Cost, value and the GT500.
3/30/05, 04:49 PM
#22
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I think it's pointless to argue over rumors about a car that hasn't even been finalized yet, especially when it comes to price and content. Alot can change over the next 12 months.
3/30/05, 10:37 PM
#24
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Originally posted by 1979Cobra@March 30, 2005, 9:07 PM
HTT said the GT500 will be the king of the road and we won't have to pay the king ransom. Expect to pay $40K
HTT said the GT500 will be the king of the road and we won't have to pay the king ransom. Expect to pay $40K
But I think rhumb makes a valid point. I'll be honest, I never understood the premium of Cobras over GT up until the 99 makeover (with the introduction of IRS) and the Terminator Cobra (S/C and IRS). Because from 93 to 98 (and a certain extent, the 99's), the Cobra was nothing more than a decked out GT with the DOHC and round foglights.
But now, in my eyes, the Cobra has been de-contented with the deletion of IRS, and frankly, not worth the premium over a decked out GT.
In the end, we'll have to see what the final specs are, though the lack of IRS really makes it hard for me to see the value of this Cobra over the previous Cobra.
3/31/05, 07:17 AM
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From a Car Connection article <http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=8328&sid=184&n=157>:
We'll also have to wait for a formal pricing announcement, though SVT's new marketing director, George Ayres, hints the Cobra GT500 will come in "around $40,000," a bit above the old SVT Mustang' $35,000 sticker.
We'll also have to wait for a formal pricing announcement, though SVT's new marketing director, George Ayres, hints the Cobra GT500 will come in "around $40,000," a bit above the old SVT Mustang' $35,000 sticker.
3/31/05, 07:30 AM
#26
Were we in a basic economics class right now we would be seeing some D's and F's getting handed out. The new GT500 can justify it's pricetag wether it be 40k or 42k because demand warrants it.......and in the end that is how pricing is decided.
Look at the current M3. Has anyone in here never thought "50k+ is a LOT if money for what is essentially a 330hp coupe with Mac struts"? Why is it 50k+? Because the buying public obviously feels that the car is worth it and demands a sufficient quantity of the car at that price price level.
My take on this, the M3 drives like a 50k car regardless of what the specifics tell us so the pricetag is justified. Not everyone will agree, but enough do that the car has continued and will continue for some time now. I will wait to pass judgement on the GT500 until we have some understanding of how the car actually performas.
Look at the current M3. Has anyone in here never thought "50k+ is a LOT if money for what is essentially a 330hp coupe with Mac struts"? Why is it 50k+? Because the buying public obviously feels that the car is worth it and demands a sufficient quantity of the car at that price price level.
My take on this, the M3 drives like a 50k car regardless of what the specifics tell us so the pricetag is justified. Not everyone will agree, but enough do that the car has continued and will continue for some time now. I will wait to pass judgement on the GT500 until we have some understanding of how the car actually performas.
3/31/05, 07:55 AM
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Of course, supply and demand will be the ultimate determinate, though with actual (and likely unreveled to us outside Ford) costs are a factor certainly.
But in lieu of actually being privy to the true costs, we can only ascertain, imperfectly, from other Ford products similar in overall content, design and manufacturing complexity.
While such an analysis won't give us hard numbers per se, I do think they can indicate whether a lot of the cost is "additional manufacturer markup" beyond their actual hard cost of design, manufacturing, distribution and whatnot.
Ford is certainly free to ramp up the price to what the market might bear, just as dealers do with their loathed ADMs. But at our end, as the paying consumer, I'd like to provide some countervailing forces by trying, if imperfectly, to ascertain whether Ford would be hitting us with a huge price surcharge over their own costs and perhaps, tamp down that tendancy to rifle our wallets.
Demand, and the resultant price that can be charged, is a lot about perception, whether subjective or more objectively based. And certainly a large part of the demand for a car such as a GT500 is a purely subjective, "I've gotta have it at any price!" thing. I would just like to interject some more clear headed objective analysis as a possible counterbalance -- "Sure, great car, but how are they charging $40K for this when they only charged $35K for the just as complex (or more so) and comparably contented '03-'04 Cobras).
