non-warranty affecting HP increasing mods
4/4/05 | 05:40 PM
#1
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I am getting my 05 Mustang in about a month and was already planning to do some HP boosting since it is a V6 and all. So I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions other than cold air intake and exhaust on how to boost your HP without voiding the warranty or raising insurance costs?
4/4/05 | 06:14 PM
#2
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Originally posted by coolstang3@April 4, 2005, 6:43 PM
I am getting my 05 Mustang in about a month and was already planning to do some HP boosting since it is a V6 and all. So I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions other than cold air intake and exhaust on how to boost your HP without voiding the warranty or raising insurance costs?
I am getting my 05 Mustang in about a month and was already planning to do some HP boosting since it is a V6 and all. So I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions other than cold air intake and exhaust on how to boost your HP without voiding the warranty or raising insurance costs?
4/4/05 | 11:10 PM
#4
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Originally posted by mustangspeeder@April 4, 2005, 7:21 PM
The intake would only be a problem if it was found to cause a problem. IE if your stereo breaks they can't blame it on the CAI or any other non-related mod.
The intake would only be a problem if it was found to cause a problem. IE if your stereo breaks they can't blame it on the CAI or any other non-related mod.
You could remove it before taking it to the dealer, but again, without a reflash, what good is the CAI based on what we've seen with the modded cars so far?
4/5/05 | 09:52 AM
#5
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Originally posted by Dan+April 4, 2005, 10:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan @ April 4, 2005, 10:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-mustangspeeder@April 4, 2005, 7:21 PM
The intake would only be a problem if it was found to cause a problem. IE if your stereo breaks they can't blame it on the CAI or any other non-related mod.
The intake would only be a problem if it was found to cause a problem. IE if your stereo breaks they can't blame it on the CAI or any other non-related mod.
You could remove it before taking it to the dealer, but again, without a reflash, what good is the CAI based on what we've seen with the modded cars so far?
[/b][/quote]
There is no HC trap on the V6. Also, the only cai out at the moment for the V6 gives about 10 rwhp without a tune, but more with a tune. They can't void his warenty for the cai, as it is against th law for them to do so. They have to be able to prove that whatever he did caused the problem in order to void the warenty.
Aftermarket vs. Factory Warranty
4/5/05 | 09:59 AM
#6
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The text is a little small on that page, so I'll copy it here. It's an interesting read for all of you worried about dealers voiding your warranty.
Aftermarket vs. Factory Warranty
In today's market, even the most ardent enthusiast might pause before making any performance modifications to a late-model, emission-controlled vehicle. One of the first considerations before "bolting-on" is the legality of any such modification.
With the performance aftermarket industry working at flank speed to develop new emission-legal performance products, it should not be too long before owners of virtually any late-model performance vehicle will be able to purchase fully emission-legal performance products.
The next major concern for anyone who has just plunked down $20 to $50K or more is: What will the addition of performance products do to the durability of my vehicle; and more importantly, will the addition of these products void my factory warranty?
On the subject of durability, performance modifications that have been engineered to meet emission standards and used prudently should not affect the overall durability of your vehicle. To clarify this, an engine that was designed to make 300 horsepower, is not likely to live as long at 400, but how often is the 400 horsepower actually utilized over, let's say, 100,000 miles? This is, in most cases, is driver related.
Common sense would dictate that the addition of a performance exhaust system should not void the factory warranty on an air conditioning unit. However when it comes to the dealer's understanding of the law, common sense might not carry the day.
To find answers to some of the warranty questions, we started our research with copies of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act of 1987, which basically defines how a warranty should be written, along with the definitions of full, limited and implied warranties.
As we started working through piles of paperwork, we contacted the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) for legal information and found that great minds think alike. SEMA had, with the help of its lawyers, just completed a brief outline of consumer's rights with regards to the addition of aftermarket performance products.
To some degree, the bottom line is good common sense. If you take a car to the service island with a tattletale boost gauge stuck at 10 psi over the rated boost pressure, and a set of fried piston rings, things could be a little hectic. On the other hand, if you have made some fairly mild modifications, and a service advisor tells you that the warranty on your car is void, you have rights under the law. As outlined in the sidebar, below are some phone numbers to call for help.
