GaryD9

First, I'm not very mechanically inclined. That being said, I'm trying to better understand the type of differential we have on our V6's. Reading some threads here, I'm starting to get the impression that there's only one wheel on the car (right) that ever gets any power unless a tlok is installed... This doesn't make sense for many reasons...

I always thought that an open differential meant that both wheels got torque, but in cases where only a single wheel had traction, the torque wouldn't be enough to bring movement to the car overall. (Equal torque, different rotational speeds with no limit on the diff.)

My primary purpose in asking isn't so much for performance, but in preparing for driving through my parking lot which usually spends a few days each winter covered with a nice sheet of ice... If it's an open differential (both get power) then the car's traction control _should_ allow safe (if somewhat slow and extremely annoying) navigation. The traction control should brake the wheel with no traction, forcing the differential to offset the power to the other wheel that does have traction...

Of course, I could be complete off base without a clue what I'm talking about - in which case I hope that someone could take a few moments to get me somewhat up to speed.

(I grew up and lived a total of 31 years in Florida - no ice - and any car I owned was FWD. 5 years after moving to Maryland I decide to get the rear wheel drive... I keep telling my wife that it couldn't possibly be a mid-life thing - afterall, its not the GT500... yet...)

F150ATM

My last car was a Camaro RS. It came from the factory with an open diff. I never ever had any winter driving problems with it, until I "upgraded" it to and LSD. After that, it became a POS in the winter (and I didn't really feel any benifit in the summer either).

Here's the deal:
In the winter, with an open diff, only one wheel spins. This while not giving much forward momentum, keeps you going forward.
With an LSD, both rear wheels spin at the same tine. This causes the rear of your car to go all over the place sideways, while providing no more, if not less forward momentum than an open diff.

If you have an big HP, bit torque car that you want to drag race on a dry track, LSD will give you a bennifit. In the real world, daily driver, I'll take an open diff any time.


That's my 2cents.

PS. The best traction control in snow is BEER!.
Yup, go to your local beer store and buy as much BEER as you can afford. Put it in your trunk. Take it out 6 cans at a time and put in in your fridge. The weight of the BEER over your rear wheels will give you incredible traction. Try it... it works

GaryD9

Not sure this would help me. I'd take 6 cans out, and put them in the fridge. Being they are already cold (from winter), I'd feel compelled to drink them. Then, as I've already had 6 beers, I wouldn't allow myself to drive, so would invite some friends over to watch a game or something. They'd want some of the winter chilled beer as well. It wouldn't take long to drink away a trunk full of beer.

Wouldn't sand bags work better? Perhaps a pair of 50 pound bags in the trunk, one behind each wheel well?

I-70 west

QUOTE
Here's the deal:
In the winter, with an open diff, only one wheel spins. This while not giving much forward momentum, keeps you going forward.
With an LSD, both rear wheels spin at the same tine. This causes the rear of your car to go all over the place sideways, while providing no more, if not less forward momentum than an open diff.

Winter driving:
The point being with a T-Lok is if your rears are spinning let off the gas. and regain traction letting both wheels pull you not one. If your spinning your wheels your defeating the purpose.

I go up hills where a lot of others are at the side of the road.

DarkSpoon

ive never driven in snow/ice as i live in south east Texas but ive driven through plenty of dirt/clay roads after a big rain and i know you aren't supposed to stay on the gas when you lose traction. let off the gas a bit and let the wheels grip again. thats how ive always avoided hydroplaining and getting stuck. i-70's method sounds like what i do.

F150ATM

Winter driving:
The point being with a T-Lok is if your rears are spinning let off the gas. and regain traction letting both wheels pull you not one. If your spinning your wheels your defeating the purpose.

I go up hills where a lot of others are at the side of the road.

I understand that.
My point is as soon as you loose traction with LSD, you go all squirlly. Without it, you're still going straight, while you try to regain traction, by taking your right foot out of it...

Having had both, in the same car, I can honestly say poor weather traction is better with an open diff.


Mike

Novelty goat

Power is sent to both wheels no matter open or tlok. The difference is when a wheel loses traction with an open diff, then all the power goes to that wheel, rendering you essentially one wheel drive. If you know how to drive you are better with a tlok or similar, just learn how to control your vehicle as the presence of both wheels spinning can indeed swing you around. Open diff is better for younger drivers or women.

I-70 west

"Open diff is better for younger drivers or women."



"Having had both, in the same car, I can honestly say poor weather traction is better with an open diff."

To each his own I guess,
I wouldn`t want a rear wheel drive vehicle with out it under any condition.

Cheers

Little Black Pony

From experience driving my V6 in snow. I can say that when you loose traction with an open diff you will consistently slide to the right. This is preferable if you always want to know which way your rear-end will slide. The bad side is that you only have one rear wheel providing traction. With a Mustang T-Lok/LSD the wheel that isn't slipping will still have traction to get you moving forward. So, having two rear wheels that can provided traction is better.

Open Diff
The conventional differential transmits power though a set of spider and side gears to the axle shafts. Power is normally equal to both shafts. But, if one wheel slips, the other wheel receives very little power. This differential is fitted as standard equipment on most vehicles.

T-lok/LSD
While similar to conventional differentials, limited slip type differentials add a friction medium to the assembly to maintain equal power to both axles even if one tire begins to slip. When load is applied to the differential, the friction plates are also loaded, causing a good positive power flow to both tires.

GaryD9

What this sounds like to me is that when one wheel is spinning in excess of the other, the differential applies additional friction to the excessively spinning wheel (which simulates traction resistance.) That would increase the power needed to make either wheel spin - so the entire system gets more power.

In practice, is it much different if the disc brake on ONLY the excessively spinning wheel is applied electronically? This is what the "electronic traction control" does.

Beyond the stereotypes of "traction control is for wusses" and "real men need TLoks" (which sounds better than 'real men need LSD'), I'm trying to understand what's actually going on inside, and if the net results are similar with different systems....

We got a nice few inches of snow today, and I was really looking forward to playing with the new Mustang in it. Unfortunatly (I guess), the car handled the slippery roads (and recovery from them) about the same as any previous FWD I've had would have done. I left TCS turned on, and the only time (other than hard accel from a stop) that it kicked in, it was obvious that I'd have been sliding all over the place if it hadn't. (Oddly, I think I prefer the RWD with TCS over a FWD with or without it.)

I should have run over to my ford dealership to "test drive" a GT tonight... it would have been fun to compare ice driving with a LSD.

theedge67

On an open diff. when one wheel slips, the other wheel does not get much if any power. If you apply resistance to the spinning wheel, such as a brake, the other wheel will have to get some power. The problem with this is the way the Mustang Traction Control works. It not only applies the brakes, it also cuts engine power. So, you get traction along with no engine power.

An old trick I learned in my previous Mustang (89 4cyl) was to apply the e-brake if you start losing traction. That slows the spinning wheel and evens out the power to both wheels.

Five Oh Brian

With an open diff, if you are in snow and traction is different on either side of the car (maybe a little sand under the snow on one side vs pavement under the other), then the tire with the least traction will spin, leaving the tire that could have moved you powerless and sitting still as a lame duck. This makes an open diff far inferior in winter driving. Even with traction control - as theedge67 mentioned - you lose engine power first, then brakes are applied after that, essentially rendering you motionless.

Advice for open diff winter driving: turn off t/c! work the throttle very sensitively to prevent any tire spin at all.

Advice for limited slip winter driving: t/c optional (I prefer it turned off as I have 25 years driving experience with limited silps) and know how to steer your car with the front AND REAR tires when traction is compromised.