So while the subjective market aspects may well support a $40K price, IMHO, a more objective, if inferential, analysis seems to indicate a price somewhere south of $35K may be more in order. I, as a cash paying consumer, would certainly like to make the argument for the latter aspect a bit more strongly and perhaps, even if unlikely, get a <$35K GT500 pricing rather than simply swallow unblinkingly Ford's $40K price rumors.
While my analysis is certainly not perfect, and I'm certainly open to any well considered arguments, perhaps our atttentions and energies might better be directed towards Ford to make them more accountable for their pricing decisions regarding the GT500. Perhaps if we ask that question enough here, others, such as the press, might pick up on this too and pose these pricing concerns to Ford in a more public manner, one that may yield a price more in line with actual costs than bloated by marketing driven perceptions.
Apparently Ford has not yet made a final decision, so perhaps if they do detect that its Mustang enthusiasts, despite their obvious delight in the GT500 in general, are, nonetheless, going to hold them tight in regards to what price they might feel the can charge.
But in lieu of actually being privy to the true costs, we can only ascertain, imperfectly, from other Ford products similar in overall content, design and manufacturing complexity.
While such an analysis won't give us hard numbers per se, I do think they can indicate whether a lot of the cost is "additional manufacturer markup" beyond their actual hard cost of design, manufacturing, distribution and whatnot.
Ford is certainly free to ramp up the price to what the market might bear, just as dealers do with their loathed ADMs. But at our end, as the paying consumer, I'd like to provide some countervailing forces by trying, if imperfectly, to ascertain whether Ford would be hitting us with a huge price surcharge over their own costs and perhaps, tamp down that tendancy to rifle our wallets.
Demand, and the resultant price that can be charged, is a lot about perception, whether subjective or more objectively based. And certainly a large part of the demand for a car such as a GT500 is a purely subjective, "I've gotta have it at any price!" thing. I would just like to interject some more clear headed objective analysis as a possible counterbalance -- "Sure, great car, but how are they charging $40K for this when they only charged $35K for the just as complex (or more so) and comparably contented '03-'04 Cobras).
So while the subjective market aspects may well support a $40K price, IMHO, a more objective, if inferential, analysis seems to indicate a price somewhere south of $35K may be more in order. I, as a cash paying consumer, would certainly like to make the argument for the latter aspect a bit more strongly and perhaps, even if unlikely, get a <$35K GT500 pricing rather than simply swallow unblinkingly Ford's $40K price rumors.
While my analysis is certainly not perfect, and I'm certainly open to any well considered arguments, perhaps our atttentions and energies might better be directed towards Ford to make them more accountable for their pricing decisions regarding the GT500. Perhaps if we ask that question enough here, others, such as the press, might pick up on this too and pose these pricing concerns to Ford in a more public manner, one that may yield a price more in line with actual costs than bloated by marketing driven perceptions.
Apparently Ford has not yet made a final decision, so perhaps if they do detect that its Mustang enthusiasts, despite their obvious delight in the GT500 in general, are, nonetheless, going to hold them tight in regards to what price they might feel the can charge.
3/31/05, 08:11 AM
#28
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-5.4L supercharged twin-screw V8
-SRA setup that far exceeds the IRS of the SN95 Cobra. Also exceeds the SRA of the S197 GT, which in and of itself outperforms (for example) the Pontiac GTO's IRS.
-Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with funcitonal air extractors, and signature round fogs.
-New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D
-New rear rollpan
-Aluminum Ford GT heads (how can you say they don't cost that much more? They're purpose-built and specially designed for high-flow supercharged applications)
-New wheels
-Performance exhaust
-Extensive interior upgrade, wrapping the cockpit in leather and adding to the seats and doors.
-Different instrument panel
Didn't see you mention about half of those. And all this is stuff we know about, there are probably a couple surprises and/or changes left for us (wider tires probably, etc).
