My automatic hits 200RRWHP N/A!
1/28/06, 06:10 PM
#41
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Originally posted by MSP@January 28, 2006, 4:36 PM
Not with the Pro-Chamber Scrming... This is what I have been trying to point out to everyone for so long.. The Pro-Chamber, based on its design, does allow more gases to shoot by un-scavenged at higher RPMS like an XPIPE or an HPIPE will... The Prochamber dumps all gases no matter the rpm into a chamber.. This ensures that 100% of all gases get hot enough by the time they exit the chamber, thus no high rpm rice sound...
This is the essence of my die-hard Prochamber speech.. What I ave been trying to inform everyone of...
Not with the Pro-Chamber Scrming... This is what I have been trying to point out to everyone for so long.. The Pro-Chamber, based on its design, does allow more gases to shoot by un-scavenged at higher RPMS like an XPIPE or an HPIPE will... The Prochamber dumps all gases no matter the rpm into a chamber.. This ensures that 100% of all gases get hot enough by the time they exit the chamber, thus no high rpm rice sound...
This is the essence of my die-hard Prochamber speech.. What I ave been trying to inform everyone of...
MSP, you are our resident authority on the Prochamber. Can you forward or link some information so that I can make an informed decision on an exhaust upgrade when I install a TC (next year). Right now, I believe that an H or an X will be fine, and I can put them on inexpensively and easily. When I am pushing 7, 9, or 12 PSI, I will want the best, and it will be easy to do when I am already running duals. Thanks!
1/28/06, 06:51 PM
#42
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The prochamber was originally designed to be a crossover of the X&H. Best of both worlds, and then some in the sound dept. It will give a good flow, great exhaust pulse balance, not to mention a great deep sound.
1/28/06, 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by ManEHawke@January 28, 2006, 9:54 PM
The prochamber was originally designed to be a crossover of the X&H. Best of both worlds, and then some in the sound dept. It will give a good flow, great exhaust pulse balance, not to mention a great deep sound.
The prochamber was originally designed to be a crossover of the X&H. Best of both worlds, and then some in the sound dept. It will give a good flow, great exhaust pulse balance, not to mention a great deep sound.
1/28/06, 07:06 PM
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It's one open chamber where the pulses are all met, they then are all merged inside, and actually from what I was told, come out of the chamber in a slightly higher velocity than they came in. Kind of like a venturi effect.
1/28/06, 07:23 PM
#45
Originally posted by scrming@January 28, 2006, 3:35 PM
Ok guys... Fresh new videos! Enjoy!!!
From Behind
From the Front
From Inside (windows up!)
Ok guys... Fresh new videos! Enjoy!!!
From Behind
From the Front
From Inside (windows up!)
Thank you!
1/28/06, 07:39 PM
#47
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Scrming, would you ever get your tranny rebuilt with kevlar bands and clutch packs.
my buddy went crazy (I mean really crazy) on shift pressures and detiriorated his paper clutches. We rebuild it with a kevlar frction material, and now his crazy pressures hold up really well.
His is a Trans-Am though, but with only that he went from 13.3 to a 12.9, so I would assume it could possibly do something positive for this auto
my buddy went crazy (I mean really crazy) on shift pressures and detiriorated his paper clutches. We rebuild it with a kevlar frction material, and now his crazy pressures hold up really well.
His is a Trans-Am though, but with only that he went from 13.3 to a 12.9, so I would assume it could possibly do something positive for this auto
1/28/06, 09:22 PM
#48
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Originally posted by ManEHawke@January 28, 2006, 9:42 PM
Scrming, would you ever get your tranny rebuilt with kevlar bands and clutch packs.
my buddy went crazy (I mean really crazy) on shift pressures and detiriorated his paper clutches. We rebuild it with a kevlar frction material, and now his crazy pressures hold up really well.
