MSP

Hey all, hope everyone is doing fine.. I have not been here for quite awhile but still hold The MustangSource very close to my heart..

My latest project is underway and involves the use of what is commonly known as the "Disco Potato".. This is a GT28RS Garrett Turbo which by its nature is internally wastegated... I will be running a pair of them..

This project is more of a challenge for myself, than trying to find a better solution than the Vortech.. Which by the way is the absolute best solution for the S197 V6 package in terms of Supercharging...

Since The Mustang Source is held by me in such high esteem, it is my wish to post the very first pictures here, along with the dyno sheet..

I am pretty much reserving this space for now, as a promise to this fine website..

Happy new year, and be safe!! Talk to ya soon!!

Scothew

Interesting, look forward to seeing more.

MSP

Thanks for your support Scothew!!

Here is alittle background information teaser which should highlight my true intentions... Notice the line about launching in 2nd gear with just one of these little french fries!




The Potato turbo great bolt-in replacement for the Silvia's stock T25. In fact, from the outside, the two turbos look nearly identical. The oil feed and both water fittings for the water-cooled centre housings are identical to the stock turbo. They do require minor modifications depending on make and model as they are a generic turbo not model specific (mainly the comp cover and actuator positioning and plumbing). It was developed by Garrett in the US for a project car called the Disco Potato with an SR20 powerplant.The car's power was impressive, 280 hp at the wheels, but not earth-shattering. The driving experience however, was. Throttle response was excellent, turbo lag virtually non-existent, and the tyre-smoking horsepower was outstanding. The turbo spooled up early, making so much torque, that the best quarter-mile time (13.7 at 104.5 mph) was achieved launching in second gear. The vehicle was so successful that Garrett the turbo as the GT28RS.

rygenstormlocke

I've seen your posts on this elsewhere, should be very interesting. Turbos generate a crap load of TQ, get ready to go through a few sets of tires. LOL.

MSP

Hey Rygen!! If I could someday be half the man you are, I'll be in good shape!

scrming

Potatoes.. boil'em, mash'em, stick'em in a stew!!!

http://www.nothingtodo.co.uk/view/76...in_a_stew.html


You turbo traitor you!!!


(just kidding... keep us posted!)

BurntPony

Vortech?

Please explane.

MSP

@Rygen


Hey man, of course you understood I was referring to your built and forged 4.1L SOHC with 8.8:1 compression?

Not sure if my last reply came out right.. I am pretty sure you understood it, just not sure if others could read between the lines... LOL!!

@BurntPony

Are you asking Vortech a question or me? If your referring to me opting to go to twin turbo's and asking Vortech to explain then let me answer..



There is nothing for Vortech to explain...

Let me be alittle more precise in my answer.. LOL!

There are currently no available Twin urbo kits on the market for the S197 V6 platform.... Now the Vortech V2 Supercharger has enough lbs/min flow to explode my motor into atleast 100 small pieces.. So from that you should gather that this has nothing at all to do with HP.. It has more to do with the fact that I am designing the Twin Turbo kit myself..

The horsepower I intend to produce with the Twin Turbo project, is similar to that of what the Vortech is able to produce.. Any higher and my engine wont last...

So this project has nothing to do with my feelings of what the Vortech is capable of.. If you look at the V2 Compressor map, you can see it exceeds the flow rate of the SOHC 4.0 by far.. Which means it can produce more horsepower than what can be contained inside of 245ci...



Our motor can flow 59lbs/min with a 100% VE.. Of course do to VE we cant fully realize the HP with the motor in stock form.. You would need a built motor with heads and cams to get close to the 100% VE standard...

So this project is simple.. I am building it myself, which is quite different than pitting it against a very good product like Vortechs...

Basically I posted the V2 map to illustrate that this is not about raw HP.. The Vortech is way more than our V6 can handle.. This is a personal mission.. Thats all..

Evil_Capri

Good luck with the build.

MSP

Thanks Evil_Capri!! I'm going to need it!

BurntPony

I dont agree that the Vortech is the absolute best solution.

I studied the various SC'ing options for quite awhile before I bought the Procharger.

I liked the Explorer Xpress for its lighter overall weight, less weight foreward, ease of installation, compact size, and looks. Water injection helps minimize the loss of the intercooler.

I liked the Procharger because it has a 3-core intercooler and was alot less expensive than the Vortech.