Let's take a look at a few typical customer complaints, the dealer's response, and you rights under the law:
Consumer: "I have a drivetrain problem."
Dealer: "Warranty Denied! Aftermarket parts have been fitted."
Law:The warranty is NOT void by the mere installation of aftermarket products. If the dealer insists on warranty denial, call the Federal Trade Commission at (202) 326-3128.
Consumer:"The malfunction light comes on indicating a mass air-flow sensor failure."
Dealer: "Warranty denied! An aftermarket exhaust system has been fitted."
Law: The warranty cannot be denied on the mass air-flow sensor due to the installation of an aftermarket exhaust system. If the dealer insists on warranty denial, call the Environmental Protection Agency at (202) 382-2640 .
Almost everyone has heard that the mere installation and/or use of aftermarket parts will void a vehicle manufacturer's warranty. That claim appears to know no limitations and is heralded from coast to coast with no lack of certainty. In spite of having unbridled support, however, one basic problem remains: It's not true!
In looking at the potential for violating a vehicle manufacturer's warranty, it is important to remember that there are a number of different types of warranties that may come with a new vehicle.
Express and Implied Warranties
The first is the warranty which is offered by the vehicle manufacturer. This is called an expressed warranty. This is made by the manufacturer to assume responsibility for various things which might go wrong with the new vehicle during a stated period of time, or before the vehicle has traveled a given distance.
Beyond this, however, the manufacturer is also responsible for what are referred to as implied warranties. These are not written warranties, but they exist because it is felt that if a manufacturer produces and sells a product, that product should meet certain standards. These standards are the basis of implied warranties.
Keep in mind, however, that with both expressed and implied warranties, there are circumstances where the manufacturer can be relieved of responsibility to make good on warranty claims.
Emission Warranties
The warranties we discuss most often are emission warranties. These warranties are required by, and are a direct result of, the Clean Air Act. Each of these warranties provides the consumer with certain rights and imposes on the manufacturer certain obligations. However, as in the case with expressed and implied warranties, the manufacturer may not have to fulfill those obligations under all circumstances. These are times when the manufacturer's expressed, implied and emission warranties can be voided. Let's look at when that can, and cannot, happen.
Defect Warranty
Looking first at the warranties required by the Clean Air Act, we find that there are really two warranties. The first warranty is called a defect warranty. This means the manufacturer is required to produce a vehicle, which at the time of sale did not have any "defects" that would cause it to fail to meet the required emission levels for its "useful" life, as defined by the law.
A manufacturer can be held liable for this warranty when a "defect" has indeed been found. If, for example, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) found that a large number of a particular type of vehicle was failing to maintain proper emission levels, they might determine that the failure was the result of a defect in the vehicle.
While it is unlikely, the vehicle manufacturer could seek to show that the reason for the vehicle's failure to meet emission standards is that all vehicles in question had been equipped with aftermarket parts - and those parts were responsible for the emission failure. If the vehicle manufacturer could prove his argument, it would be grounds to "void" the defect warranty.
The manufacturer could not, however, seek to void the warranty merely because aftermarket equipment had been installed on the vehicle. The aftermarket equipment would have to directly relate to the emission failure to void the warranty.
Performance Warranty
A second warranty required under the Clean Air Act is the performance warranty. Under this warranty the vehicle is required to maintain certain emission performance standards throughout its "useful" life. If the car fails to meet those requirements, the vehicle manufacturer is required to make repairs.
What could void this warranty? The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer may void the emission warranty is where the aftermarket part is responsible for the warranty claim. The vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty merely because aftermarket equipment has been installed on the vehicle.
Protection Under the Law
The law relating to the other types of warranties is similar. Federal law, regulating to one extent or another, expressed and implied warranties is very clear: That warranties may not be conditioned upon the use of the manufacturer's parts or services unless those parts or services are provided free of charge. Therefore, the expressed and implied warranties cannot be voided merely because aftermarket parts are installed on a vehicle. The warranties can be voided only where the installation of an aftermarket part is DIRECTLY responsible for that failure which gives rise to the warranty claim.
Knowledge Isn't Enough
Just knowing the law may not be enough. What happens if a vehicle dealer denies a warranty claim? If the claim is in reference to a part governed by the Clean Air Act and you believe the claim was improperly denied, a call to the EPA at (202) 382-2640 would be in order. The EPA maintains a staff that will investigate situations in which vehicle manufacturers have failed to honor warranty claims.