Now, you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to affect Ford's pricing point decisions before they're made. They will price it where they feel it needs to be, not considering previous premiums over the GT or anything like that, but where it falls in its class. This is a Corvette beater, an M3 destroyer ... the performance we're looking at for this car is far and away better than anything the '03 Cobras can do. The only way you can affect the price is ... not to buy it. Oh, and convince everyone else not to buy it. But then again, there are enough people like me who would consider anything under $40k to be a friggen STEAL, that I don't think you'll have any success there.
-SRA setup that far exceeds the IRS of the SN95 Cobra. Also exceeds the SRA of the S197 GT, which in and of itself outperforms (for example) the Pontiac GTO's IRS.
-Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with funcitonal air extractors, and signature round fogs.
-New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D
-New rear rollpan
-Aluminum Ford GT heads (how can you say they don't cost that much more? They're purpose-built and specially designed for high-flow supercharged applications)
-New wheels
-Performance exhaust
-Extensive interior upgrade, wrapping the cockpit in leather and adding to the seats and doors.
-Different instrument panel
Didn't see you mention about half of those. And all this is stuff we know about, there are probably a couple surprises and/or changes left for us (wider tires probably, etc).
Now, you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to affect Ford's pricing point decisions before they're made. They will price it where they feel it needs to be, not considering previous premiums over the GT or anything like that, but where it falls in its class. This is a Corvette beater, an M3 destroyer ... the performance we're looking at for this car is far and away better than anything the '03 Cobras can do. The only way you can affect the price is ... not to buy it. Oh, and convince everyone else not to buy it. But then again, there are enough people like me who would consider anything under $40k to be a friggen STEAL, that I don't think you'll have any success there.
3/31/05, 08:23 AM
#29
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Originally posted by matic@March 31, 2005, 9:14 AM
Now, you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to affect Ford's pricing point decisions before they're made. They will price it where they feel it needs to be, not considering previous premiums over the GT or anything like that, but where it falls in its class. This is a Corvette beater, an M3 destroyer ...
Now, you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to affect Ford's pricing point decisions before they're made. They will price it where they feel it needs to be, not considering previous premiums over the GT or anything like that, but where it falls in its class. This is a Corvette beater, an M3 destroyer ...
Whoa whoa....let's not pass the GT500 as a world beater just yet.
The Vette is still King of the Hill, and we don't know what the specs of the next gen M3 will be. And don't bring up Daytona, because BMW came back and spanked the Mustang in the second race.
Also, we still don't know what the production GT500 will feature. I remember when the Concept Mustang GT was touted as being 95% close to what the final production car. If the final GT500 was exactly like the concept, then it makes the 40K more palatable. But I still reserve judgement that without IRS, the car's not worth 40k.
3/31/05, 08:59 AM
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But then again, there are enough people like me who would consider anything under $40k to be a friggen STEAL, that I don't think you'll have any success there.
But seriously i dont think saying this car should be closer to $30K is very logical. It would take away sales from the Mustang GT, it would close the gap to another SE model (Boss, Mach1), and Ford wouldnt make a profit IMO.
I understand where RHUMB is coming from in holding Ford accountable because like the rest of us we dont want to see Ford Dealers marking up the price to make a bigger profit, but saying this car should be less than the 03/04 Cobra is ridiculous.
Again a car that probably puts out about 500HP for Under $40K is probably the best bang for your buck you've ever seen. HTT said their goal is to get the car Under $40K. THATS CRAZY PRICING FOR THAT CAR!! So to say that Ford should make it cheaper is the same as saying Ford doesnt deserve to make a profit off of their cars. :scratch:
But i do hope all of you can get one for the price that you want it for.
I cant afford one.................................yet. :bang:
3/31/05, 09:08 AM
#31
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Sure, the GT500 ought to be closer to $30k. And there was going to be a "V8 for less than $20k" in 2005. Yep.
I think just under $40k is the right price point for the car. At that price point there are plenty of cars to compete with, some will outhandle the GT500, but none will out-accelerate it. That has always been the trade-off with Mustangs. If you want a better "overall" car, pony up the extra $5k and get a C6. Some of us just like to go faaaaaast.
I think just under $40k is the right price point for the car. At that price point there are plenty of cars to compete with, some will outhandle the GT500, but none will out-accelerate it. That has always been the trade-off with Mustangs. If you want a better "overall" car, pony up the extra $5k and get a C6. Some of us just like to go faaaaaast.