His is a Trans-Am though, but with only that he went from 13.3 to a 12.9, so I would assume it could possibly do something positive for this auto
Scrming, would you ever get your tranny rebuilt with kevlar bands and clutch packs.
my buddy went crazy (I mean really crazy) on shift pressures and detiriorated his paper clutches. We rebuild it with a kevlar frction material, and now his crazy pressures hold up really well.
His is a Trans-Am though, but with only that he went from 13.3 to a 12.9, so I would assume it could possibly do something positive for this auto
I just learned how a torque convertor works... I haven't studied up on how the auto tranny actually works... LOL!
1/28/06, 10:53 PM
#49
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I just watched the video where you fly by the recorder! MAN! That muffler just screams "PERFORMANCE!" The performance sound is what I am after. As mentioned before, I wonder what two of those would do for the car?
1/29/06, 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by ManEHawke@January 28, 2006, 6:09 PM
It's one open chamber where the pulses are all met, they then are all merged inside, and actually from what I was told, come out of the chamber in a slightly higher velocity than they came in. Kind of like a venturi effect.
It's one open chamber where the pulses are all met, they then are all merged inside, and actually from what I was told, come out of the chamber in a slightly higher velocity than they came in. Kind of like a venturi effect.
ManEHawke has done a great job with explanations.. But let me try an explain alittle more..
The magic of the ProChamber, and consistant deep tones at all RPMS is simple...
Lets take an HPIPE first... You first have the H... Now I want you to actually look at this H I will make bold....H.... Now the cross-over is actually the - of the HPIPE... Now at low rpm, the sound is good, because the exhaust is moving at a slower pace... This means most of the exhaust is able to heat up to a certain point, so that by the time it exits the tail pipe, its at a certain temperature, which produces a certain frequency of sound... So think of the hotter the temp, the deeper the sound.. The temp heats up, as gasses smash against each other.. Typically from one bank of the engine, to the other bank... So now looking at the H you will notice that as the rpms increase, a certain amount of these gases will slip by the - without making any type of collision with the gasses from the opposing bank.. Since the temprature of these gases escape at a lower temp, when they exit the tail pipe, the frequency is higher than the others.. So think the cooler the temp, the higher frequency the sound created once it exits the tail pipe.. So @ WOT, the sound will tend to lose its deeper tone, because more gases are getting by the - without being heated up... The XPIPE works in somewhat the same way, but the X forces the gases to atleast crash into each other first... Look at this X.. Now in this picture you can see that 100% of all gases must atleast collide momentarily with each other before they exit the tail pipe..
Now lets take the ProChamber... With the Prochamber, all the gasses are forced into a rectangular box first.. They must bounce off the 4 corners of the box until they find an exit path, which is the 2 outlets opposite the inlets... Now at a higher RPM, the situation is maintained, because the gases must still be dumped into the chamber, and bounce off 4 walls, and then exit... So what happens in the prochamber is the exhaust gases no matter what the rpm is, are much hotter by the time they find an escape route.. Where the X and H set a clear path for exit or escape, the Prochamber does not.. So there is no way for gases to escape easily.. They must bounce and collide much longer before exit..
This helps in 2 ways.. This improves Backpressure of the exhaust, and also makes sure that all gases reach a certain temp before you hear them..
I think what is happening in Scrmings new muffler is the muffler design has been made to hold the exhaust gases inside the tube much longer than normal mufflers.. Thus he is able to have a Y pipe, which sounds as if he has a cross-over in the system.. This is why the tone is so deep with his muffler.. Its actually an awsome muffler... I can only imagine how it would sound with a Prochamber, with the gases being held and heated up at 2 point in the system.. Meaning they are first heated up in the Prochamber, then as they travel down the exhaust pipe, they somewhat cool off, only to encounter another point at which they are slightly heated again upon their exit...
