V6 driveshaft
1/17/06, 03:11 PM
#1
Shelby GT350 Member
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http://www.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?...73&postcount=34
Good news! That's one of the things I was worried about when I turn up the wick on the NOS(and I plan to!).
The stock v6 shaft appears to be less threatening than the v8.
We could get one done if someone wanted one, but as to date, the stock v6 shaft seems to be holding up very well.
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Mike Bowen
www.PowerHouse411.com
PowerHouse Automotive, LLC
Girard PA, 814 774 4966
We could get one done if someone wanted one, but as to date, the stock v6 shaft seems to be holding up very well.
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Mike Bowen
www.PowerHouse411.com
PowerHouse Automotive, LLC
Girard PA, 814 774 4966
1/17/06, 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Jimp@January 17, 2006, 2:14 PM
http://www.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?...73&postcount=34
Good news! That's one of the things I was worried about when I turn up the wick on the NOS(and I plan to!).
http://www.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?...73&postcount=34
Good news! That's one of the things I was worried about when I turn up the wick on the NOS(and I plan to!).
I went to a driveline shop yesterday, and got it all set up for us... This will be an Aluminum driveshaft for $385...
I will use my driveshaft for the initial build.. This way, I will have a contact for those who would like to mail order an aluminum driveshaft..
I am more concerned with gaining more HP by losing the mass of the stock V6 driveshaft..
For us over here, this problem is solved... I feel $385 complete for an aluminum driveshaft is good..
So dont worry about this issue Jimp, when I am done, you will be able to call on the phone an order an aluminum driveshaft for a 2005-06 V6 5Spd Mustang..
These measurements will be different for the automatic.. So at some point I will have to coordinate an 05 V6 Automatic tranny build...
I am thinking this mod will be good for atleast 15HP+ along with 1 to 3MPH in ET trap speed, using a stock cars performance as a baseline..
Crucial to this will be the dyno work to backup the philosophy.. So I understand that once the driveline is completed, I will need a dyno to show the benefits..
Now of course, any of you can also find a local driveline shop to build you an aluminum driveshaft.. So this is really not a hard problem to overcome... Driveline shops are found in pretty much every city in America.. LOL
1/18/06, 01:10 PM
#3
Bullitt Member
Hi MSP,
An Aluminum Driveline is good for the following two reasons:
1.) A lighter rotating mass, which means that any imbalance won't translate as badly into vibration (the percentage of driveline mass imbalance being equal).
2.) A very slight reduction in overall rotating mass, which means that it can be accelerated more quickly. I seriously doubt that you could measure this improvement, as it will be slight when compared to other rotating masses of your vehicle. Your four rims and tires are a far bigger factor here.
The assumption that you will gain horsepower is totally false. If you were to gain 15 horsepower from a new driveline, that would mean that your old driveline is absorbing 15 horsepower now. From a heat perspective:
15 hp * 745 watts/hp = 11,200 watts.
This would get your driveline somewhere near the temperature of a meteor on reentry.
If you have driveline shakes, go ahead. Otherwise, save your money.
Brian.
An Aluminum Driveline is good for the following two reasons:
1.) A lighter rotating mass, which means that any imbalance won't translate as badly into vibration (the percentage of driveline mass imbalance being equal).
2.) A very slight reduction in overall rotating mass, which means that it can be accelerated more quickly. I seriously doubt that you could measure this improvement, as it will be slight when compared to other rotating masses of your vehicle. Your four rims and tires are a far bigger factor here.
The assumption that you will gain horsepower is totally false. If you were to gain 15 horsepower from a new driveline, that would mean that your old driveline is absorbing 15 horsepower now. From a heat perspective:
15 hp * 745 watts/hp = 11,200 watts.
This would get your driveline somewhere near the temperature of a meteor on reentry.
If you have driveline shakes, go ahead. Otherwise, save your money.
Brian.
1/18/06, 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Gearhead@January 18, 2006, 12:13 PM
Hi MSP,
An Aluminum Driveline is good for the following two reasons:
1.) A lighter rotating mass, which means that any imbalance won't translate as badly into vibration (the percentage of driveline mass imbalance being equal).