3/31/05, 09:16 AM
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GT500 - 5.4L supercharged twin-screw V8
’04 Cobra – 4.6 supercharged roots V8 – aside from twin screw SC, same basic motor, parts count, systems and manufacturing complexity
GT500 - SRA setup that far exceeds the IRS of the SN95 Cobra. Also exceeds the SRA of the S197 GT, which in and of itself outperforms (for example) the Pontiac GTO's IRS.
’04 Cobra – Performance arguments aside, SRA is, by Ford’s own account, cheaper to make and thus sell, so this ought to drive the price down, not up.
GT500 - Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with functional air extractors, and signature round fogs.
’04 Cobra – Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with functional air extractors, and signature round fogs – seems to be a wash here, pricewise.
GT500 - New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D
’04 Cobra – New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D – another wash, pricewise.
GT500 - New rear rollpan
’04 Cobra – I presume you mean a new bumper and rear valance panel, as did the Cobra have too – another wash.
GT500 - Aluminum Ford GT heads (how can you say they don't cost that much more? They're purpose-built and specially designed for high-flow supercharged applications)
’04 Cobra – Cobra, too, had a specific version of Ford’s Mod motor 4V heads. I am not aware of anything intrinsic about the Ford GT heads that would make them significantly more expensive to manufacture such as titanium pieces, hand milled or Extrudehoned ports, etc. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears on the basis of the mechanical, material and manufacturing specs that there would only be minimal cost differentials with other Mod motor 4V heads.
GT500 - New wheels
’04 Cobra – New wheels
GT500 - Performance exhaust
’04 Cobra – Performance exhaust
GT500 - Extensive interior upgrade, wrapping the cockpit in leather and adding to the seats and doors.
’04 Cobra – Extensive interior upgrade. While not as much leather, the other upgrades were comparable in scale with the GT500 upgrades and they did a bit more with the seats, which on the GT500 are basically recovered stock Stang GT items with a little firmer bolster foam (same contours apparently).
GT500 - Different instrument panel
’04 Cobra – Different instrument panel, though they didn’t transplant the speedo and tach.
Again, my point is the overall scale, content and level of modifications above their base Mustang GT kin are quite comparable, which to my mind, ought to quite logically translate into a comparable price premium. While the GT500 may have put a bit more into the motor, they lost quite a bit in the suspension, which is basically a warmed over GT suspension along the lines of pre-’99 Cobras – very little extra cost here.
Of course, if you want to fork over $40K for a $34K car, please be my guest (what's that line about a fool and his money...?). And yes, the GT500 should be a great very fast, competent and entertaining car overall. And yes, you're probably right, with people uncritically fawning over the car, Ford will probably ask $40K for their $34K car and enough people will blithely roll over and pay it. But that seems more of a victory for Ford sales and marketing than Ford design and engineering (which seemed to deliver more product for the buck in earlier Cobras, perhaps we need Coletti back?)
’04 Cobra – 4.6 supercharged roots V8 – aside from twin screw SC, same basic motor, parts count, systems and manufacturing complexity
GT500 - SRA setup that far exceeds the IRS of the SN95 Cobra. Also exceeds the SRA of the S197 GT, which in and of itself outperforms (for example) the Pontiac GTO's IRS.
’04 Cobra – Performance arguments aside, SRA is, by Ford’s own account, cheaper to make and thus sell, so this ought to drive the price down, not up.
GT500 - Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with functional air extractors, and signature round fogs.
’04 Cobra – Entirely new front end, with an enlarged grill for better air intake, power bulge hood with functional air extractors, and signature round fogs – seems to be a wash here, pricewise.
GT500 - New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D
’04 Cobra – New spoiler (functional) that definitely required R&D – another wash, pricewise.
GT500 - New rear rollpan
’04 Cobra – I presume you mean a new bumper and rear valance panel, as did the Cobra have too – another wash.