If the failure to honor a claim involves the new warranty, and it appears that the vehicle dealer improperly denied the claim, the matter should be raised with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128. The FTC is responsible for monitoring compliance with the warranty law. Between these two federal agencies there should be sufficient authority to work out any warranty problems.
In addition, SEMA monitors problems associated with warranty claims to ensure that vehicle dealers are not misrepresenting the law. Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) (714) 396-0289.
Aftermarket vs. Factory Warranty
In today's market, even the most ardent enthusiast might pause before making any performance modifications to a late-model, emission-controlled vehicle. One of the first considerations before "bolting-on" is the legality of any such modification.
With the performance aftermarket industry working at flank speed to develop new emission-legal performance products, it should not be too long before owners of virtually any late-model performance vehicle will be able to purchase fully emission-legal performance products.
The next major concern for anyone who has just plunked down $20 to $50K or more is: What will the addition of performance products do to the durability of my vehicle; and more importantly, will the addition of these products void my factory warranty?
On the subject of durability, performance modifications that have been engineered to meet emission standards and used prudently should not affect the overall durability of your vehicle. To clarify this, an engine that was designed to make 300 horsepower, is not likely to live as long at 400, but how often is the 400 horsepower actually utilized over, let's say, 100,000 miles? This is, in most cases, is driver related.
Common sense would dictate that the addition of a performance exhaust system should not void the factory warranty on an air conditioning unit. However when it comes to the dealer's understanding of the law, common sense might not carry the day.
To find answers to some of the warranty questions, we started our research with copies of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act of 1987, which basically defines how a warranty should be written, along with the definitions of full, limited and implied warranties.
As we started working through piles of paperwork, we contacted the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) for legal information and found that great minds think alike. SEMA had, with the help of its lawyers, just completed a brief outline of consumer's rights with regards to the addition of aftermarket performance products.
To some degree, the bottom line is good common sense. If you take a car to the service island with a tattletale boost gauge stuck at 10 psi over the rated boost pressure, and a set of fried piston rings, things could be a little hectic. On the other hand, if you have made some fairly mild modifications, and a service advisor tells you that the warranty on your car is void, you have rights under the law. As outlined in the sidebar, below are some phone numbers to call for help.
Let's take a look at a few typical customer complaints, the dealer's response, and you rights under the law:
Consumer: "I have a drivetrain problem."
Dealer: "Warranty Denied! Aftermarket parts have been fitted."
Law:The warranty is NOT void by the mere installation of aftermarket products. If the dealer insists on warranty denial, call the Federal Trade Commission at (202) 326-3128.
Consumer:"The malfunction light comes on indicating a mass air-flow sensor failure."
Dealer: "Warranty denied! An aftermarket exhaust system has been fitted."
Law: The warranty cannot be denied on the mass air-flow sensor due to the installation of an aftermarket exhaust system. If the dealer insists on warranty denial, call the Environmental Protection Agency at (202) 382-2640 .
Almost everyone has heard that the mere installation and/or use of aftermarket parts will void a vehicle manufacturer's warranty. That claim appears to know no limitations and is heralded from coast to coast with no lack of certainty. In spite of having unbridled support, however, one basic problem remains: It's not true!
In looking at the potential for violating a vehicle manufacturer's warranty, it is important to remember that there are a number of different types of warranties that may come with a new vehicle.
Express and Implied Warranties
The first is the warranty which is offered by the vehicle manufacturer. This is called an expressed warranty. This is made by the manufacturer to assume responsibility for various things which might go wrong with the new vehicle during a stated period of time, or before the vehicle has traveled a given distance.
Beyond this, however, the manufacturer is also responsible for what are referred to as implied warranties. These are not written warranties, but they exist because it is felt that if a manufacturer produces and sells a product, that product should meet certain standards. These standards are the basis of implied warranties.
Keep in mind, however, that with both expressed and implied warranties, there are circumstances where the manufacturer can be relieved of responsibility to make good on warranty claims.
