the track is in maricopa ( just south of phoenix).

 

Fazm:
That's about 13 hours from Colorado Springs. It definitely sounds doable... I'm a bit worried about what the difference in atmosphere will do, though!

Screamin:
I'll be sure to post videos, pictures, etc... I'm not sure if you guys have seen my website, but computers are my main hobby. My site is getting more and more crazier as the months go by. Check it out: www.cabuzzi.com

I'm hoping the TT will be in Monday. I may install it Wednesday!

 

@Drumstyxs:

That's hilarious! I think the Space Shuttle, the Millenneum Falcon, and the Starship Enterprise are the only one's out there making that kind of HP! You must have too much time on your hands to even think of that.

Even if the calculator is slightly off, and it doesn't sound off by that much, I think re-working the heads and the lower engine is the better route to go. Sure, Super Six Motorsports is trying to sell their products, but so are Vortec and Procharger? Besides, I don't have to go to Atlanta to get someone to build an engine for me.

Boring and stroking to 4.3 liters, a perfectly square set-up, all blueprinted and balanced, ported and polished heads with bigger valves, a more aggressive cam, plus all the other bolt-ons you could easily do with the engine out would make one wise ride. It would beat V-8s and supercharged V-6s (unless they were running 14 lbs. of boost or more), and with new stainless and chro-moly parts it would last a lot longer too.

Blueprinting and balancing could also get you to 7,000-8,000 rpms before redline! With a lighter flywheel and a true racing clutch you would be a madman! Then add nitrous to an engine that's actually built to handle it? Fuh-get about it! For the 6Gs you probably would have to spend to buy a supercharger, and get it installed properly, you could build a good (second) racing engine to swap in-and-out of the car whenever you wanted. Are you kiddin' me? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif[/img]

I also thought the superchargers sounded great, but one cracked piston, or one blown head gasket, could destroy everything! Then you would be out the money and have a car with no working powerplant.

 

I agree that building up the engine is a good idea but it does end up costing alot more that a sc/tc setup due to high labor costs...another thing is that we have seen proven numbers on sc setups and soon we will see some for the turbo, once i see some hard facts on reworking the engine, then i might consider it.

Yes i know it is proven that it will work, but to what extent if im gunna drop upwards of 7500 for cams, a port and polish, and balancing, i need to see the numbers.

I think the difference in supersix selling of their product and other companies (procharger, powerhouse, vortech, and even zex) is that SS tells us that even boosting or squeezing a little will eventually break your engine. The others show us numbers...sure they may be rounded up alittle or alot in somecases but they show us numbers. SS does not, they market their products saying you should buy so your engine doesnt blow when you are blown or squeezin.

It has been proven through MSP's Belial's Screamin's and soon Rygen and Flapjack that these engines can handle a substatial amount of abuse. So based on SS pitch their is no use to buy their product until we actually see some HP/TQ numbers coming from em.

I have talked to Gash and he is planning on doing alot of engine work hopefully he can solve this deliemma for all of us.

I am not saying that you are wrong in saying this will help our engines life and add some power T-stang, I am just saying for me personally I would not buy into something with out knowing everything about that product. Kudos to you if you wanna be the first, but I think SS should throw us a bone here and tell us what they know!

 

The 4.0 liter V-6 is not a new engine. Ford truck buyers have been modding these for years. I have not seen these mods on a Mustang yet: most guys are still trying to pay their cars off let alone tearing down the engine! But I have done these mods to other cars and believe me they work! Forget SS if you want--any good high performance shop could do this stuff. Price will depend on the choices you make: you could start with a professionally built short-block and do the rest yourself!

