JBA Cat4ward® Headers
1/3/06, 08:38 PM
#1
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Has anybody tried JBA Cat4ward® Headers with just the stock exhaust and muffler. I think it would be interesting to know the dyno results of just the headers alone versus totally stock. Also might be interesting to know what the difference in sound is from just the headers alone running through the stock exhaust system.
It seems like a big mystery as to how much exhaust modifications actually help on these 4.0 motors. I would really like to see dyno results on how much of a difference various exhaust mods alone actually make.
I dont even have a mustang yet and am not even sure on whether to get a GT or the V6. But I do find it intriguing to make the V6 faster, sort of like building a small block that could run against the big blocks back in the sixties.
It seems like a big mystery as to how much exhaust modifications actually help on these 4.0 motors. I would really like to see dyno results on how much of a difference various exhaust mods alone actually make.
I dont even have a mustang yet and am not even sure on whether to get a GT or the V6. But I do find it intriguing to make the V6 faster, sort of like building a small block that could run against the big blocks back in the sixties.
1/3/06, 08:43 PM
#2
Originally posted by Frank Bullitt@January 3, 2006, 10:41 PM
Has anybody tried JBA Cat4ward® Headers with just the stock exhaust and muffler. I think it would be interesting to know the dyno results of just the headers alone versus totally stock. Also might be interesting to know what the difference in sound is from just the headers alone running through the stock exhaust system.
It seems like a big mystery as to how much exhaust modifications actually help on these 4.0 motors. I would really like to see dyno results on how much of a difference various exhaust mods alone actually make.
I dont even have a mustang yet and am not even sure on whether to get a GT or the V6. But I do find it intriguing to make the V6 faster, sort of like building a small block that could run against the big blocks back in the sixties.
Has anybody tried JBA Cat4ward® Headers with just the stock exhaust and muffler. I think it would be interesting to know the dyno results of just the headers alone versus totally stock. Also might be interesting to know what the difference in sound is from just the headers alone running through the stock exhaust system.
It seems like a big mystery as to how much exhaust modifications actually help on these 4.0 motors. I would really like to see dyno results on how much of a difference various exhaust mods alone actually make.
I dont even have a mustang yet and am not even sure on whether to get a GT or the V6. But I do find it intriguing to make the V6 faster, sort of like building a small block that could run against the big blocks back in the sixties.
I'm in the process of getting my Y pipe switched with a pro chamber and dyno'd to see if duals help at all with the 4.0. Serveral think they do not unless you are running insane power adders. But it is still an open debate and a couple of us committed to dynos. Excepcion13 said he will go with MAC LT's and a MAC Prochamber and get dynos for that setup for us.
It is fun to build a sleeper out of these 6's. What else would you like to know about the new 6 bangers?
1/3/06, 11:24 PM
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hey.... I had a singleGT take-off muffler when I first installed the jba headers. Sounded really good! If you're going with headers, I'd at least go with a higher flowing single axle-back.. like the ford racing (borla) or the jba single.
Here's a clip with the headers and the GT muffler
http://www.transcendingtouch.com/mustang/0...r_JBAheader.mp3
The sound difference really suprised me... it's much more aggressive and louder than stock. Sorry... haven't done a dyno yet.
Here's a clip with the headers and the GT muffler
http://www.transcendingtouch.com/mustang/0...r_JBAheader.mp3
The sound difference really suprised me... it's much more aggressive and louder than stock. Sorry... haven't done a dyno yet.
1/15/06, 03:33 AM
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I don't think the shorties would make much of a difference. In order to really improve HP the headers have to use tubes that are all the same length from each cylinder to the exhaust. This allows for maximum airflow from the engine which results in HP gains. The way the engine is layed-out in relation to the exhaust, in the V-6, there is no way to even out the pipe length in the exhaust manifold. The forward cylinders are more than a foot farther away from the exhaust than the rear cylinders, and the shorties just don't have enough length, or room in the engine compartment, to correct this no matter how they bend them. Just compare your stock manifolds with pictures of the JBAs and you can see that they don't come close to evening out the pipe length.
1/15/06, 06:31 AM
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How about dyno results that prove exactly what each exhaust modification does, whether it actually helps performance or not.
Seems to be rather little verifiable evidence of what various benefits or liabilities exhaust modifications actually have for the 4.0 V6 in these mustangs.
I would be happy to see what full length headers and an h-pipe dual system does to an otherwise stock 4.0 mustang with a 5-speed manual. Comparing this to the shorty headers would be interesting.
If I already had a mustang I would first put about 6 to 10 thousand miles on it and then get a baseline dyno along with good gas mileage records.
Next put the full length headers and h-pipe with no other mods and then get dyno results for this along with gas mileage. Then start playing around with induction tuning modifications. Dyno/gas mileage for each change.
