non-production engine, while the Bimmers and Porsches are limited to production pieces. Place it in ALMS GT2 or even Speed World Challenge and we'll see how well it really stacks up against Porsches and Bimmers. Ford better milk all the publicity they because before long the NASCAR Mafia....errr GARRA will clamp down on the FR500C's obvious power advantage. Also, find me where I can buy and FR500C for 25K, cause the last time I checked the Ford Racing website, MSRP for the FR500C is 120K.

Quote:

Originally posted by OBleedingMe@May 16, 2005, 7:38 PM
Yes, the ride in an SRA will be more harsh... but hey, this is a HIGH-PERFORMANCE SPORTS CAR! If you want a luxury coupe, go buy an Infiniti. There are plenty of other choices out there for those who want a fast car with a cushy ride. If you can't handle the harsher ride then you obviously need a car that better suits your needs. This car is going to built to be RACED. It's not going to be built with ride comfort as a prime factor. Performance is 1#, as it should be with any car carrying the Shelby emblem.

If Ford wanted to build a RACE car, they should build a race car. This is supposed to be a serious performance machine, but it's obvious it's aimed at only aspect of performance, the straight line aspect. For one, it's designed for the street, meaning it has to deal with real world situations. So unless you plan on trailering the car to the drag every time, or just leave it in the garage, I would bet that harsh ride would get old real quick. I think many of us remembering the harsh ride that the old 87-93 5.0's gave.

<!--QuoteBegin-OBleedingMe@May 16, 2005, 7:38 PM
You wouldn't buy a Mustang GT to go offroading, would you? No, you'd buy an SUV. So if you want something that's going to massage your buttocks while you drive on a 500 mile road trip, don't buy an '07 Shelby. Buy a Lexus.

Geez, have a little faith, guys. Be a little more positive. I hope this car will be able to corner great too - and I think it will. SRA may mean a harsher ride, but it doesn't mean the car's handling will stink.
[/quote]

The point of IRS is that offers a better compromise of ride and handling over SRA. Why should I have to sacrifice ride comfort in order to get handling. Why should I have to put up with mid corner stability and vague rear end? It's easy for you to say, go look someplace else. Fine, but there are some of us who truly love the Mustang and expected more than what we were given. Plus, when it all boils down to it, those of us who want IRS are frankly sick of being lied to by HTT and Ford.

Robert

Amen, brother.

Robert

Do you have to get bashed in the head with a brick to know you won't enjoy it? Some things are self-evident, like the limitations of SRA, for example.

I put it to you: If SRA is so wonderful, why has every other manufacturer in the world abandoned it on their passenger cars?

HTT's comments about "snobs" tells me that he's simply feeling defensive about big brother's cost-cutting measures.

Boomer

this is hilarious.

Why is it on those cars?
Why is it this...why is it that.

You don't go dear hunting with a bazooka. It'll do the job, but its not the right tool for the job. Mind you, you can use various types of firearms/weapons that will accomplish similar things and still be effective. Its comparing apples oranges.

-Other cars are on other platforms
-Other cars aren't the same wheel drive
-other cars don't have a 5.4L Supercharged beast engine
-other cars are handbuilt and cost more money than the mod team combined
-other cars are built for other purposes
-other cars

I really don't want to turn this into a SRA/IRS debate. Cause its been done before over and over again.

Fact: 05 GT with its so neanderthal SRA outperforms the 03 Cobra's IRS.
Why is that? Theres TONNES of reasons... newer platform, better weight distro, etc etc. Its in the same vein of why the GT500 with its SRA will outperform other cars that DO have an IRS.
And was money a contributing factor?
You betcha...no one is arguing that.

But now bring in the.... would you spend say... 3000 extra for a car that had 20 extra HP? The cost hast to justfiy the means.
In this case, its been stated FOR that extra cost, and for how many people WOULD actually notice... its not worth it. (and they are probably setting it up for a future upgrade, but it still has to be worth the cost)
(lets get real now, ford is out for money too...it has to make money)

And for the ammount of SVT vehicles that are sold, you're smoking something if you think that it'll 'alienate' their market. SVT vehicles are a drop in the bucket compared to regular mustang owners...who are a drop in the bucket for ford vehicles.

What it comes down to if you REALLY wanted to complain...the regular v6/v8s should have had the IRS.
And we KNOW that a SRA V8 won't sell...right?
oh wait....