10psi and @300 rwhp is plenty on a stock 4.0, at least if you want it to have a long happy life.

The Vortech was just to expensive compared to the Procharger, so for me I didnt see any benefit to the Vortech.

MSP

Well by all means Burntpony!! Absolutley! As long as your a happy S197 V6 owner at 300RWHP, then I am happy for you!! No doubt!

AnotherMustangMan

I'm not sure he was looking for your doubtlessly sincere and enthusiastic support. I think he actually wanted you to substantiate your bold claim.

MSP

Oh no!! Please AnotherMustangMan, lets be kind to eachother!! Hope you had a Merry Christmas!!

The very articulate and well spoken AnotherMustangMan has noticed my return... I sure hope things go well.. LOL!!

MSP

Here is a video of an Audi S4 Twin Turbo which makes 907HP.. It is powered by 2 GT28RS turbo's identicle to the ones purchased for my latest project.. Enjoy!!

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search


Here is another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MERn7VbSekg&NR

MSP

For anyone else considering to go twin turbo, another very good option for our motors, is a T04E 57trim turbo...

Running these in twin mode for our motors is also a very good choice in terms of aiflow and optimum efficiency... Take a look at the compressor map...



Our SOHC 4.0 in twin turbo mode should fall along the lines of about 23-30lbs/min in terms of airflow.. Which places the T04E right around 72% efficiency at roughly 8-10psi of boost.. Very nice option!!

Also, the quoted airflow is based on 6000rpm.. Which as you can see places the motor in a very good position throughout the rpm range.. This particular turbo will also come into boost in a reasonable amount of time.. Very little boost lag if any in twin mode...

A quick romp on the pedal with these should get you into boost from a dead stop rather quickley.. You probably wont be able to get the tires to hookup though.. LOL!! The torque would pretty much shred the tires...

MSP

One more important note in the differences between my choice, and the TO4E option..

The GT28RS turbo's are internally wastegated turbo's.. Which means, the wastegate is built into the turbo..

The TO4E turbos are an externally wastegated turbo, which means you will probably need to run 2 38mm wastegates.. One for each turbo..

This obviously means that your exhaust system would have to take into account the spacing for the wastegates and also a downpipe wategate return pipe down stream in your exhaust downpipe for each turbo..

Its not that much more involved, but does add cost to deployment.. Not much, but money is money..

The goal is the least expensive path to deployment for some.. Some people actually prefer an external wastegate for turbine performance reasons.. However, the GT28RS turbo's offer flanges which do allow for the seperation of downpipe exhaust, and the internal wastegate exhaust so there is no effect either way..

Its just another good option for our motors, which is my reason for pointing it out...

MSP

Did some more revisions in terms of airflow stats at 10psi...


2005 SOHC 4.0 @ 6000RPM 10psi of boost at (130F)<-----Intercooled 80%(VE)

Ideal Airflow= 424CFM

Actual Airflow= 339CFM

6000RPM= 43.04lbs/min Flow rate Single Turbo

6000RPM= 21.52lbs/min Flow rate Twin-Turbo

Use these numbers in the future, because they have more variables plugged into them which will give a considerably more accurate and real world foundation...

These numbers can be considered official.. Takem to the bank and cash'em...

Use these numbers to scan compressor maps..

MSP

To give a more clear idea of reality I have taken my last dyno which was done at 355RWHP @ 125F boost temp..

My calculated flowrate is 29.45lbs/min @ 6000RPM... This produces 355RWHP @ 14psi in my setup... An actual 230CFM..

Each one of these turbo's can flow 31lbs/min.. LOL!!

If you break the 29.45lbs/min in half you have 14.723lbs/min per turbo...

This will also be without any parasitic losses.. So the RWHP would increase even with the exact same airflow using these turbo's..

These turbos will get me 75% efficiency at 9psi of boost per turbo....



Heres the specs..

Dual Ball Bearing GT28R Turbo assembly with internal wastegate assembly. .64ar turbine with 5 bolt exit. Very very Good response turbo for 4 Cyl applications. This turbo has a flow capacity of about 310HP.

Turbine
-Wheel: 53mm w/ 62 trim
-Housing: .64 ar


Compressor
-Wheel: 60mm w/ 60 trim
-Housing: .60 ar

sundeep

If you haven't watched that video of the twin turbo audi, watch it! It's freaking ridiculous!!!

If you can turn the mustang into half the beast that audi is, you are the man!!!