Superchargers will wear down or break an engine over time if it is not properly built to handle that kind of stress! You can chime now, but in time--as we start to hear cracked piston and broken rod stories--you will see what I mean. I have seen well built street-track set-ups last 8-10 years when done right: it is worth looking into.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/starwars.gif[/img]

 

I do not doubt that it has been a proven application, but I want to see proof of the performance gains it will bring me before I decide to do anything. I trust you that their will be a gain but unlike the NOS and supercharges there are no real numbers only guesstimates. So until i am proven otherwise, I feel that the best bang for your buck is to squeeze or be blown. And if the engine breaksdown so be it....then it will be a real reason to buildup the engine. Still until I see either people breaking stuff with their power adder application or some solid numbers on NA engine work, I will not be swayed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DrumStyxs10 @ February 10, 2006, 11:00 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I do not doubt that it has been a proven application, but I want to see proof of the performance gains it will bring me before I decide to do anything. I trust you that their will be a gain but unlike the NOS and supercharges there are no real numbers only guesstimates. So until i am proven otherwise, I feel that the best bang for your buck is to squeeze or be blown. And if the engine breaksdown so be it....then it will be a real reason to buildup the engine. Still until I see either people breaking stuff with their power adder application or some solid numbers on NA engine work, I will not be swayed.
[/b][/quote]


+1
Those are my thoughts exactly!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ06 @ February 10, 2006, 12:05 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
+1
Those are my thoughts excatly!!!
[/b][/quote]


+2

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ06 @ February 10, 2006, 11:05 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
+1
Those are my thoughts exactly!!!
[/b][/quote]

I would like to add to my above quote I agree exactly with in reason and that being I will not exceed a 9psi pulley or 360HP, like to be in 340-360 RWHP range S/C plus a few bolt ons( the 350-360RWHP range if possible would be nice) and 360RWHP tops. Now I wouldn't rule out if my car has the capability to push over 360RWHP (pulley Etc) if the need should arise for maybe just a run or two only at the track given a good enough reason.


I say 360RWHP tops because IMO I believe its not only psi that adversely affects the bottom end but that higher power (HP) you make has a similar effect. I believe 375- 400HP IMO is pushing it with a stock bottom end even if you could do it on 9psi.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ06 @ February 10, 2006, 9:29 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I would like to add to my above quote I agree exactly with in reason and that being I will not exceed a 9psi pulley or 360HP, like to be in 340-360 RWHP range S/C plus a few bolt ons( the 350-360RWHP range if possible would be nice) and 360RWHP tops. Now I wouldn't rule out if my car has the capability to push over 360RWHP (pulley Etc) if the need should arise for maybe just a run or two only at the track given a good enough reason.
I say 360RWHP tops because IMO I believe its not only psi that adversely affects the bottom end but that higher power (HP) you make has a similar effect. I believe 375- 400HP IMO is pushing it with a stock bottom end even if you could do it on 9psi.
[/b][/quote]


I feel the same way TJ06! I like the 360RWHP area for a dailey driver.. To me, thats should be everyones goal.. Thats effectively 414HP @ the Flywheel and something on the order of 425Ft Lbs of Torque at the flywheel..

Can you just imagine the Ford commercial!

The all new Ford Mustang SVT! This new Ford creation comes standard with a Supercharged 4.0 Liter Engine.. It packs a whopping 414HP and 425ft Lbs. of Torque! coupled to a Tremec 6spd transmission, the all new Mustang gets to 0-60 in just under 4 sec! This car takes its cues from the original Mustang SVO, but this one is on steroids!

Ask your local Ford dealers for Details!!... Then Fear Factor comes back on, with chicks eating goat *****!! LOL! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

 

@MSP:

Isn't that the new Shelby?

@The rest:

No offense guys, really, but the indifference you are showing towards the idea of building a legitimate racing engine, vs. just bolting-on a supercharger, genuinely surprises me! I am left to conclude that you must really have little or no experience with serious engine building--don't feel slighted by that, how many people really do?