Let me also say this in reagrds to the X and H pipes.... The reason the H pipe is typically deeper in tone than the X is because the H when you look at it, does have a place where gases can continue to bounce back in forth in the Crossover.. - Look at this H Look at the - in the H.. In the -, you can see how the H is able to keep a certain amount of exhaust gasses trapped inside the - before the are eventually forced out onto either side of the H.... With the X you can see how there is really no where for the gases to bounce back in forth.. They basically just have a huge collision in the center of the X and then are forced out...
1/29/06, 05:28 AM
#51
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On a side note, if I were given the task to design a really good Prochamber for our V6's it would be made like this..
The inlets of the Prochamber would be 3 inches in diameter... The Outlets of the Pro-Chamber would be 2.25 inches in diameter for about 12 to 18 inches.. Then the piping would open back up to 2.5 inches in diameter..
This would allow the V6 to dump and force more exhaust into the Prochamber initially, causing a the heat to be elevated even higher... The 2.25 section would help with backpressure, and the 2.5" section would help to quickly move out the heated exhaust to the tail pipe...
A prochamber is actually easy to make if you have all the right equipment.. Maybe at some point in the future I will pursue this theory..
So of course this would mean using 3 inch piping from the headers back to the Prochamber first... So the CATS would also have to be 3 inch cats...
The inlets of the Prochamber would be 3 inches in diameter... The Outlets of the Pro-Chamber would be 2.25 inches in diameter for about 12 to 18 inches.. Then the piping would open back up to 2.5 inches in diameter..
This would allow the V6 to dump and force more exhaust into the Prochamber initially, causing a the heat to be elevated even higher... The 2.25 section would help with backpressure, and the 2.5" section would help to quickly move out the heated exhaust to the tail pipe...
A prochamber is actually easy to make if you have all the right equipment.. Maybe at some point in the future I will pursue this theory..
So of course this would mean using 3 inch piping from the headers back to the Prochamber first... So the CATS would also have to be 3 inch cats...
1/29/06, 06:46 AM
#52
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Originally posted by MSP@January 29, 2006, 7:06 AM
<snip>
I think what is happening in Scrmings new muffler is the muffler design has been made to hold the exhaust gases inside the tube much longer than normal mufflers.. Thus he is able to have a Y pipe, which sounds as if he has a cross-over in the system.. This is why the tone is so deep with his muffler.. Its actually an awsome muffler... I can only imagine how it would sound with a Prochamber, with the gases being held and heated up at 2 point in the system.. Meaning they are first heated up in the Prochamber, then as they travel down the exhaust pipe, they somewhat cool off, only to encounter another point at which they are slightly heated again upon their exit...
<snip>
<snip>
I think what is happening in Scrmings new muffler is the muffler design has been made to hold the exhaust gases inside the tube much longer than normal mufflers.. Thus he is able to have a Y pipe, which sounds as if he has a cross-over in the system.. This is why the tone is so deep with his muffler.. Its actually an awsome muffler... I can only imagine how it would sound with a Prochamber, with the gases being held and heated up at 2 point in the system.. Meaning they are first heated up in the Prochamber, then as they travel down the exhaust pipe, they somewhat cool off, only to encounter another point at which they are slightly heated again upon their exit...
<snip>
Actually they talk about cooling the gases down (which helps engine life?) and speeding up the "outside" gases to create a vacum to help further speed up the gases (super duty scavaging???) I watch there their "how it works video" a couple of months ago and just thought is was one of the "too good to be true" info-mmercial things... CALL NOW! LOL! So you can imagine my surprise when this thing really works! And works well! LOL!
1/29/06, 06:50 AM
#53
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Originally posted by Excepcion13@January 29, 2006, 12:56 AM
I just watched the video where you fly by the recorder! MAN! That muffler just screams "PERFORMANCE!" The performance sound is what I am after. As mentioned before, I wonder what two of those would do for the car?
I just watched the video where you fly by the recorder! MAN! That muffler just screams "PERFORMANCE!" The performance sound is what I am after. As mentioned before, I wonder what two of those would do for the car?
