TexaStang

I believe they removed the Shelby letters.

burningman

thank god

max2000jp

Bring Back John Coletti!!! I am not impressed with HTT as of right now. He is really doing the SVT brand a disservice as of right now. ~4000lbs and no IRS is a great recipe for a great handling track worthy car. Gentlemen, IMO you are paying for the Shelby name, engine, and some cheap body mods. Spend your hard earned money on a GT and mod it. You can build one heck of a built engine, perfect for forced induction, for the 10-15K price difference between the GT and GT500.

sharpie

I really hate to agree, but.....I've been waiting impatiently like everyone else for the next generation Cobra. My jaw dropped along with everyone elses with the next Mustang "concept", and as usual, Ford screwed the pooch. Don't get me wrong , the 'Stang is beautiful, but not nearly as much as the concept was. Is there a reason they couldnt make the car more like the concept (a lot of other car makers are previewing their concepts and aren't scared to make it a production vehicle). Now the Cobra is getting watered-down (no IRS, fat as you-know-what, sharing V6 body parts,etc.. I still am planning on getting one...but I'm gradually questioning my reasoning to do so.

rhumb

I must agree with this totally.

The GT500 has been an ever increasing miasma of diminishing expectations, content and execution. While features, technology and engineering are trimmed, price and weight bloat alarmingly. Coletti and his team's work seemed to evidence the technical rigor and focus of engineer-based car nuts, even while working with an ancient chassis making their accomplishments all the more remarkable. Coletti's Cobras reflected clever performance engineering, retrained and sophisticated aesthetics and huge value and content for the money.

HTT's team efforts seem to reflect that of a more business/marketing approach. Sure, there's good engineering to be found -- where deemed absolutely necessary for the ad campaigns and to jack the price. The GT500 is turning out to be a moderately impressive big-motored showboat. This might make some sense with the Mustang's evolution away from it's Pony Car roots to that of a more single minded muscle car but for its rapidly diminishing bang for the buck factor. Perhaps this simply is a logical outcome of HTT's corporate, non-engineering background and approach as he seems generally to be a bright and competent sort, at least within the confines of his expertise.

I also suspect that a one car class, as, say, a one party (any party) executive and legislative political branches, only breeds corpulence, complacity, hubris and arrogance. "Sure we can now offer less for more, with an approapriate dose of surface flash for the marketing department, where else are they going to go?"

Well, there now appears that there will be at least two (Camaro, Challenger) and maybe more new Pony Car players in the near future. My hope is that this will instill some corporate modesty and rethinking, giving us more content and engineering for less cost than now seems to be the case.

My hope is that, seeing the Camaro and Challenger concepts will loom forebodingly over the GT500 at the NAIAS, they are now quickly refiguring their pricing numbers and considering putting in all the contemporary technologies (IRS, at least as an option) that the previous Cobras included as a matter of course. Not sure what to do about all the fat and bloat, perhaps and aluminum block would be a good place to start. But I fear that the GT500 is revealing some huge competitive ****** that the other upcoming Pony Cars will only be too eager and entirely capable of taking advantage of.

Perhaps Coletti is getting tired of playing golf in retirement?

JeffreyDJ

Yeah, its not the weight of the car that has been the "downer" in it all, its everything that has happened. Within the last six months we have heard NO NEWS to get us excited, but rather story after story that has killed all expectations we had.

Weight, hood, price, stripes, blower, etc. All of these things just make me question if SVT truly understands what they are doing anymore.

crazyhorse

Why are you guys hanging HTT when we don't have anything on the car yet but speculation. Go drive one, do or read the real life comparison tests and then come back and give HTT all the crap you want. This man and this car have not been proven guilty. You are all just speculating that the car won't be much better than the previous Cobra. Until we have numbers and seat time, I say your conviction is unjustified.

rhumb

While of course this is all speculation at this point, very few of the numbers, specs, reports and rumors seem to be very comforting at all. May us worriers be proven wrong, hopefully, and at least with the other Pony Cars on the horizon, we will have options.

JeffreyDJ

I don't disagree with this at all. But Ford needs to throw us a bone. if all we hear is bad news, what are we to expect?

They are the ones responsible for the expectations they've built. If they don't meet them, then they deserve what ever they get. I don't think anyone wants to hang them over this. Yet. Its more that it'd be nice to have a tiny sliver of good news mixed in SOMEWHERE.

At this point, I've seen nothing to justify a 5K price increase over the 04 Cobras. And yes, I realize that's a loaded statement, because they haven't released much yet. Oh wait, most everything we're upset about "is official" right down to the tacky plastic hood.

Lalo

The production Mustang was completed before the concept... the concept was created to raise interest in the upcoming Mustang.

I agree that we should wait to trash talk until after the car is released, and we see the final performance numbers.

1 COBRA

You're right, we shouldn't be doing that. My apologies.
We'll pick on his wife instead. eace:

max2000jp

I agree that we are relying on rumors, which have been accurate to this point. A near 4000lb coupe won't drive spectacular. It will have body roll and lumber thru the turns, with terminal understeer as the end result. Ford is relying on a big motor to try and hide the short-commings of this car. Ford could have went the "engineering" route and lightened the car a hundred or so pounds from the GT. The decreased weight would have improved handling and you wouldn't have needed such a powerful engine(not that I don't like powerful engines). You wouldn't have needed those expensive 14" brakes. We all know that price isn't a issue since the GT500 will cost 15-20K over an 05-06 GT. Ford really needs to learn a thing or two sadly from Chevy. Covette engineers have the right idea, why can't Ford's?