How should I defend what 40-50 years of proven racing technology has already proven again and again: increased displacement, engine balancing, and headwork equals big, reliable horsepower! You want proof, go to a drag strip and watch some good amatuer and amatuer bracket races. See what they are running, what wins, and what lasts. Superchargers and nitrous are not new--and by the way, I included nitrous in my idea for a new engine--but if the lower end isn't built to run them you will have problems! The big boys make over 1,000 HP by combining a quality-built racing engine with stage II superchargers and nitrous.

I must also ask, just how "proven" are these new supercharger units for the V-6? They have been out for just a few months and we have heard from two guys who have had them in for just a month or so. Am I really being overly pessimistic about this?

You guys do sound like a commercial: all you need is a V-6 and a $4,000 supercharger and you too can be a racing champion! Come on, do you really think it's going to be that easy. By the way, I was never very good at math, perhaps you could help me. What's cheaper: a $4-6,000 racing engine (plus install), or a $4,300 supercharger (plus install--think about it, you wanna try putting that bad boy in yourself?) plus a new engine to replace the old one when it burns up in just a few years (plus the install for that as well)?

Having said all of that, I shall digress. I was not trying to tell anyone what to do. If you truly care not for my sage wisdom and advice, then I shall humbly withdraw. I openly invite any and all of you to bolt-on any $4,300 dollar device your little heart desires (do it yourself it will be even more fun that way)! You all have my blessing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yup.gif[/img]

 

For one, I do plan on installing the SC. I would not dream of doing the engine work myself, though.

Money saved.

If I blow the engine, it'd be no different than if I had upgraded it in the first place! What am I gonna do, sell my stock internals on Ebay to offset the cost? Nope. Not for much, at least.

So... I'm at $3809 for the S/C, assuming I can install it myself. Should I blow the engine, I'd of course spend the $4000+ to get the beefier stuff from a place like supersix, which would put me at 7809+ for daring to run boost without beefing up the bottom end first.

Now, say I drop $4000+ on the engine work from the get-go. Who knows what gains it'll yield. QUite possibly not as much as with an S/C....

Going with the S/C first is not a bad choice. You certainly can't guarantee I'd get as much as with the S/C.... and you certainly can't be sure the S/C will damage the stock engine in the first place! If it does, I'll have the benefits of both HP gains for the same price had I chosen to go with the engine work first.... because I'm sure whatever that work would gain, it would not be enough for me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T-stang @ February 11, 2006, 12:21 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@MSP:

Isn't that the new Shelby?

@The rest:

No offense guys, really, but the indifference you are showing towards the idea of building a legitimate racing engine, vs. just bolting-on a supercharger, genuinely surprises me! I am left to conclude that you must really have little or no experience with serious engine building--don't feel insulted by that, how many people really do?

How should I defend what 40-50 years of proven racing technology has already proven again and again: increased displacement, balancing, and headwork equals big, reliable horsepower! You want proof, go to a drag strip and watch some good amatuer and amatuer bracket races. See what they are running, what wins, and what lasts. Superchargers and nitrous are not new--and by the way, I included nitrous in my idea for a new engine--but if the lower end isn't built to run them you will have problems! The big boys make over 1,000 HP by combining a quality-built racing engine with stage II superchargers and nitrous.

I must also ask, just how "proven" are these new supercharger units for the V-6? They have been out for just a few months and we have heard from two guys who have had them in for just a month or so. Am I really being overly pessimistic about this?

You guys do sound like a commercial: all you need is a V-6 and a $4,000 supercharger and you too can be a racing champion! Come on, do you really think it's going to be that easy. By the way, I was never very good at math, perhaps you could help me. What's cheaper: a $4-6,000 racing engine (plus install), or a $4,300 supercharger (plus install--think about it, you wanna try putting that guy in yourself?) plus a new engine to replace the old one when it burns up in just a few years (plus the install for that as well)?