Emission Warranties
The warranties we discuss most often are emission warranties. These warranties are required by, and are a direct result of, the Clean Air Act. Each of these warranties provides the consumer with certain rights and imposes on the manufacturer certain obligations. However, as in the case with expressed and implied warranties, the manufacturer may not have to fulfill those obligations under all circumstances. These are times when the manufacturer's expressed, implied and emission warranties can be voided. Let's look at when that can, and cannot, happen.
Defect Warranty
Looking first at the warranties required by the Clean Air Act, we find that there are really two warranties. The first warranty is called a defect warranty. This means the manufacturer is required to produce a vehicle, which at the time of sale did not have any "defects" that would cause it to fail to meet the required emission levels for its "useful" life, as defined by the law.
A manufacturer can be held liable for this warranty when a "defect" has indeed been found. If, for example, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) found that a large number of a particular type of vehicle was failing to maintain proper emission levels, they might determine that the failure was the result of a defect in the vehicle.
While it is unlikely, the vehicle manufacturer could seek to show that the reason for the vehicle's failure to meet emission standards is that all vehicles in question had been equipped with aftermarket parts - and those parts were responsible for the emission failure. If the vehicle manufacturer could prove his argument, it would be grounds to "void" the defect warranty.
The manufacturer could not, however, seek to void the warranty merely because aftermarket equipment had been installed on the vehicle. The aftermarket equipment would have to directly relate to the emission failure to void the warranty.
Performance Warranty
A second warranty required under the Clean Air Act is the performance warranty. Under this warranty the vehicle is required to maintain certain emission performance standards throughout its "useful" life. If the car fails to meet those requirements, the vehicle manufacturer is required to make repairs.
What could void this warranty? The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer may void the emission warranty is where the aftermarket part is responsible for the warranty claim. The vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty merely because aftermarket equipment has been installed on the vehicle.
Protection Under the Law
The law relating to the other types of warranties is similar. Federal law, regulating to one extent or another, expressed and implied warranties is very clear: That warranties may not be conditioned upon the use of the manufacturer's parts or services unless those parts or services are provided free of charge. Therefore, the expressed and implied warranties cannot be voided merely because aftermarket parts are installed on a vehicle. The warranties can be voided only where the installation of an aftermarket part is DIRECTLY responsible for that failure which gives rise to the warranty claim.
Knowledge Isn't Enough
Just knowing the law may not be enough. What happens if a vehicle dealer denies a warranty claim? If the claim is in reference to a part governed by the Clean Air Act and you believe the claim was improperly denied, a call to the EPA at (202) 382-2640 would be in order. The EPA maintains a staff that will investigate situations in which vehicle manufacturers have failed to honor warranty claims.
If the failure to honor a claim involves the new warranty, and it appears that the vehicle dealer improperly denied the claim, the matter should be raised with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128. The FTC is responsible for monitoring compliance with the warranty law. Between these two federal agencies there should be sufficient authority to work out any warranty problems.
In addition, SEMA monitors problems associated with warranty claims to ensure that vehicle dealers are not misrepresenting the law. Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) (714) 396-0289.
4/6/05 | 05:18 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: February 9, 2005
Posts: 28
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There is no HC trap on the V6. Also, the only cai out at the moment for the V6 gives about 10 rwhp without a tune, but more with a tune. They can't void his warenty for the cai, as it is against th law for them to do so. They have to be able to prove that whatever he did caused the problem in order to void the warenty.
Aftermarket vs. Factory Warranty
[/quote]
So if I did flash tune with the CAI than how much more HP would I gain? Also, so the only way for my warranty to be voided if I flash tuned would be if there was damaged caused by the flash tuning right?
Aftermarket vs. Factory Warranty
[/quote]
So if I did flash tune with the CAI than how much more HP would I gain? Also, so the only way for my warranty to be voided if I flash tuned would be if there was damaged caused by the flash tuning right?
4/7/05 | 09:49 AM
#8
Team Mustang Source
Joined: August 2, 2004
Posts: 347
Likes: 1
A CAi combined with a reflash of oyur CPU should net you 15-20 hp. The CPU is one of the things I would be careful about though, as a lot of dealers will try o give you trouble if you mess with anything in there. It all depends on the dealer though. Some are jerks about everything, and some don't care about adding aftermarket stuff.