Robert

Because most of us don't spend ALL our time at the track, or ALL our time on the highway, or ALL our time darting around in city traffic. Those of us who live in the real world need a car that can successfully manage a variety of driving conditions without beating us up. Most of us can't afford the luxury of two expensive cars to pull double or triple duty.

The point is that with today's technological advances, it's quite possible to have one car that can strike a successful balance between the two. Muscle and refinement. Speed and comfort. But Ford chose to take the cheap way out yet again, because it's apparently only creating these cars with its core customer base in mind. And HTT's remarks about "snobs" drives this point home.

You must understand that SRA provides better unsprung weight control, particularly on bad road surfaces where upsetting one wheel with an SRA will automatically upset the other. It also provides a better balance between handling prowess and ride comfort.

The physics of IRS are superior. That's it. End of story.

Boomer

Ok getting hit in the head is different than a rear suspension.
Your logic is flawed.

Right, SRA suck..they must. Because everyone else uses IRS.
I guess pushrod engines are dead too, because its accient technology.
GM seems to have gotten that right...why?
Ohhhh because its refined....not unlike any old technology that is brought into the common era.

Just because its old, doesn't mean it sucks.
Now if it was the exact SAME, with nothing updated...then something is wrong.

Its like saying UNIX sucks because its from the 70s...

Joes66Pony

That and they needed the extra 5 grand (or whatver the latest figure is) so they could slap Shelby's name all over the thing.

Robert

Actually, I don't go dear hunting.

But that's another conversation.

You're missing the entire point here. NO OTHER AUTOMAKER CONTINUES TO USE SRA IN ITS PASSENGER AUTOMOBILES! Didja ever wonder why? And then, didja wonder why Ford is still using the tree log?

What is this, 1890?

Robert

Now who's logic is flawed?

Evil_Capri

Someone made the point, I think it was Joes66Pony, that they felt this generation of Mustang will never get IRS. I agree with that statement. If Ford were planning a RWD sedan based on the Mustang Chassis (and not the LS, T-bird, S-type Chassis) they'd have made an IRS setup for the Mustang. It seems Ford has no plans in the near future for a new RWD platform, and no the USA is not getting a Global Falcon chassis. (At least that is my understanding.)

I'll withhold judgement until a production Shelby is ready for testing. I'm sure that the car will perform exceptionally well, maybe even better than some expect, but from a Global perspective the lack of IRS makes one wonder . . .at least to me, "why not".

The thing that gets me is that Ford can create a IRS for the old Fox chassis, which was a stand alone chassis for the last number of years, but they can't for a new designed chassis . . .it just doesn't make sense.

And while the GT500 won't add much to the bottom line, it will bring people into the showroom, and there in lies another chapter in the story of selling. Will the traffic lead to additional 'looks' at the Fusion, Five Hundred, Focus (wish we had the Euro version, but that is another story), and the aging (but profitable) CV.

Robert

That's my point, exactly. It DOESN'T make sense. And for a company like Ford - who are losing money - to make nonsensical decisions is very troubling to me. It makes me wonder just what is wrong at the top, and frankly, if they can survive the rising tide of import onslaught.

Joes66Pony

Compared to LINUX, yeah UNIX does stink. I mean heck..I learned programing using FORTRAN. It was more than capable of doing what I needed, does that mean I should forego LINUX and go back to FORTRAN simply because it's "good enough".

Boomer

Because people are sheep....they want 'the best' regardless of what it'll do for them, or whether they will use it. Plain and simple.

You can have an SRA that will outperform a shoe horned IRS, yet people will still go for the IRS because its what people have said is 'what the best is' regardless of the SRA car handling better and costing less.

These are the same people who will blindly go and buy an Intel 3.0GHZ processor instead of an AMD because its got a 'faster clockspeed', even though a 2.0ghz Athlon will wipe the floor with it.
Or buy a car based on horsepower ratings...regardless of torque or weight.....

It all comes down to engineering and building a better mousetrap.
Some people believe the hype... and some people do not.

1 COBRA

Would you be interested in a title for title match?

Apparently you haven't noticed that for the past 4 years every time Ford brings out a new Mustang model it carries "the best ever label", stamped by Ford. Looks like in a few your outperforming '05 GT will be manure fertilizing along side the rest of us.