If this was done carefully, I think it would make a great technical article for a major performance automotive publication and would provide V6 owners the information to get a good sounding exhaust with the maximum performance with the lowest cost. If it proves that headers and duals do not help or actually hurt performance then why spend the money just for aesthetics ?
Problem is I dont have a 4.0 Mustang yet and still dont know whether I want a GT or not. To me the advantage to the V6 is initial cost, gas mileage and insurance. I can afford either, but I always consider cost of anything.
Seems to be rather little verifiable evidence of what various benefits or liabilities exhaust modifications actually have for the 4.0 V6 in these mustangs.
I would be happy to see what full length headers and an h-pipe dual system does to an otherwise stock 4.0 mustang with a 5-speed manual. Comparing this to the shorty headers would be interesting.
If I already had a mustang I would first put about 6 to 10 thousand miles on it and then get a baseline dyno along with good gas mileage records.
Next put the full length headers and h-pipe with no other mods and then get dyno results for this along with gas mileage. Then start playing around with induction tuning modifications. Dyno/gas mileage for each change.
If this was done carefully, I think it would make a great technical article for a major performance automotive publication and would provide V6 owners the information to get a good sounding exhaust with the maximum performance with the lowest cost. If it proves that headers and duals do not help or actually hurt performance then why spend the money just for aesthetics ?
Problem is I dont have a 4.0 Mustang yet and still dont know whether I want a GT or not. To me the advantage to the V6 is initial cost, gas mileage and insurance. I can afford either, but I always consider cost of anything.
1/15/06, 11:26 AM
#8
Originally posted by T-stang@January 15, 2006, 6:36 AM
I don't think the shorties would make much of a difference. In order to really improve HP the headers have to use tubes that are all the same length from each cylinder to the exhaust. This allows for maximum airflow from the engine which results in HP gains. The way the engine is layed-out in relation to the exhaust, in the V-6, there is no way to even out the pipe length in the exhaust manifold. The forward cylinders are more than a foot farther away from the exhaust than the rear cylinders, and the shorties just don't have enough length, or room in the engine compartment, to correct this no matter how they bend them. Just compare your stock manifolds with pictures of the JBAs and you can see that they don't come close to evening out the pipe length.
I don't think the shorties would make much of a difference. In order to really improve HP the headers have to use tubes that are all the same length from each cylinder to the exhaust. This allows for maximum airflow from the engine which results in HP gains. The way the engine is layed-out in relation to the exhaust, in the V-6, there is no way to even out the pipe length in the exhaust manifold. The forward cylinders are more than a foot farther away from the exhaust than the rear cylinders, and the shorties just don't have enough length, or room in the engine compartment, to correct this no matter how they bend them. Just compare your stock manifolds with pictures of the JBAs and you can see that they don't come close to evening out the pipe length.
1/15/06, 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by scrming@January 15, 2006, 10:16 AM
The problem is the stock muffler is incredibly restrictive... i don't you would see any gains with out replacing it first...
The problem is the stock muffler is incredibly restrictive... i don't you would see any gains with out replacing it first...
More than dyno numbers, I would really like to know what headers and exhaust do to the ET.
It seems like it is hard to find much dyno results here or anywhere else for specific exhaust changes. I have seen results, I think it was for JBA headers and exhaust system on a 4.0 Ranger with a considerable gain.
The last time I had a muscle car was back in the 70's, it was pretty much accepted that the first thing to do was headers and exhaust, even had cutoffs on my 1966 Mustang K Code 289 GT. Then it was big 4 barrel or 3 deuces carburetors and radical cams. But without a good exhaust the rest was wasted.
I would think that the headers and pipes would allow all the other mods to work better. But I have seen it suggested that even duals could in fact hurt these 4.0 motors rather than help.
We didnt do much dyno stuff when I was racing, the results were proven when your car smoked another car that it couldnt the day before or the quarter mile et at the strip went down.
1/15/06, 08:20 PM
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Zodiac ran some pretty quick ets in the 1/8th with his dual exhaust work, so i dont think it hurts the performance at all, im sure it helps if anything, especially in the higher rpms.
1/30/06, 12:48 AM
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@Frank:
I agree, and I like the way you think! Headers and exhaust were always the first and most impressive mod you could make! Then you dialed-in the rest. I too have looked, but have not found dynos for exhaust mods that include headers. Catalytic converters have probably changed things a bit, but I still believe 20-30 hp could be had with the right header/exhaust/mufffler combination. Then you could see what a CAI and a tune have to offer.
@BlackLX:
I am going to look up those Mac shorties.
I agree, and I like the way you think! Headers and exhaust were always the first and most impressive mod you could make! Then you dialed-in the rest. I too have looked, but have not found dynos for exhaust mods that include headers. Catalytic converters have probably changed things a bit, but I still believe 20-30 hp could be had with the right header/exhaust/mufffler combination. Then you could see what a CAI and a tune have to offer.