BTW... the wife is started to get slightly annoyed with me playing the video clips over and over!!! LOL
1/29/06, 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by MSP@January 29, 2006, 8:06 AM
Yes, I have looked inside my ProChamber, and it is an open space, with 2x 2.5" inlets, and 2x 2.5" outlets..
The magic of the ProChamber, and consistant deep tones at all RPMS is simple...
Now lets take the ProChamber... With the Prochamber, all the gasses are forced into a rectangular box first.. They must bounce off the 4 corners of the box until they find an exit path, which is the 2 outlets opposite the inlets... Now at a higher RPM, the situation is maintained, because the gases must still be dumped into the chamber, and bounce off 4 walls, and then exit... So what happens in the prochamber is the exhaust gases no matter what the rpm is, are much hotter by the time they find an escape route.. Where the X and H set a clear path for exit or escape, the Prochamber does not.. So there is no way for gases to escape easily.. They must bounce and collide much longer before exit..
This helps in 2 ways.. This improves Backpressure of the exhaust, and also makes sure that all gases reach a certain temp before you hear them..
Yes, I have looked inside my ProChamber, and it is an open space, with 2x 2.5" inlets, and 2x 2.5" outlets..
The magic of the ProChamber, and consistant deep tones at all RPMS is simple...
Now lets take the ProChamber... With the Prochamber, all the gasses are forced into a rectangular box first.. They must bounce off the 4 corners of the box until they find an exit path, which is the 2 outlets opposite the inlets... Now at a higher RPM, the situation is maintained, because the gases must still be dumped into the chamber, and bounce off 4 walls, and then exit... So what happens in the prochamber is the exhaust gases no matter what the rpm is, are much hotter by the time they find an escape route.. Where the X and H set a clear path for exit or escape, the Prochamber does not.. So there is no way for gases to escape easily.. They must bounce and collide much longer before exit..
This helps in 2 ways.. This improves Backpressure of the exhaust, and also makes sure that all gases reach a certain temp before you hear them..
I wasn't sure WHAT was in there. Someone told me it is an X in a box, etc. so i was a little confused. Thanks, again, for the explanation.
So, basically, the Prochamber will improve tone and also keep the backpressure up, which is exactly what our V6's need.
1/29/06, 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by scrming@January 29, 2006, 9:53 AM
I'll definitely be passing your comment on to Scott... because that is exactly what to told me he was shooting for by using this muffler... Again I'm paraphrasing here... but his thoughts on were something like "We know we can't replicate that big V-8 sound so lets go for a really good performance sports car sound..." And by the positive comments I'm seeing here I think that's exactly what this muffler has!
BTW... the wife is started to get slightly annoyed with me playing the video clips over and over!!! LOL
I'll definitely be passing your comment on to Scott... because that is exactly what to told me he was shooting for by using this muffler... Again I'm paraphrasing here... but his thoughts on were something like "We know we can't replicate that big V-8 sound so lets go for a really good performance sports car sound..." And by the positive comments I'm seeing here I think that's exactly what this muffler has!
BTW... the wife is started to get slightly annoyed with me playing the video clips over and over!!! LOL
1/29/06, 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by scrming@January 29, 2006, 5:49 AM
Here is there "how it works" stuff: http://www.aero-turbine.com/how/index.html
Actually they talk about cooling the gases down (which helps engine life?) and speeding up the "outside" gases to create a vacum to help further speed up the gases (super duty scavaging???) I watch there their "how it works video" a couple of months ago and just thought is was one of the "too good to be true" info-mmercial things... CALL NOW! LOL! So you can imagine my surprise when this thing really works! And works well! LOL!
Here is there "how it works" stuff: http://www.aero-turbine.com/how/index.html
Actually they talk about cooling the gases down (which helps engine life?) and speeding up the "outside" gases to create a vacum to help further speed up the gases (super duty scavaging???) I watch there their "how it works video" a couple of months ago and just thought is was one of the "too good to be true" info-mmercial things... CALL NOW! LOL! So you can imagine my surprise when this thing really works! And works well! LOL!