4/9/05 | 08:16 AM
#11
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 186
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the modification of any system on an auto needs to be carefully considered as to what gains will be realized in performance, or another way to put it: will you be better off after the mods than you were before, regarding power increases.
the only sure way to know what kind of power increases will be realized with any mod is to have what is known as a power graph for that component, especially ehaust, intake and cam mods. any reputable manufacturer of any of these components will provide you with the pg. without seeing the pg you don't know where in the power band the extra power is being made. in most cases, what you make in the upper end of the rpm range, you lose in the bottom end and that is where most of your driving is done: 1500-4000 rpm. intake mods and exhaust mods are notorious for DECREASING the power at lower rpm's.
another bit of info to consider: the oil used in the low restriction filter systems can cause driveability problems and even a no start condition with some engine management computers on some cars. is this the case with the mustang? i can't say, but as i said; it's something to consider.
with exhasut mods, something to consider is the change in backpressure. it will alter the power band and generally move the extra power made up in the rpm range and once again, the engine will actually make LESS power down on the bottom of the power band. is this what you want for a street car? maybe it is, but again, these are things to consider. any reputable manufacturer of an exhaust system will provide you with a power graph for the system...if they won't provide you with one, then that should be a wake-up call for what they're trying to sell you...can you say snake oil? jackg 90seville 96k
the only sure way to know what kind of power increases will be realized with any mod is to have what is known as a power graph for that component, especially ehaust, intake and cam mods. any reputable manufacturer of any of these components will provide you with the pg. without seeing the pg you don't know where in the power band the extra power is being made. in most cases, what you make in the upper end of the rpm range, you lose in the bottom end and that is where most of your driving is done: 1500-4000 rpm. intake mods and exhaust mods are notorious for DECREASING the power at lower rpm's.
another bit of info to consider: the oil used in the low restriction filter systems can cause driveability problems and even a no start condition with some engine management computers on some cars. is this the case with the mustang? i can't say, but as i said; it's something to consider.
with exhasut mods, something to consider is the change in backpressure. it will alter the power band and generally move the extra power made up in the rpm range and once again, the engine will actually make LESS power down on the bottom of the power band. is this what you want for a street car? maybe it is, but again, these are things to consider. any reputable manufacturer of an exhaust system will provide you with a power graph for the system...if they won't provide you with one, then that should be a wake-up call for what they're trying to sell you...can you say snake oil? jackg 90seville 96k
4/24/05 | 01:19 PM
#12
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Joined: April 23, 2005
Posts: 21
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Have a good friend who is the Service Manager at a GM dealer. We got into this discussion regarding after market mods. He showed me a bulletin that was interesting. Has anyone heard of this from the Ford side?
SERVICE - ALL BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GMC TRUCK, ISUZU, OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC AND HUMMER DEALERS
Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and 2003-2004 HUMMER H2
Message #: VSS20040056
Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on March 18, 2004.
Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES)
Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter
Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2
DO THIS
First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively oiled air filter
DON'T DO THIS
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.
The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may result in:
1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
2. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
3. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and 2003-2004 HUMMER H2
Message #: VSS20040056
Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on March 18, 2004.
Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES)
Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter
Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2
DO THIS
First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively oiled air filter
DON'T DO THIS
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.
The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may result in:
1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
2. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
3. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
4/24/05 | 02:02 PM
#13
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Joined: April 6, 2004
Posts: 873
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I would liek to know who here has installed a K&N filter in their cars yet. I have heard mention of the oil on the filter messign up the engine and would liek to know if anyone has had any trouble. I do knotice that this memo is for cars 2004 and prior, not 2005's, also they keep using the word "EXCESSIVELY", as the instructiosn state, do not over oil the filter.
4/25/05 | 09:45 AM
#16
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Joined: December 28, 2004
Posts: 100
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Originally posted by yur1279@April 24, 2005, 1:05 PM
I would liek to know who here has installed a K&N filter in their cars yet. I have heard mention of the oil on the filter messign up the engine and would liek to know if anyone has had any trouble. I do knotice that this memo is for cars 2004 and prior, not 2005's, also they keep using the word "EXCESSIVELY", as the instructiosn state, do not over oil the filter.