Having said all of that, I shall digress. I was not trying to tell anyone what to do. If you truly care not for my sage wisdom and advice, then I shall humbly withdraw. I openly invite any and all of you to bolt-on any $4,300 dollar device your little heart desires (do it yourself it will be even more fun that way)! You all have my blessing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yup.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Thanks for your seasoned approach to wisdom T-Stang... None of us here profess to want to be champions.. Rather just sticking together as a group to enjoy our new Mustangs with a slightly different twist than our old ones.. As you know, most every one of the V6 guys here have all owned the V8 Stangs in the past.. For reasons only known to each individual, we opted for the V6 this time around.. Not because the V8 didnt invite a certain degree of passion to us, at first glance.. It is more of an excersize in ones pure faith in the Mustang.. What is a Mustang, and how is it best appreciated.. Sure one could conclude that the absolute only way to envelope oneself in the overwhelming sense of pure testosterone drivin excitement that is Mustang is no doubt going to have to involve 8 cylinders.. However, this new SOHC 4.0 V6 has presented us with somewhat of a challenge. Many of us recognized it instantly.. To our surprize, we were all completely on the right track thus far.. Keeping in mind the cars are generally still new, it is apparent to me, that with a few more seasoned years under its belt, the new V6's could maybe find their way into the hearts and minds of all Mustang owners.. In that path, which is frought with distastefull comments, condescending remarks, and a pure lack of understanding from a wide portion of the Mustangs faithfull, a few brave individuals dare to even try and do something different.. Outcast, from the general pupulation, and are subject to attacks that on its face seem like valuable input, but at its heart is a pure slash with a machete at the juggler of some would be V6 enthusiast..

However, here at The Mustang Source, you find yourself blessed to be among some of the strongest willed, and determined 05+ V6 Mustang owners in the world.. We are a small handfull of the total population with hearts and minds set on removing the sterotypes associated with the V6.. We dont want our cars to be champions in the NHRA.. We want them to be champions to us.. You must understand that we could careless how the vast majority of Mustang owners view us, its more like how we will view them.. Thats going to be in our rear-view mirrors..

So while your opinions and assistance to getting more power made reliably is not new to us, we appreciate the time you take to spend with us! Your always welcome! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

Well said MSP...just took my 6 banger to the track tonight and pulled off 15.5 on my first attempt...Pretty satisfired for a late reaction time and my automatic....i love the idea of building up this 4.0L. it's such a great challenge to me and excites me at all times....I really wanna go with a supercharger or a procharger...I hear Fazm's got some ideas up his sleeves on the terms of psi so i would like to see what that brings to us...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T-stang @ February 11, 2006, 4:25 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@MSP:

Isn't that the new Shelby?

@The rest:

No offense guys, really, but the indifference you are showing towards the idea of building a legitimate racing engine, vs. just bolting-on a supercharger, genuinely surprises me! I am left to conclude that you must really have little or no experience with serious engine building--don't feel slighted by that, how many people really do?

How should I defend what 40-50 years of proven racing technology has already proven again and again: increased displacement, engine balancing, and headwork equals big, reliable horsepower! You want proof, go to a drag strip and watch some good amatuer and amatuer bracket races. See what they are running, what wins, and what lasts. Superchargers and nitrous are not new--and by the way, I included nitrous in my idea for a new engine--but if the lower end isn't built to run them you will have problems! The big boys make over 1,000 HP by combining a quality-built racing engine with stage II superchargers and nitrous.

I must also ask, just how "proven" are these new supercharger units for the V-6? They have been out for just a few months and we have heard from two guys who have had them in for just a month or so. Am I really being overly pessimistic about this?

You guys do sound like a commercial: all you need is a V-6 and a $4,000 supercharger and you too can be a racing champion! Come on, do you really think it's going to be that easy. By the way, I was never very good at math, perhaps you could help me. What's cheaper: a $4-6,000 racing engine (plus install), or a $4,300 supercharger (plus install--think about it, you wanna try putting that bad boy in yourself?) plus a new engine to replace the old one when it burns up in just a few years (plus the install for that as well)?