Definatley something I will explore in the future.. This is a really good product...
1/29/06, 06:14 PM
#58
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Scrming, just got a chance to watch the vids.
Very nice. I had to watch them over and over again too.
Man, that sounds great! I love it. That is definitely the sound of a performance car.
Too bad I don't have the $$ right now for one of those. I'd love to have one. Maybe after I get my tax refund.
Thanks for giving me a new mod to put on my list!
Very nice. I had to watch them over and over again too.
Man, that sounds great! I love it. That is definitely the sound of a performance car.
Too bad I don't have the $$ right now for one of those. I'd love to have one. Maybe after I get my tax refund.
Thanks for giving me a new mod to put on my list!
1/29/06, 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Fazm@January 29, 2006, 9:59 AM
Id rather sound like a fast v6 then a slow (stock) v8 anyday of the week
Id rather sound like a fast v6 then a slow (stock) v8 anyday of the week
1/30/06, 07:26 PM
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Ok... I talked with Scott today....
First and formost... Pricing... I know some of you may be upset with this... I don't know if I can explain it as well as Scott did but here goes...
Scott does not do group buys or special discounting. His company's (MRT) goal is to bring us high quality performance parts at an already discounted price. The prices we see are as low as MRT can really afford to make them and still stay in business... Scott is a genuine Mustang Enthusiast... I mean he eats, sleeps and breathes Mustangs! He really is trying to bring us fellow enthusiasts those performance parts we crave with out breaking the bank! Example is this exhuast... $225 for the MRT vs the $270 I paid for the Magnflow... If someone had shown me the video and dyno sheet that I posted I would have glady paid more for the MRT than I did for the Magnaflow.... I mean Scott could have easily marked his muffler up to $280, $290... maybe even $300 and then given us a 10% discount and charged us $250 to $270 and we'ld be happy... Instead he priced the muffler at $225...
So... take it for what it's worth... but for me I believe Scott and MRT is a great source for us!
Now... we also talked about using the MRT in a dual configuration on our cars. Scott is not 100% positive that there would be any gain by going to the dual over the single. He's also concerned that by splitting the exhaust and using 2 MRT mufflers that you could end up with a thinner sound... more like a tuner car... ( That's Scott being politically correct... LOL)
For me... I'm happy with the single... and by staying with the single, I save enough money for my next secret project! LOL!
First and formost... Pricing... I know some of you may be upset with this... I don't know if I can explain it as well as Scott did but here goes...
Scott does not do group buys or special discounting. His company's (MRT) goal is to bring us high quality performance parts at an already discounted price. The prices we see are as low as MRT can really afford to make them and still stay in business... Scott is a genuine Mustang Enthusiast... I mean he eats, sleeps and breathes Mustangs! He really is trying to bring us fellow enthusiasts those performance parts we crave with out breaking the bank! Example is this exhuast... $225 for the MRT vs the $270 I paid for the Magnflow... If someone had shown me the video and dyno sheet that I posted I would have glady paid more for the MRT than I did for the Magnaflow.... I mean Scott could have easily marked his muffler up to $280, $290... maybe even $300 and then given us a 10% discount and charged us $250 to $270 and we'ld be happy... Instead he priced the muffler at $225...
So... take it for what it's worth... but for me I believe Scott and MRT is a great source for us!
Now... we also talked about using the MRT in a dual configuration on our cars. Scott is not 100% positive that there would be any gain by going to the dual over the single. He's also concerned that by splitting the exhaust and using 2 MRT mufflers that you could end up with a thinner sound... more like a tuner car... ( That's Scott being politically correct... LOL)
For me... I'm happy with the single... and by staying with the single, I save enough money for my next secret project! LOL!