GT500 - Aluminum Ford GT heads (how can you say they don't cost that much more? They're purpose-built and specially designed for high-flow supercharged applications)
’04 Cobra – Cobra, too, had a specific version of Ford’s Mod motor 4V heads. I am not aware of anything intrinsic about the Ford GT heads that would make them significantly more expensive to manufacture such as titanium pieces, hand milled or Extrudehoned ports, etc. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears on the basis of the mechanical, material and manufacturing specs that there would only be minimal cost differentials with other Mod motor 4V heads.
GT500 - New wheels
’04 Cobra – New wheels
GT500 - Performance exhaust
’04 Cobra – Performance exhaust
GT500 - Extensive interior upgrade, wrapping the cockpit in leather and adding to the seats and doors.
’04 Cobra – Extensive interior upgrade. While not as much leather, the other upgrades were comparable in scale with the GT500 upgrades and they did a bit more with the seats, which on the GT500 are basically recovered stock Stang GT items with a little firmer bolster foam (same contours apparently).
GT500 - Different instrument panel
’04 Cobra – Different instrument panel, though they didn’t transplant the speedo and tach.
Again, my point is the overall scale, content and level of modifications above their base Mustang GT kin are quite comparable, which to my mind, ought to quite logically translate into a comparable price premium. While the GT500 may have put a bit more into the motor, they lost quite a bit in the suspension, which is basically a warmed over GT suspension along the lines of pre-’99 Cobras – very little extra cost here.
Of course, if you want to fork over $40K for a $34K car, please be my guest (what's that line about a fool and his money...?). And yes, the GT500 should be a great very fast, competent and entertaining car overall. And yes, you're probably right, with people uncritically fawning over the car, Ford will probably ask $40K for their $34K car and enough people will blithely roll over and pay it. But that seems more of a victory for Ford sales and marketing than Ford design and engineering (which seemed to deliver more product for the buck in earlier Cobras, perhaps we need Coletti back?)
3/31/05, 02:17 PM
#33
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Rhumb,
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
3/31/05, 02:27 PM
#34
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The engine in the GT500 might even be slightly cheaper to produce, aside from the more expensive blower. Since '96 the Cobra has gotten a hand-built motor off the niche line. I don't see any SVT signature plate in pictures of the GT500 engine -- could it be that Ford is switching to a production line 5.4L?
3/31/05, 02:29 PM
#35
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Originally posted by S197Cobra@March 31, 2005, 3:30 PM
The engine in the GT500 might even be slightly cheaper to produce, aside from the more expensive blower. Since '96 the Cobra has gotten a hand-built motor off the niche line. I don't see any SVT signature plate in pictures of the GT500 engine -- could it be that Ford is switching to a production line 5.4L?
The engine in the GT500 might even be slightly cheaper to produce, aside from the more expensive blower. Since '96 the Cobra has gotten a hand-built motor off the niche line. I don't see any SVT signature plate in pictures of the GT500 engine -- could it be that Ford is switching to a production line 5.4L?
3/31/05, 02:31 PM
#36
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Originally posted by hosspony@March 31, 2005, 3:20 PM
Rhumb,
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
Rhumb,
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
I have driven 05 GT's on several occasions. You are correct, the 05 Mustang is the best Mustang Ford has ever produced. It is ridiculous to compare the 05 platform to previous generation. It's just as ridiculous as saying that IRS in the 2005 would stink because of people's experiences with the 99-03 Cobras.
By the same token, the 99-03 handled exponentially better than the 99-03 GT's. Just imagine how extraordinary it would be in the 05 platform. And while the SRA is acceptable in the GT, it's unacceptable in the GT500, especially considering it's price point and the fact that in the GT500 suspension is nothing more than a warmed over GT suspension.
You're last sentence sums up the whole problem. It's good enough...but I want it to be the best.