Having said all of that, I shall digress. I was not trying to tell anyone what to do. If you truly care not for my sage wisdom and advice, then I shall humbly withdraw. I openly invite any and all of you to bolt-on any $4,300 dollar device your little heart desires (do it yourself it will be even more fun that way)! You all have my blessing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yup.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Most people don't want to rip out a brand new engine on a brand new car, you'd have to be pretty hardcore to do that. The S/C, T/C and nitrous systems will be just fine for our cars as long as we don't go nuts with them. They will shorten the engine life, no question. But as long as we keep the boost levels sane and don't spend every weekend at the track I think we'll be just fine. I do think MSP is pushing a little too hard with his Vortech but it's his engine and his money. I wish him the best. I'm not downing MSP, I'd just hate to see anything bad happen to him.
If I did decide to rip my engine out, I wouldn't bother building up a 4.0. I'd get Boss330 to build me a V8 mod motor. Nothing against V6s, but if I got that serious it really wouldn't make much sense to start out with a smaller motor. And believe me, it has crossed my mind.

 

@Flapjack and BlackLX:

Point of order: my OP on this thread was about building a second racing engine I could swap in and out of my car for close to the same price as a SC. Over the long-term, a stage I or stage II supercharger could even be added to the racing enging to give me several track and street running options. I live in California where emission controls are so strict that having a second dedicated performance engine really makes some sense. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/box2.gif[/img]

@Acstone:

Please don't get upset, but my old Honda Civic ran low 15's with just a few mods. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]

@MSP:

Your "song of the Mustang V-6 owner" was truly touching (no kidding), and I thank you for inviting me me to continue visiting this forum. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif[/img] Please note, I am not one of those V-8 owners who have been slamming your SC "just because." Personally I would have loved to see you at least beef-up and balance your bottom end before adding the SC, but what can I say: it's your car and your $$$! Suffice it to say that we have chosen different paths.

Your "little engine that could" philosophy is not really new however: it is very reminiscent of the old "small block" vs. "big block" battles back in the day (one that any long-time mustang owner should truly relate to). The answer back then was not supercharging, and I do not believe it is the answer now either, unless it is done properly. But once again, I digress: you all have my blessing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T-stang @ February 11, 2006, 4:57 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@Flapjack and BlackLX:

Point of order: my OP on this thread was about building a second racing engine I could swap in and out of my car for close to the same price as a SC. Over the long-term, a stage I or stage II supercharger could even be added to the racing enging to give me several track and street running options. I live in California where emission controls are so strict that having a second dedicated performance engine really makes some sense. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/box2.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

I doubt that would make much sense to anyone else. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] Swapping engines every weekend would be no easy task. Even if you had your own performance shop that would get old REAL quick. For 99.99999999% of us, our Mustangs are our daily drivers. We want something that would give us performance whenever we want it plus get us back and forth to work every day. Nitrous makes plenty of sense, it doesn't affect day to day driving but gives you that extra boost at the track. You can use it on the street but most of us don't. SC and TC make sense too, that power is always there but you don't have to use it. The big thing is to not go crazy with it. Too much boost or too much juice will kill these motors for sure.

 

@BlackLX:

Once again, my original idea (posted on this thread) included nitrous on an engine that was built to handle it. Engine would not be swapped every week: California emissions are only checked once every-two years. Changing engine out for Summer/Winter weather makes more sense. Second engine may seem superflous, but my point was you could almost do it for the same money as a SC and save worries about future engine failure.

@The rest:

I have just got off the phone with a good long-time friend of mine who owns several Mustangs ranging from '68 to a '94 SVT Cobra. He agrees with me and points out that Ford's newer pistons are made from inferior quality materials and then hardened in a "powder treating" process. Combined with loose tolerances, they simply will not hold up to high temperatures or high HP in the long run (i.e., they sell these puppies for under $20k for a reason). He recommends running no more than 4lbs. of boost in order to prolong the engine's life. That would limit the huge HP gains you are hoping for. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stupid.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T-stang @ February 11, 2006, 2:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
@BlackLX:

Once again, my original idea (posted on this thread) included nitrous on an engine that was built to handle it. Engine would not be swapped every week: California emissions are only checked once every-two years. Changing engine out for Summer/Winter weather makes more sense. Second engine may seem superflous, but my point was you could almost do it for the same money as a SC and save worries about future engine failure.

