PaperTarget

Sounds like an RS Camaro :scratch:

Tone

I disagree. Performance can be defined by more than how fast a car can accelerate through a quarter mile. And a sporty appearance package that's not backed by anything is a great way for tarnishing the brand reputation of a performance car.

A car can be tuned to be enjoyable to the capable driver without having to be the fastest thing on the road. BMW built its entire reputation on cars that, frankly, weren't that fast in a straight line. A 2002 had a four cylinder motor with less than 150 hp, yet is was light, it handled well and it could cover ground a lot more quickly than its specs would suggest.

Certainly, a V6 Mustang could be set up to be quite a lively performer without outgunning the GT. The base V6 model is going to - by necessity - be comprimised to appeal to a wide variety of people who just want a nice, sporty looking car.

I don't know what the engine weight difference is for the 4.0 and the 4.6, but the smaller motor is often lighter. This gets some weight off the front end, making the smaller motored car potentially the better handler. I guess what I'm proposing is that with some supension tweaks and a few small other touches, Ford could create a nice performing, fun-to-drive car for those of us on a budget. Something I could buy with minimal options. I don't need a Mach anything sound system or leather or even power locks - I just want a lively motor, the suspension and brakes to put it to best use, a slick 5-speed all in a nice, clean-looking package. If I could get such a car for, say $4000 - $5000 less than a GT, I'd be very happy.

Create a car like that, and enthusiasts like me might develop a respect (heck, even a desire!) for a V6 Mustang. Make that happen and it can only improve the strength of the entire brand.

mkoesel

In this case I think its probably a wash because the V6 has an iron block while the V8 has an aluminum one.

The Duratec 35 on the other hand is all aluminum and would make a good candidate for a sporty V6 model.

bt4

While I agree there is a limited market for Mustang performance V6's. That's not to say there is not a performance market for V6's. In 98, the Porsche GT2 with twin turbos cracked 0-60 in a shade under 4 seconds. That's not slow.

Performance comes in different packages, depending on what you want and what you are willing to pay. V8 does not neccesarily mean performance. I-4 does not necssarily mean economy.

Any body have a GT they would race against a Zakspeed Group 5 Capri? The Division one cars (1976) were equipped with a 1.4 liter 4-cylinder. It produced over 470-hp. The 77 Division 2 Capri had a 1.7L turbo 4 that cranked 600-hp. They were not designed with economy and the Pinto in mind.

The SVO I-4 was a much different car than the GT, but popular in its own segment. There is a potential market for for a performance vehicle other than a V8 mustang (Porsche, Nissan, et al). Whether it is cost effective to pursue that market is another matter.

bison

Yep. The V6 Mustang is the ONLY affordable RWD car on the market. With a manual transmission and some suspension tuning, and descent tires (have I mentioned that those 215/65 tires really suck? Oh, I guess I have...) the Mustang could fill the niche vacated by BMW when they replaced the 2002 with the 320 a long time ago.

This wouldn't cost much to do, since it involves swapping in a few parts from the GT, and there are probably a few thousand people like myself would would be willing to pay for it. People who live life a quarter mile at a time don't get it, but some of the rest of us do. B)

crazyhorse

there is a vast aftermarket that will allow you to modify your V6s to do just that. Kenny Brown and Roush sell V6 perf parts. Kenny Brown is big into suspension and handling. He might even be able to provide an IRS for it. Check out his site.

bison

Too expensive. Ford could do it at the factory for a third of the cost.

I realize that there are people who love to mod their cars, and that's great, but it's not the same group who are looking for an inexpensive RWD V6 manual that handles like a BMW.

jarradasay

and isnt the GT supposed to have new suspension to handle better then the present IRS set up. So again that is the GT market like Coletti is saying. The present 3.8 engine weighs more then the 4.6 from what I understand because it has a cast iron block not aluminum. And did I not mention that Roush offers lower springs that vastly improved cornering capabilities. As for tarnishing the Brand image, I dont see it. the v6 is the economic alternative to the v8. If someone doesnt want the expense, power, liability of the V8 they choose the 6. They get the look, but not the performance. That is not to say they cannot add performance later, but again that is Coletti's point. The buyers of that market want to buy cheap and add on.
The Plain V6 is already only 5-7000 less then the GT so I'd say thats impossible. The purpose of the V6 is to be an inexpensive rwd sports car, and to give ford the marketing advantage of saying Mustangs starting under 20 grand..
What does that have to do with this discussion. We are not talking race cars, nor exotic sports cars. For some amount of money you can make anything fast. Heck, The subaru 2.5 H-4 STi just beat the 04SC cobra according to Hotrod magazine. But the car costs over 30grand. Doesnt connect well when talking about a v6 pacakage to fit btwn the v6 and GT.