3/31/05, 02:59 PM
#37
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If you are comparing things from 5 years ago also factor in inflation. Plastic and metals have increased a huge amount in the past 2 years. And if you make a "widget" for the GT in the quantity of say 70,000 units a year but then make one for the Shelby, slightly varied, in say 7500 a year quantities the manufacturing cost and tooling is alot more. I am sure they are sticking in alot of "we can get it so pay it" money but still IF it really comes out at $40k its a deal IMO. Just my 2 cents...and Ill need them back to save for the Shelby
3/31/05, 03:14 PM
#38
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Originally posted by TomServo92+March 31, 2005, 1:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomServo92 @ March 31, 2005, 1:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-S197Cobra@March 31, 2005, 3:30 PM
The engine in the GT500 might even be slightly cheaper to produce, aside from the more expensive blower. Since '96 the Cobra has gotten a hand-built motor off the niche line. I don't see any SVT signature plate in pictures of the GT500 engine -- could it be that Ford is switching to a production line 5.4L?
The engine in the GT500 might even be slightly cheaper to produce, aside from the more expensive blower. Since '96 the Cobra has gotten a hand-built motor off the niche line. I don't see any SVT signature plate in pictures of the GT500 engine -- could it be that Ford is switching to a production line 5.4L?
[/b][/quote] Does the Lightning engine get built on the niche line?
Dave
3/31/05, 03:33 PM
#39
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Originally posted by Webba@March 31, 2005, 5:02 PM
If you are comparing things from 5 years ago also factor in inflation. Plastic and metals have increased a huge amount in the past 2 years. And if you make a "widget" for the GT in the quantity of say 70,000 units a year but then make one for the Shelby, slightly varied, in say 7500 a year quantities the manufacturing cost and tooling is alot more. I am sure they are sticking in alot of "we can get it so pay it" money but still IF it really comes out at $40k its a deal IMO. Just my 2 cents...and Ill need them back to save for the Shelby
If you are comparing things from 5 years ago also factor in inflation. Plastic and metals have increased a huge amount in the past 2 years. And if you make a "widget" for the GT in the quantity of say 70,000 units a year but then make one for the Shelby, slightly varied, in say 7500 a year quantities the manufacturing cost and tooling is alot more. I am sure they are sticking in alot of "we can get it so pay it" money but still IF it really comes out at $40k its a deal IMO. Just my 2 cents...and Ill need them back to save for the Shelby
Even with that consideration though, a $40K '07 SVT comes in at a whopping 51% over a slightly inflation adjusted GT price of $27K.
The next highest percentage difference I had was the '03 SVT at but 34% over that year's GT.
The lowest percentage difference was, ironically, an '01 IRS SVT over that year's GT at a mere 20% price premium. So much for an IRS system hugely jacking the price difference on its own.
3/31/05, 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Joes66Pony+March 31, 2005, 5:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Joes66Pony @ March 31, 2005, 5:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-hosspony@March 31, 2005, 3:20 PM
Rhumb,
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
Rhumb,
Have you even DRIVEN an 05' GT?
I own one. And I can tell you that this car is without question, the best Mustang Ford has EVER produced. I have a friend with an 03' Cobra, and I can run with him...not beat him, just stay close. To try and compare any previous model with the 05' platform is ridiculous. I would happily pay up to $40K if the car is what they say it is.
As far as the IRS debate...hang it up people...the car doesn't NEED it. The standard GT is absolutely awesome in that department. If you must have the IRS then buy a stinking Vette and be done with it. The vette HAS to have that suspension to handle up to par. The 05' Pony doesn't need the frills and added weight penalty. She's just plain GOOD the way she is!!
I have driven 05 GT's on several occasions. You are correct, the 05 Mustang is the best Mustang Ford has ever produced. It is ridiculous to compare the 05 platform to previous generation. It's just as ridiculous as saying that IRS in the 2005 would stink because of people's experiences with the 99-03 Cobras.
By the same token, the 99-03 handled exponentially better than the 99-03 GT's. Just imagine how extraordinary it would be in the 05 platform. And while the SRA is acceptable in the GT, it's unacceptable in the GT500, especially considering it's price point and the fact that in the GT500 suspension is nothing more than a warmed over GT suspension.
You're last sentence sums up the whole problem. It's good enough...but I want it to be the best.
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You will not get the "best" for under $40K. Period.
If you are expecting the "best" that's a pretty high mark to hit.
I think I mispoke before when I used the term "good"....
Perhaps I should have stated that the 05' is an excellent VALUE!!
And the shelby will be exactly the same...excellent value for the money.