2.) A very slight reduction in overall rotating mass, which means that it can be accelerated more quickly. I seriously doubt that you could measure this improvement, as it will be slight when compared to other rotating masses of your vehicle. Your four rims and tires are a far bigger factor here.
The assumption that you will gain horsepower is totally false. If you were to gain 15 horsepower from a new driveline, that would mean that your old driveline is absorbing 15 horsepower now. From a heat perspective:
15 hp * 745 watts/hp = 11,200 watts.
This would get your driveline somewhere near the temperature of a meteor on reentry.
If you have driveline shakes, go ahead. Otherwise, save your money.
Brian.
Hi MSP,
An Aluminum Driveline is good for the following two reasons:
1.) A lighter rotating mass, which means that any imbalance won't translate as badly into vibration (the percentage of driveline mass imbalance being equal).
2.) A very slight reduction in overall rotating mass, which means that it can be accelerated more quickly. I seriously doubt that you could measure this improvement, as it will be slight when compared to other rotating masses of your vehicle. Your four rims and tires are a far bigger factor here.
The assumption that you will gain horsepower is totally false. If you were to gain 15 horsepower from a new driveline, that would mean that your old driveline is absorbing 15 horsepower now. From a heat perspective:
15 hp * 745 watts/hp = 11,200 watts.
This would get your driveline somewhere near the temperature of a meteor on reentry.
If you have driveline shakes, go ahead. Otherwise, save your money.
Brian.
Yes 15 HP may be abit much.. No one knows exactly how much it will be until someone gets it done.. So yes, doubtful that it would be 15HP.. However, it would of course reduce the loss to the rear wheels.. With 15% as a baseline of loss for a 5spd, this may help to lower the loss by 1 or 2 percent...
So looking at a stock V6, instead of saying a loss of 15%, you could use 14 or 13%.. Perhaps 12%.. Like I said, we wont know.. But that would be about 4 RWHP... Quite significant... Couple this to the fact that it would allow the motor to spin up faster.. Again no one knows by how much,,,
It has been stated that the stock driveline will fail above a top speed of 115mph... Still quite adequate for street use... But it is a mod to consider none the less... After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
Definately not a huge priority.. But another topic which a thread was created, about so should have been discussed...
V6's,,, So take it for what its worth to you..
1/18/06, 02:05 PM
#5
Shelby GT350 Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by MSP@January 18, 2006, 4:52 PM
After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
1/18/06, 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by MSP@January 18, 2006, 3:52 PM
Yes 15 HP may be abit much.. No one knows exactly how much it will be until someone gets it done.. So yes, doubtful that it would be 15HP.. However, it would of course reduce the loss to the rear wheels.. With 15% as a baseline of loss for a 5spd, this may help to lower the loss by 1 or 2 percent...
So looking at a stock V6, instead of saying a loss of 15%, you could use 14 or 13%.. Perhaps 12%.. Like I said, we wont know.. But that would be about 4 RWHP... Quite significant... Couple this to the fact that it would allow the motor to spin up faster.. Again no one knows by how much,,,
It has been stated that the stock driveline will fail above a top speed of 115mph... Still quite adequate for street use... But it is a mod to consider none the less... After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
Definately not a huge priority.. But another topic which a thread was created, about so should have been discussed...
V6's,,, So take it for what its worth to you..
Yes 15 HP may be abit much.. No one knows exactly how much it will be until someone gets it done.. So yes, doubtful that it would be 15HP.. However, it would of course reduce the loss to the rear wheels.. With 15% as a baseline of loss for a 5spd, this may help to lower the loss by 1 or 2 percent...
So looking at a stock V6, instead of saying a loss of 15%, you could use 14 or 13%.. Perhaps 12%.. Like I said, we wont know.. But that would be about 4 RWHP... Quite significant... Couple this to the fact that it would allow the motor to spin up faster.. Again no one knows by how much,,,
It has been stated that the stock driveline will fail above a top speed of 115mph... Still quite adequate for street use... But it is a mod to consider none the less... After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
Definately not a huge priority.. But another topic which a thread was created, about so should have been discussed...
V6's,,, So take it for what its worth to you..
I would be very surprised by this (a GT auto driveshaft will fit a V6 auto)... I could be wrong.. but I'ld be surprised none the less..
The GT and the V6 have the same model auto tranny but there are differences.... i believe the input shaft is different... so maybe the output is too? Don't forget the V6 is a 7.5... so there may be enough of a difference so the GT driveshaft won't work...
Like I said I haven't researched it at all... so I could be way off base here...
1/18/06, 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by scrming@January 18, 2006, 2:17 PM
I would be very surprised by this (a GT auto driveshaft will fit a V6 auto)... I could be wrong.. but I'ld be surprised none the less..
The GT and the V6 have the same model auto tranny but there are differences.... i believe the input shaft is different... so maybe the output is too? Don't forget the V6 is a 7.5... so there may be enough of a difference so the GT driveshaft won't work...
Like I said I haven't researched it at all... so I could be way off base here...
I would be very surprised by this (a GT auto driveshaft will fit a V6 auto)... I could be wrong.. but I'ld be surprised none the less..
The GT and the V6 have the same model auto tranny but there are differences.... i believe the input shaft is different... so maybe the output is too? Don't forget the V6 is a 7.5... so there may be enough of a difference so the GT driveshaft won't work...
Like I said I haven't researched it at all... so I could be way off base here...
Just going on what the guy at the FRPP parts store told to me.. You could be right Scrming.. However, this is only a quote of what I was told.. However, I do expect you to be the first to find out and buy one.. So I will expect a report soon... Far be it from you to let something as valuable and as cheap as this to stand in your way... LOL!! No way, if it will fit, believe Scrming will have it first!!
Also, make sure it sees track time first!...LOL!! Ok Scrming, take the ball and run!!Read this part on this link...
Fits 1979-95 Mustang/Capri 5.0L vehicles with T-5/SROD/C-4/A0D, 1979-93 with Tremec transmissions and 7.5" or 8.8" axles. 28 spline yoke
So this means 7.5 or 8.8 has no effect.. Only the amount of splines, which is 28!!
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_...rtKeyField=2980
Understand that I am only pointing out the 7.5 and 8.8 situation.. Disregard the older years present in the link... This is the part for the 2005 Mustang GT.. Found here...
http://www.fordracingparts.com/announcements/news15.asp
1/18/06, 06:42 PM
#8
Bullitt Member
Originally posted by MSP@January 18, 2006, 1:52 PM
Yes 15 HP may be abit much.. No one knows exactly how much it will be until someone gets it done.. So yes, doubtful that it would be 15HP.. However, it would of course reduce the loss to the rear wheels.. With 15% as a baseline of loss for a 5spd, this may help to lower the loss by 1 or 2 percent...
So looking at a stock V6, instead of saying a loss of 15%, you could use 14 or 13%.. Perhaps 12%.. Like I said, we wont know.. But that would be about 4 RWHP... Quite significant... Couple this to the fact that it would allow the motor to spin up faster.. Again no one knows by how much,,,
It has been stated that the stock driveline will fail above a top speed of 115mph... Still quite adequate for street use... But it is a mod to consider none the less... After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
Definately not a huge priority.. But another topic which a thread was created, about so should have been discussed...
V6's,,, So take it for what its worth to you..
Yes 15 HP may be abit much.. No one knows exactly how much it will be until someone gets it done.. So yes, doubtful that it would be 15HP.. However, it would of course reduce the loss to the rear wheels.. With 15% as a baseline of loss for a 5spd, this may help to lower the loss by 1 or 2 percent...
So looking at a stock V6, instead of saying a loss of 15%, you could use 14 or 13%.. Perhaps 12%.. Like I said, we wont know.. But that would be about 4 RWHP... Quite significant... Couple this to the fact that it would allow the motor to spin up faster.. Again no one knows by how much,,,
It has been stated that the stock driveline will fail above a top speed of 115mph... Still quite adequate for street use... But it is a mod to consider none the less... After all FRPP makes an aluminum driveshaft for the GT, but not for the V6.. This of course means that all of those with an Automatic V6 can just buy a GT Automatic tranny driveline in aluminum.. But those of us with 5spds, need an alternative...
Definately not a huge priority.. But another topic which a thread was created, about so should have been discussed...
V6's,,, So take it for what its worth to you..
Another way to look at this is to try to find a trustworthy test of before and after. I think you will be hard-pressed to find any measurable improvement.
On my 1988 GT, I did get a custom driveline built for it, but it was for balance issues. After the gear reduction from 3.08:1 to 3.55:1, the shaking was very noticeable, and the factory driveline just wasn't that well balanced to begin with. A good shop can make a very smooth running driveline. Balance is a great reason to do an upgrade, but don't expect to get more power.
1/19/06, 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Gearhead@January 18, 2006, 5:45 PM
Well, if you were to Dyno your vehicle, you really could not measure the difference, as this is a steady-state speed and power throughput. I will admit that a theoretical improvement in rate of acceleration is there, but it is only by the very slight reduction in overall rotating mass. You accelerate the mass of the vehicle linearly, and you rotate up-to-speed the engine, clutch, transmission, driveline, rear-end and axle, and four wheels. If you were to calculate the percentage that the driveline is of the rotating inertia, it wouldn't be very much, and then you aren't going to lighten it by that much either.
Another way to look at this is to try to find a trustworthy test of before and after. I think you will be hard-pressed to find any measurable improvement.
On my 1988 GT, I did get a custom driveline built for it, but it was for balance issues. After the gear reduction from 3.08:1 to 3.55:1, the shaking was very noticeable, and the factory driveline just wasn't that well balanced to begin with. A good shop can make a very smooth running driveline. Balance is a great reason to do an upgrade, but don't expect to get more power.
Well, if you were to Dyno your vehicle, you really could not measure the difference, as this is a steady-state speed and power throughput. I will admit that a theoretical improvement in rate of acceleration is there, but it is only by the very slight reduction in overall rotating mass. You accelerate the mass of the vehicle linearly, and you rotate up-to-speed the engine, clutch, transmission, driveline, rear-end and axle, and four wheels. If you were to calculate the percentage that the driveline is of the rotating inertia, it wouldn't be very much, and then you aren't going to lighten it by that much either.
Another way to look at this is to try to find a trustworthy test of before and after. I think you will be hard-pressed to find any measurable improvement.
On my 1988 GT, I did get a custom driveline built for it, but it was for balance issues. After the gear reduction from 3.08:1 to 3.55:1, the shaking was very noticeable, and the factory driveline just wasn't that well balanced to begin with. A good shop can make a very smooth running driveline. Balance is a great reason to do an upgrade, but don't expect to get more power.
I guess I was right afterall.. It is 15+ HP.... I will never doubt myself again... LOL!! This one is carbon fiber.. However, the aluminum will probably be about the same weight......
http://www.bmrfabrication.com/2005Mustang.htm
WOW!! They want almost $1k for this driveshaft.. Now thats not worth on 15HP.. LOL!!
BMR carbon fiber driveshafts provide a variety of benefits for your '05 Mustang. The overcomplicated factory two-piece shaft weighs an unbelievable 42.3 lbs. as compared to our 20.7lb. one-piece carbon fiber replacement. This rotational weight reduction alone is responsible for gains of 15+ rear wheel horsepower. Additionally the benefits of carbon fiber can be felt and heard in reduced driveline harmonics and vibration. Carbon fiber absorbs these harmonics much more efficiently without the long term fatique associated with steel or aluminum. The factory driveshaft is rated at an estimated 450-500rwhp while we rate our carbon fiber shaft up to 1000+ rwhp.
The carbon used in these shafts has two distinct wind angles to provide the most unparalleled torsional rigidity (45 degree wind angle) without sacrificing linear strength (15 degree wind angle). Additionally our driveshaft is provided with solid 1350 series u-joints and a CNC machined 7075 billet front flange to replace the OE cast piece. Since the OE shaft was designed with CV joints, a u-joint style pinion yoke is required to convert the pinion. We have a new 4340 billet pinion yoke available at competitive pricing or you can source one from other driveline specialists such as Moser or Strange.
Shipped complete with new pinion nut, u-bolts and instructions. NOTE: Rear pinion flange requires professional installation. Improper installation of yoke can result in gear whine and premature gear wear.
DS005 3.75" Carbon Fiber one-piece driveshaft $949.95
1/19/06, 12:38 AM
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Here is the JPC Aluminum driveshaft for the GT.. Weighing in at an astonishing 17Lbs.. LOL!! Needless to say, the deal I got on mine for $385 is starting to look a whole lot better... If 20Lbs is worth 15+ HP, then 17lbs should be worth 20RWHP+!!! LOL!!! I'm going for it guys.. Thats my next mod...
This is my very next mod...
http://www.jpcracing.com/store/product_inf...roducts_id=1455
For guys with automatics, it may still be cheaper to go with my shop for the aluminum driveshaft... Stick with me, and we will get these things down the track!
Actually the FRPP is $285 for the aluminum, so that may be better... I'll get mine and see what happens, then you guys can decide on what to do next... I need time to get this done.. Afterall, I dont have my car right now.. So once it gets back, I'll get the exhaust put back on, then get the driveline ripped out to get the aluminum one built..
This is my very next mod...
http://www.jpcracing.com/store/product_inf...roducts_id=1455
For guys with automatics, it may still be cheaper to go with my shop for the aluminum driveshaft... Stick with me, and we will get these things down the track!
Actually the FRPP is $285 for the aluminum, so that may be better... I'll get mine and see what happens, then you guys can decide on what to do next... I need time to get this done.. Afterall, I dont have my car right now.. So once it gets back, I'll get the exhaust put back on, then get the driveline ripped out to get the aluminum one built..
1/20/06, 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by MSP@January 19, 2006, 3:16 AM
I guess I was right afterall.. It is 15+ HP.... I will never doubt myself again... LOL!! This one is carbon fiber.. However, the aluminum will probably be about the same weight......
I guess I was right afterall.. It is 15+ HP.... I will never doubt myself again... LOL!! This one is carbon fiber.. However, the aluminum will probably be about the same weight......
You may be right about there being HP gains, but we are alearning that some of the claims from soem of the companies are a little suspect.....
1/20/06, 07:50 AM
#12
Here is some more information to chew on:
http://www.v6power.net/vb/showthread.php?t=24143
This one has my interest, just like a stall converter, however this will be after I do everything else possible to my car. So we are talking a 1 to 1.5 years down the road.
Also, like Gearhead said, would the gain show on a dyno? I would imagine before and after 1/4 mile times would be the ultimate test.
http://www.v6power.net/vb/showthread.php?t=24143
This one has my interest, just like a stall converter, however this will be after I do everything else possible to my car. So we are talking a 1 to 1.5 years down the road.
Also, like Gearhead said, would the gain show on a dyno? I would imagine before and after 1/4 mile times would be the ultimate test.
1/20/06, 08:06 AM
#13
Originally posted by MSP@January 19, 2006, 2:41 AM
Here is the JPC Aluminum driveshaft for the GT.. Weighing in at an astonishing 17Lbs.. LOL!! Needless to say, the deal I got on mine for $385 is starting to look a whole lot better... If 20Lbs is worth 15+ HP, then 17lbs should be worth 20RWHP+!!! LOL!!! I'm going for it guys.. Thats my next mod...
This is my very next mod...
http://www.jpcracing.com/store/product_inf...roducts_id=1455
For guys with automatics, it may still be cheaper to go with my shop for the aluminum driveshaft... Stick with me, and we will get these things down the track!
Actually the FRPP is $285 for the aluminum, so that may be better... I'll get mine and see what happens, then you guys can decide on what to do next... I need time to get this done.. Afterall, I dont have my car right now.. So once it gets back, I'll get the exhaust put back on, then get the driveline ripped out to get the aluminum one built..
Here is the JPC Aluminum driveshaft for the GT.. Weighing in at an astonishing 17Lbs.. LOL!! Needless to say, the deal I got on mine for $385 is starting to look a whole lot better... If 20Lbs is worth 15+ HP, then 17lbs should be worth 20RWHP+!!! LOL!!! I'm going for it guys.. Thats my next mod...
This is my very next mod...
http://www.jpcracing.com/store/product_inf...roducts_id=1455
For guys with automatics, it may still be cheaper to go with my shop for the aluminum driveshaft... Stick with me, and we will get these things down the track!
Actually the FRPP is $285 for the aluminum, so that may be better... I'll get mine and see what happens, then you guys can decide on what to do next... I need time to get this done.. Afterall, I dont have my car right now.. So once it gets back, I'll get the exhaust put back on, then get the driveline ripped out to get the aluminum one built..
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