@BlackLX:
I am going to look up those Mac shorties.
1/30/06, 09:45 AM
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5.0 Mustang dyno'd the JBA headers and muffler this month - got 17hp.
http://www.50mustangandsuperfords.com/toc/thismonth/
"Six Toys" - it's not online, though.
http://www.50mustangandsuperfords.com/toc/thismonth/
"Six Toys" - it's not online, though.
1/30/06, 11:11 AM
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You are preaching to the choir, Frank! We wish the same thing. However, since wishing really hard didn't make our cars any faster, we all decided to modify our cars and share our knowledge in this forum. But it is the uncertainty and pioneer spirit that makes all of this so much more worthwhile and exciting. There are no experts here. Most of us are just willing to take some chances with our Ponies and sink our money into performance parts we are not sure will pay off.
As far as dyno results, there are some out there. Most of us dyno our cars after modding more than one thing. Dyno runs are not cheap.
To my knowledge, there has not been a definitive A vs B vs C vs A for our exhaust options anywhere. We are slowly learning and sharing what we learn here. But it is undeniable that you can get gains by just replacing the stock muffler. I am going dual on the 20th of February. If my numbers suffer, I will continue to tinker with it. I will keep you posted.
A year from now, someone will be able to log in and get the skinny on all fo the best mods. But until then, we will have to do the best we can to get that knowledge and make it readily available.
As far as dyno results, there are some out there. Most of us dyno our cars after modding more than one thing. Dyno runs are not cheap.
To my knowledge, there has not been a definitive A vs B vs C vs A for our exhaust options anywhere. We are slowly learning and sharing what we learn here. But it is undeniable that you can get gains by just replacing the stock muffler. I am going dual on the 20th of February. If my numbers suffer, I will continue to tinker with it. I will keep you posted.
A year from now, someone will be able to log in and get the skinny on all fo the best mods. But until then, we will have to do the best we can to get that knowledge and make it readily available.
1/30/06, 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Fazm@January 15, 2006, 8:23 PM
Zodiac ran some pretty quick ets in the 1/8th with his dual exhaust work, so i dont think it hurts the performance at all, im sure it helps if anything, especially in the higher rpms.
Zodiac ran some pretty quick ets in the 1/8th with his dual exhaust work, so i dont think it hurts the performance at all, im sure it helps if anything, especially in the higher rpms.
1/30/06, 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Ricklmesa@***.net@January 30, 2006, 4:14 PM
I have dual's I have not noticed any negativitie in my exhaust. I don't think it hurts it, there might not be much of a gain over a single but it aint worse then staying with the single.
I have dual's I have not noticed any negativitie in my exhaust. I don't think it hurts it, there might not be much of a gain over a single but it aint worse then staying with the single.
1/31/06, 01:30 AM
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I think what Frank is suggesting is that we get a back to back dynos on a "fully tuned" set of headers before we start talking mufflers or anything else (and I agree with him). Unfortunately, I too have seen only the JBA "shorties" offered for sale, and I am not certain they are fully tuned. With truly tuned headers you would not need to run duals or an x-pipe for excellent results.
1/31/06, 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by Excepcion13@January 30, 2006, 1:39 PM
How do the dual JBA's sound with the X-pipe? I have a single JBA and LOVE it! I am getting free GT Take-off mufflers for now, but am on the fence about what to do for duals.
How do the dual JBA's sound with the X-pipe? I have a single JBA and LOVE it! I am getting free GT Take-off mufflers for now, but am on the fence about what to do for duals.
1/31/06, 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by T-stang@January 31, 2006, 4:33 AM
I think what Frank is suggesting is that we get a back to back dynos on a "fully tuned" set of headers before we start talking mufflers or anything else (and I agree with him). Unfortunately, I too have seen only the JBA "shorties" offered for sale, and I am not certain they are fully tuned. With truly tuned headers you would not need to run duals or an x-pipe for excellent results.
I think what Frank is suggesting is that we get a back to back dynos on a "fully tuned" set of headers before we start talking mufflers or anything else (and I agree with him). Unfortunately, I too have seen only the JBA "shorties" offered for sale, and I am not certain they are fully tuned. With truly tuned headers you would not need to run duals or an x-pipe for excellent results.
As far as exhaust goes, people are benefitting from exhaust mods NOW, without changing headers, tuned or untuned. I am sure that tuned headers will enhance any exhaust modifications that you might happen to put on NOW.
Back to back dynos on tuned headers is a great idea. Why don't YOU do it?
JBA: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05v6jbahdr.htm
MAC: http://www.lmperformance.com/5658/73.html
You might get a better deal on e bay, but those are the best prices I have found on the net. Let us know how it goes?