@The rest:

I have just got off the phone with a good long-time friend of mine who owns several Mustangs ranging from '68 to a '94 SVT Cobra. He agrees with me and points out that Ford's newer pistons are made from inferior quality materials and then hardened in a "powder treating" process. Combined with loose tolerances, they simply will not hold up to high temperatures or high HP in the long run (i.e., they sell these puppies for under $20k for a reason). He recommends running no more than 4lbs. of boost in order to prolong the engine's life. That would limit the huge HP gains you are hoping for. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stupid.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

I believe your friend was refering to the GT... However, he could be right in regards to the SOHC 4.0 as well.. 12psi is all I am going to do.. Trust me, its not like I run around town at 10psi all day.. In a normal day of driving throughout the week, I may not even exceed 5psi of boost.. Its simply just too fast in the amount of traffic here in california..

I also think that when drivin properly 12psi on a daily driver should not present any problems longterm.. Again the argument somewhat indicates a need to actually see the needle hit 12psi on a daily basis.. For me this is not the case.. In fact, if not for me being pushed and provoked about getting an ET, I wouldnt even concern myself with that.. I am the type of person that just likes to know its there, just in case...

However, my whole point to all of this is to see how far it can go.. Now I have set my initial goal to the 400FWHP area.. Thats enough for me.. Owning a 400HP Supercharged V6 Mustang is quite enough for a 35 year old man, who could care less about going to a local track to get beat by some nasty GT's and Cobra's, and perhaps a light weight blown ricer.. LOL!! No thanks..

However, since I have been provoked, and promises have been made, I will make one or two appearances when I feel the car is ready.. Lets put it this way, this summer I plan on hitting the track once or twice, and thats it.. I have kids, and really dont have enough time to steal myself from them to go to a track to risk blowing something up..

So, yes I admit that I am into this thing for one or two good track runs this summer.. Now, if I should make a third appearance, it will be because I added some type of devices to help my launch stick alittle better.. After that, its smooth sailin for the Windveil Blue 2005 V6 Supercharged Mustang.. I will spend my time helping others.. As you can tell, thats really what I like to do, is to help others.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>T- stang
@The rest:

I have just got off the phone with a good long-time friend of mine who owns several Mustangs ranging from '68 to a '94 SVT Cobra. He agrees with me and points out that Ford's newer pistons are made from inferior quality materials and then hardened in a "powder treating" process. Combined with loose tolerances, they simply will not hold up to high temperatures or high HP in the long run (i.e., they sell these puppies for under $20k for a reason). He recommends running no more than 4lbs. of boost in order to prolong the engine's life. That would limit the huge HP gains you are hoping for. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stupid.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]


T-Stang I have read some of your post above you do not have a lot of knowledge about this 4.0. but seem to like to give advice that is not accurate.

The 4.0 have been running supercharged @ 6psi for years by XX and it seems to handle 6psi pretty good, you have very limited knowledge on this 4.0 even when you talk about building it N/A you are limited in your knowledge on the 4.0. Example you talk about stroking this engine and running 8K RPM range won't happen because of the internal design of this engine because it has shafts and chains that turn camshafts they can't take 8000 K.


Running supercharged 6psi seems like a non issue with this 4.0 which has already been proven by XX so you and your friend are incorrect and yes we have know about the piston's being a weak link for running 12psi for a long time nothing new. This engine has shown it can run S/C @ 6psi and now we will see if 9psi is possible.

No offense meant to you.

Have a nice day

TJ