I would liek to know who here has installed a K&N filter in their cars yet. I have heard mention of the oil on the filter messign up the engine and would liek to know if anyone has had any trouble. I do knotice that this memo is for cars 2004 and prior, not 2005's, also they keep using the word "EXCESSIVELY", as the instructiosn state, do not over oil the filter.
yur1279: I've had a K&N in my Mustang for a couple of weeks and no problems... BUT, I'll sell it to you for a great price and pay the shipping if you're interested. I'm going with a CAI setup.
4/25/05 | 11:31 AM
#17
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Joined: December 22, 2004
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Originally posted by justgreat@April 9, 2005, 8:19 AM
...with exhasut mods, something to consider is the change in backpressure. it will alter the power band and generally move the extra power made up in the rpm range and once again, the engine will actually make LESS power down on the bottom of the power band. is this what you want for a street car? maybe it is, but again, these are things to consider. any reputable manufacturer of an exhaust system will provide you with a power graph for the system...if they won't provide you with one, then that should be a wake-up call for what they're trying to sell you...can you say snake oil? jackg 90seville 96k
...with exhasut mods, something to consider is the change in backpressure. it will alter the power band and generally move the extra power made up in the rpm range and once again, the engine will actually make LESS power down on the bottom of the power band. is this what you want for a street car? maybe it is, but again, these are things to consider. any reputable manufacturer of an exhaust system will provide you with a power graph for the system...if they won't provide you with one, then that should be a wake-up call for what they're trying to sell you...can you say snake oil? jackg 90seville 96k
Ive always thought it was better to make power higher in the RPM range. You can always compensate down low with a set of gears. And you're absolutely right, always get a graph when you can.. side by side comparison couldnt be easier.
4/26/05 | 05:03 AM
#18
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 186
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regarding the k/n filter: i recently cleaned and oiled the k/n filter, using the prescribed cleaning and oiling procedure set forth by the manfr and i had driveability problems in my 86 honda 700c MOTORCYCLE after reinstalling the cleaned filter. the induction system and the plugs were very sensitive to the amount of oil applied to the filter. i can assure you that the filter was not "dripping with oil" by any means and i needed to take the filter out and let it sit overnight to "breath". i reinstalled it the next day (there was no excess oil on the paper underneath the filter) and the motor cleared itself out and is now fine.
i did some follow up research and sure enough, the motor is quite sensitive to the amount of oil on the filtration element. now, this is a non fuel injected engine with no catalyst: this should be some cause for concern before installing some after market part on your vehicle.
by the way, i bought the k/n when i originally purchased the bike back in 86'...before i got hip to using non oem parts. jackg 90seville 96k
i did some follow up research and sure enough, the motor is quite sensitive to the amount of oil on the filtration element. now, this is a non fuel injected engine with no catalyst: this should be some cause for concern before installing some after market part on your vehicle.
by the way, i bought the k/n when i originally purchased the bike back in 86'...before i got hip to using non oem parts. jackg 90seville 96k
4/26/05 | 05:12 AM
#19
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Joined: May 22, 2004
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sorry for the ongoing post: what i have found regarding the shifting of the power band by the use of aftermatker induction and exhaust systems was the initial response of the engine was diminished by the changes that i made (76 alfa romeo 2.0 4 cylinder twin cam). right off idle, up to 2200 rpm or so there was a hole in the power band. at that rpm range there is no lower gear...i'm already in 1st . now, the induction system was quite well engineered: inside the k/n filter which was huge compared to the stock filter there were four individual steel air horns which absolutely helped the top end of the rev range but for around town it was a dog compared to the oem setup.
these are just my experiences with after market mods and may have no bearing on the 4.0 cologne...just some food for thought. jackg 90seville 96k
these are just my experiences with after market mods and may have no bearing on the 4.0 cologne...just some food for thought. jackg 90seville 96k
4/26/05 | 12:17 PM
#20
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Joined: April 26, 2005
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I would like to know who determines if the filter is excessively oiled 
Obviously this will be used as an excuse for dealers to not warranty items. Someone should forward that letter to SEMA and K&N. On the other hand I know I have seen more than my fair share of over oiled filters in the past, and yes any oil, or other contaminents on the MAF will cause it to go bad.
Obviously this will be used as an excuse for dealers to not warranty items. Someone should forward that letter to SEMA and K&N. On the other hand I know I have seen more than my fair share of over oiled filters in the past, and yes any oil, or other contaminents on the MAF will cause it to go bad.