I am not saying that a performance V6 would not have people that would buy it, but are there enough to buy it to justify the cost. or does ford just let Kenny Brown and Roush, etc take care of it. I really just dont see for trying to make a real performer out of the v6. They dont want it to be a 25000 dollar car.

bt4

I thought the discussion was about whether there was a market for a performance V6 Mustang?

My point was simple. V8=performance is not always true (for example my wife's F-150 Sport) and conversely V6=economy, (or I4) is not always true. Though, I confess to using some radical examples.

V8=performance, V6=economy just happens to be how the Mustang is marketed. I don't think with that mindset that Ford is in a position to offer a performance V6 Mustang.

There are performance oriented V6's, a market does exit for them. The Mustang is not one of them.

jarradasay

Ok I see where you are coming from. I agree there are performance 6s out there and agree that the mustang is and shouldnt be one of them. The market for performance 6s is out there, but the market for performance 6 mustang is probably too small. especially since it would end up probably around 25K. Sorry for my misunderstanging.

bison

This seems unlikely, since the GT (the entire car, not just the engine) weighs more than the V6 model. The GT manual transmission weighs more than the V6 manual, but that doesn't account for the entire weight difference - some of it must be in the engine.

crazyhorse

There are alot more parts in an engine than just the block. The extra pistons, rods, valves, larger cam, etc., etc., etc.

mkoesel

But the present 4.6 also has an iron block, so the V6 should be lighter, assuming the rest of the engine components are of similar weight.

jarradasay

If I understand right the Cobra has an iron block, but the gt still has aluminum. Right? Also the GT has bigger wheels, more tire, double the exhaust, larger rear end, Limited slip differential, more body pieces (scoops etc), fog lamps, more suspension, rear antisway bar, larger breaks. add this to the above mentioned tranny. The weight adds up. But I could be wrong about the engines. I swear I was told that the v6 engine weighed more. Ill see if I can find some numbers.

Tone

I wonder if some of this difference is the fact that I'm in Canada.

According to the Ford of Canada website, the current base V6 Coupe is $CDN23,495 while the GT Coupe is $CDN$31,795. For American readers -- our dollar is lower in value to yours, so the prices aren't quite as high as they might seem!

Anyway, that's a $8300 difference, which is fairly substantial.

If I was looking for a fun-to-drive, good handling car for about $25,000, the GT is still a bit of a reach and I suspect the normal V6 isn't going to meet my expectations in terms of performance as it needs to appeal to a wide range of people.

I could buy, for that money, a Mini Cooper or a loaded new Mazda 3 or if I could stretch a little ($CDN$27,595) maybe even an SVT Focus. Give me a V6 Mustang (it's already got more than 200 hp, which was a fair amount not to long ago!), tune it for the enthusiast and sell it for around $CDN25,000 and I'd take a serious look. It's a great looking car and doesn't need any spoilers or add-ons -- I'd be happy with a V6 model that simply drove as nice as it looks.

It sounds like perhaps you can deal a lot more in the US and that there is a less-contented GT model available for less. The F.O.C. website lists the GT as a "GT Deluxe 2Dr Coupe" which leads me to belive that other markets may get a base GT coupe for less. If that were the case here, I could undertand that a V6 sport model would probably be redundant.

Galaxie

Tone,

Us canadians don't have a GT Deluxe and premium like in the US. We basically have a well-optioned GT with 3-5 real options
1 - Auto
2 - Wheel upgrades
3 - Mach1000
4 - IUP

If you are lucky you will probably pick up a based-out v6 for about 26 on the road....

Boomer

you forgot
5 - leather/cloth

jarradasay

Yeah, Sorry. The Base GT is 24300 USD according to Fords website and the base V6 is 18775. A difference of only 5525 USD. As far as I know they have not announced the pricing of the new stang yet but I imagine the ratio will still be similar. I dont know exchange rates, but 4-5000 USD would all but buy the V8. That sucks that the GT is so much more expensive then the V6 for you guys. Can you not skip over the border and buy a US spec GT? But you are metric arent you. Dashes and everything are different right. A well modded V6 may not be a bad Idea.

Decipher

A Special V6 marketed as a Canadian special would rock. Add all sorts of winter options, performance/handling upgrades, and luxurious materials and I'd buy one no questions asked.

montreal ponies

You forgot about the logo on the dash that would read: " MUSTANG HEY"