Back to Coletti: He was a man that understood modern performance cars. He was given a poor platform and look what he did with it. Coletti emphasized engineering and was in pursuit of a total performance package. Coletti stated that he wanted to mold SVT into Ford's own AMG/BMW M type brand. He wanted to produce a car that handled as well as it accelerated. HTT isn't doing this and IMO is counterproductive to his vision.

crazyhorse

I , too, would love to have all the info now. I've been waiting long enough. For some reason, however, Ford likes to have the drama of the car show. They have already shown more than they normally would. Remember the 2005 GT unveiling? They were very quiet on that one up until release day. We happened to get that dealer photo ahead, but, very little else was released. They said we won't be disappointed. We shall see in 27 days.

crazyhorse

That is my point, we don't know anything about this car yet. How do you know how it handles? part of the reason it is heavy is because they beefed up the frame and suspension to improve body roll.

If it didn't have that much horsepower, we would be complaining about that or that the brakes are too small. For $40k, something has to be sacrificed. The majority of the public focuses on HP and looks. Those are their first priorities. They balance the rest of the package between budget and performance to create a package that no other manuf. is currently offering.

IF Chrylser and GM bring out competition, then that can only help us get better Fords in the future. As the current generation Mustang evolves, you will see lighter parts, IRS, etc. get engineered into it to stay competitive with the others.

max2000jp

I know that in terms of handling, more weight is bad. This is simple engineering that traces back to race cars. All things equal a lighter car will handle better and will "feel" more nimble. The GT500 IMO won't offer great handling. It's simply too heavy and relys a ox-cart rear suspension.

My point earlier was that Ford could have decreased weight. The C6 Z06 weighs less than a standard C6. Chevy used engineering and advance composite materials in order to achieve a weight reduction. Chevy also added the LS7 with a dry sump oiling sytem. They also added 6 piston front brakes and 4 piston rears. I can go on and on. Guess what the price difference btwn a C6 and Z06 is???? 15-20K!!! See where I am going here? GM and Ford both increased the MSRP of both performance models almost exactly the same. I don't have internal figures, so I can't bring profit into this.

People whom buy GT500's or Z06's aren't the majority of the public. People that buy these types of cars are generally enthusiasts, whom know their stuff. High performance cars aren't for everyone. IMO Ford and HTT aren't taking into account that people whom buy these type of cars are descriminating buyers.

crazyhorse

I don't disagree with you. I would like to have a lighter weight car. I'm jsut saying let's wait.

The car is rumored to be about 230# heavier than the old Cobra. I bet it still way out handles it even with its ox-cart axle.

How is the handling on your GT?

1 COBRA

I did a comparisson two weeks ago on a X-way ramp which has a 270 degree right turn. The GT at 60 mph lost traction and almost went off the ramp to the left, the Cobra took the same turn at 70 mph without losing any traction. I estimate it could take that turn 5 - 10 miles faster without any problem.

RandyB

Interesting comparison.

LOL @ your customized user profile relative to recent events.

max2000jp

Compared to what??? I have driven a lot of cars . My opinion is a little harsh because of that. I used to race 125cc shifter karts as well. I haven't had a chance to drive my car on the track hard, so I cannot say how it handles under extreme conditions. My GT feels good on the street, but it needs less body roll and a lower center of gravity. The rear suspension feels unsettled if you encounter mid-corner bumps. I feel more confident pushing my dad's 545i in the turns than I do my GT. The tires and brakes also leave something to be desired. On a road course, the stock brakes would be toast after a few hard laps.

Remember, the SN95 Cobra isn't a great comparison. The SN95 had a wet noodle chassis with a tacked on IRS. Not really a apples to apples comparison.

rhumb

Interesting thought, one I certainly haven't considered. What are the red bow tie boys getting for their extra $15-20K vs what the blue oval folks are getting for theirs? I dare say, given the level of additional engineering that went into either car, that the bow tie boys are getting a LOT more bang for the buck. The Z06 is a FAR more thorough engineering upgrade over the base C6 than the rather conservative GT500 is over the base Stang GT. And Chevy's efforts far better addresses the full performance envelope whereas the GT500 seems to be contenting itself as a decent handling, straight-line quarter horse.



While the stoplight and drag racers will likely be well contented by a big-motored broad axe of a car the GT500 appears to be shaping up to be, this far more unidimensional approach to performance is, to my estimation, a distinct and sad departure from Coletti's more balanced, technically sophisticated efforts were, even with two hands and a foot tied behind his back with that ancient SN95 chassis. We seemed to get much more of an engineering upgrade for the money with the earlier Cobras than we'll be getting with the GT500's far steeper price premium.

Instead of Coletti's can do -- and did do -- attitude, now all we seem to get is a bunch of grey suit, bean counter mewling and whining about how everything will cost or weigh too much. And ironically, HTT and company thus didn't do nearly as much and alas, the GT500 is ending up far heavier and costlier than Coletti's far more ambitious products. :bang: