Thomas S

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/pdf/40SOHCTech.pdf
They say you can go up to a 4.3. They also have a bunch of new parts for the 4.0, including heads, head studs, cams and forged pistons!
http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/PDF/SSM...CatalogVer2.pdf

rygenstormlocke

Good find!!! I didn't even think to check thier website. I have the MMFF mag they were in, very cool stuff. They went over every inch of that engine.

ManEHawke

Sweet, this made my day.
The pistons are my main interest.

MSP

What about the Head Studs guys? Dont you think for $375, this should be an upgrade that gets upfront attention? I am of the mindset, that since I will start out with the 150Shot jets, I should get these installed first..

There are alot of things here which is good.. Lets say for instance we go with the 4.3L Stroker setup.. Based on my calculations, this alone should bring HP up to 241 HP.. This is 3.66HP more per liter than the stock, which is 52.5.. In terms of torque the 4.3L stroker kit for us should yield a new torque value of 275FT. Lbs... So this is what we are looking at roughly, based on the additional .3 Liters... This is you just slapped in the Stroker Kit..

4.3L Stroker for 4.0= 241HP 275 Ft. Lbs of Torque.. Of course with an upgrade like this, it would be wise to also put the Stage 2+ heads.. This should bring the numbers up dramatically on a N/A situation.. Tremendously on a NOS situation, or SC..

So the Stoker kit yields us 4 more HP per liter, and 4 more Ft. lbs. per liter..

Now if we take this into the context of a 100SHot, which work has been provided by Scrming, we come up with these numbers on a 100Shot of NOS, to a Stock 4.3L Stroker..

Right now Scrming is at 253HP, and 384FT Lbs of torque with the 100 shot.. While on the juice Scrming is effectively looking somewhat like this per liter..

SOHC 4.3L Stroker N/A
HP= 241HP @ Crank
TQ= 275Ft Lbs. @ Crank

RWHP=205 RWHP
RWTQ=234 RWTQ

SOHC 4.0 Stock N/A
HP= 210HP @ Crank
TQ= 240TQ @ Crank

RWHP=179 RWHP
RWTQ=204 RWTQ

SOHC 4.0 with 100Shot

HP= 63.25HP Per Liter
TQ= 96 Ft Lbs. Per Liter
Total= 253 RWHP- 384 RWTQ

On the 4.3L Stroker this becomes..

SOHC 4.3L Stroker with 100Shot

HP= 67.25 Per Liter
TQ= 100Ft Lbs. Per Liter
Total=289RWHP - 430FT.Lbs of RWTQ..

This is of course based on Scrming's RWHP numbers.. So we are looking at RWHP numbers effectively.. Now @ the Crank the numbers look like this..

With NOS 100SHOT

SOHC 4.3L Stroker Crank HP= 332HP
SOHC 4.3L Stroker Crank TQ= 495Ft Lbs

I would say we all start making serious plans to get stroked.. Based on these preliminary numbers, which are accurate based on the calculations as they should be, this is the bare minimum we can expect from this kit, with 100Shot of NOS.. This is truley awsome power to start off with.. Again, this has not upgraded the pistons or heads yet.. So these numbers will only go up from here, with the addition of either more NOS injection, and by adding Heads, and Pistons.. Also, tunning this type of envirornment should yield some outstanding numbers, even without adding heads, or the pistons.. The pistons would have to be added anyway, because yu will already have the pan down.. Might as well put in the Forged Wiseco Pistons!

I'm in guys.. Lets do it!!

I re-edited the stock N/A HP numbers for the 4.3L Stroker.. My Mistake.. Sorry.. They are accurate now.. The revised numbers are 241HP with 275Ft. lbs of Torque @ the Crank.. Sorry about that.. Post has been edited with the proper values..

ManEHawke

Wow I want to build this motor N/A so bad but desire a power adder at the same time. Until I have the money to invest I should have it all figured out.
What I will try to do now though is check with engine machine shops to see if maybe I can save some money through getting my head & cam work. I wouldn't know what to do with my heads and cams if I bought another set.

MSP

For me, my initial Power-Adder is going to be NOS.. This is because this allows me to first setup the motor for a more robust envirornment so that when the permanent Power adder is added, there will be no worries about the engine and internals..

I look at it like this.. Would you rather leave the motor as a 4.0, or upgrade it to a 4.3.. Its nice to claim your are only one of very few 2005 Mustang V6's in the US with a 4.3Liter motor.. LOL!!

Now get this, the point is to do things in the proper order.. Logically, it should be understood that the 4.3 upgrade should happen first before anything else.. This way, once the final Power adder is installed, there are no worries about internals, its all forged..

MSP

Also ManEHawke, I want you to really understand what is unique about these numbers for the 4.3L Stroker.. These numbers are based soley on adding the Stroker kit to the existing 4.0.. Take these numbers, and add the heads later, and look what you got.. Easily above 300HP, and 300TQ easily.. Plus get it all tuned and your hated by everyone! LOL!!

ManEHawke

Exactly. That's the main reason I could stick with an N/A V6.
I would do everything once I have everything gathered, that way the motor will get pulled out once. Stroker kit, heads, cams, and pistons all go in.

Time and the fact that this is my daily driver are my only obstacles

MSP

I am definatley going to see what the availability is on the Stroker kit..

Did you also notice that the cams are also available? I'm quite sure that even just getting the heads re-done along with the cams would do magic as well.. There are alot of things we can do.. Thats really the best part about all of this.. LOL!!

Thomas S

I didn't see anything about a stroker kit, guess that is in the works. I don't know if you saw it but to get to 4.3 you'd need to bore the cylinders .030 over. I don't really know if I'd want to do that. Ahh, what the heck, I want to do it!

MSP

I shot them an email.. We'll see what is possible atleast.. Sure would be nice though.. LOL!! The N/A numbers look real good..


I'm sure its just a matter of time Jimp.. I can understand them not rushing to fill the space too soon, everyones car is still new.. LOL!! I'm quite sure they could provide the parts to make it work..

Thomas S

I noticed in that PDF that they didn't mention anything about the chains as a potential problem. :scratch: Now I really think that "Damage, Inc" from the other forum was making the 4.0 sound a lot worse than it is. I mean, he called the T5 worthless! How many built 5.0s used that tranny with no problems? Chicken Little indeed!

Fazm

The chain/tensioners arent a problem after mid 2001 4.0 engines i believe.

as far as boring the engine over another .030, that seems risky in my book, thats like tryin to take the chevy 350 and bore and stroke it to 460 (when coming from the 2.6) I wont be doin any deep engine work until i blow something.

Claiming to get 300hp with .3 more liters with the bore/stroke and heads/cams is a lil extreme i think. Now doin this along with supporting mods (headers, high flow cats, exhaust, the custome tune) i think that it wouldnt be out of the question to hit 300hp on every car, and maybe 320-330 on some. But an "easy" 300 out of increased displacement/stroke and better air flow in the heads, i have my doubts.

Only time will tell, and id love to be proved wrong. I think if the compression ratio was raised to 10.1:1 or something like that, it would be a little easier to do.

ManEHawke

I would love for them to add dome pistons.
About the displacement upgrade, it could be another option to only stroke it to 3.5" and keep the same bore. The TQ will still increase with the added momentum from the piston travel.
Cams and head/valve work may get 300hp, but those would be likely at the crank. Add a smooth flowing intake&exhaust, pay the $350 for a dyno tune and getting to 300rwhp could be likely.

MSP

Yes.. This is kinda what I meant when I refered to them as speaking of older 4.0's..

At any rate, in the PDF he does say there is room to goto 4.3L..

I hate even thinking about this.. I'll wait to see what the email says.. I need to try and stay focused on one track.. This is throwing all my plans out of wack.. Because essentially, if we can get such a kit, I would make it first priority based on the forged internals which accompany the kit..

rygenstormlocke

I had a feeling this might throw you off from your current goal. But I would still give it some thought, imagine a NOS setup on a 4.3L in our cars. That combination would negate the need for a Turbo setup if you do the numbers. Though looking at the PDF and adding the costs, it may be more to go the 4.3 route after everything is done, however, you would have more hp on a N/A engine and probably less maintenance. Plus, going the 4.3 route would really strengthen the engine for pretty much anything.

Hmmm.....I'm going to have to think this one through as well. :scratch:

Thomas S

Only thing is, you'd have to pull the engine completely out and apart to do this. But you'd have the additional power all the time. And it would be nice to know the engine would hold up to a turbo or supercharger if you go that route later. :scratch:

rygenstormlocke

Doing the math, and assuming you already have a true dual exhaust setup, TLOK, bearings, gears, etc, we are talking $3939.00 and that is if you go with headers. I am probably going to put headers in the car after the holidays at the same time as the nitrous kit.

Hmmm, wonder if I can convince the wife that I need all of the tax refund money next year. LOL. She just disovered my TLOK, gears, bearings yesterday, so my mod spending is suspended until she is done with the xmas list. Heh heh.

DanteMO

Jimp,

I appreciate what damage inc was saying but I think he's taking his experience and generalizing it (IMHO). We all do it (I bought "insert product name here" and it broke in two months. "Insert Product Name here" really sux and don't buy it!) when in fact we might have just gotten a bad apple. It's the statistics I believe in. "In god we trust, all other's bring data" is my creed.

Now if 4.0L were throwing timing chains, wouldn't it have been all over this board and others like it. Wouldn't the GT'ers be pounding us with "Told ya so" kinda posts? What me and screamn can't figure out is if the 4.0L has big problems in terms of poweradders and the achilles heel is the timing chains for the cams, then what is Shelby going to do with the CS6 to mitigate this issue.. John and I both said something doesn't add up here... I could be way off base but I just don't get it...

Frank

rygenstormlocke

Thats exactly my point, no guessing games on the sweet spot for power adders, safe RPM, etc. And like you said, the power is always there.

With this setup, it could take a beating. They have a stroked 3.8 in a 10 second car already, and it is holding up fine, In fact, they said they are gonna try for a 250HP shot on that car. Insane!