three51stang

Just wondering how the 4.0 compares to the 3.8 in size & weight. From the few pictures i've seen it looks like theres plenty of spare room in the engine bay of the 05 v6. Atleast alot more so than the 4.6. I know the 3.8 was a 90 degree block making it wider as opposed to the 60 degree 4.0, however the 4.0 has OHC heads which are larger. If i'm correct the 4.0 also does not have aluminum heads, which to me is a relief do to all of the 3.8 head gasket problems ford has had in the past. It would be interesting to see a weight comparison. The reason i ask this question is because i plan on purchasing an 05 in a couple of years and have always hated the massive size of the 4.6 compared to the old 5.0. As a person who does all there own modifications and maintenance, i'd much perfer something thats not such a nightmare under the hood.

charles

the 4.0 is bigger and makes more power

TennesseeMustangManiac

I beleive the 4.0 is the engine on the V6 explorer, and that engine pulls the big heavy SUV! Imagine it for a mustang!

05Mustangfan

it was also the ranger's V6

three51stang

Are you sure its bigger or are you just guessing based apon the displacement. Yes we know it makes more power, but that wasn't the question

kevinb120

Physical size is a little smaller then the old pushrod 3.8

onetorquedhorse

I have the 4.0 in my explorer. For an suv, that thing moves pretty well with only a 6.

kevinb120

They upped the hp a little bit in it too, the V6 should boogie pretty well.

ManEHawke

does that mean its also lighter

GTJOHN

For all you V6 fans, I don't think you will be disappointed with a 4.0.
The V6 in my Explorer is pretty good, and it should be able to move that little Mustang with ease.

justgreat

the 4.0 is a 60 degree v6 versus the 3.8 which is 90 degrees between the banks, due to being built off of the small block v8. the 4.0 is a purpose built v6 dating back to the 70's....it's known as the cologne v6 since it originated from ford of europe. unfortunately, to save expense and costs the 4.0 is cast in iron rather than aluminum. the heads are aluminum so there is some weight savings there. the biggest advantage, aside from the fuel savings, will be in the handling department...especially in inclement weather...much better than the v8 in the twisties. hopefully, the engineers snugged the v6 right up against the firewall to get the best balance fore and aft for weight distribution. have to wait and see on that one. jackg 90seville 95k

SVTJayC

huh? If you mean because it's harder to spin out the rear with less power, than...ok maybe. But that isn't handling, it's just the result of less torque.

I owned a V6 T-Bird, and I understand the reasons people buy the V6, but performance shouldn't be one of them. The V6 won't outperform the V8 in anything, otherwise the V6 would be in the GT model. And if i recall correctly, the fuel savings are less than significant.

And the 3.8 was also just a 5.0 V8 minus 2 cylinders. The bore and stroke of the cylinders is identical.

three51stang

wrong wrong wrong 5.0 V8 - 4.0" bore x 3.0" stroke
3.8 V6 - 3.8" bore x 3.4" stroke

The 3.8 v6 is an aluminum headed engine, it shares no block dimensions with the 5.0. It has a taller deck height and is widder than the 5.0.

I'm not sure how much less weight is over the front wheels in the v6 model, however if it is significant, the v6 has the potential of being a better handling vehicle than the GT. However, my major grip with the 4.6 is its rediculus mass for such a small displacement. The old 5.0 was much smaller and easier to modify.

jsaylor

Jayc.....when just great referred to a V-6 handling advantage what he was referring to is a potential weight advantage due to a V-6 engines typically smaller size and lighter weight. And yes, it's basic physics, a car with a lighter engine up front would typically outhandle a similar car with more motor up front. Hence a large part of the reason why the handling oriented Mustang SVO has a 2.3L four up front. He also alludes to the fact that a V-6 can be placed farther back in the chassis improving weight distribution which also improves handling. Of course, tire/wheel size and chassis specs have to be considered as well, but the above cannot be ignored either.

However, from everything I have seen it is debatable as to wether the 4.0L weighs significantly less than the 4.6L 3 valve going into the new pony. Given the V-6's cast iron block versus the V-8's aluminum block it would appear that overall weight will likely be very similar all other things being equal, as the rumour mill has already stated.

And, the mod motor's exterior dimensions are quite large given overall displacement. However, I am not certain that I would agree with the assumption that the old EFI windsor is "easier" to modify. It's aftermarket was certainly more developed, but that is quickly changing and has more to do with convenience than ease. Also, even given it's vast aftermarket the old 5.0L was not easier to mod to similar levels of power. Similar parts for a windsor may be cheaper to obtain, but they generally wont result in as powerful an engine as the same basic mods on a modular V-8.

The windsor is a nice motor, but was quite limited in many respects...especially in stock form. WHile the mod motor needs some changes it was a definate step forward.

V10

I did a search for engine weights and found the following:

Ford 3.8 V6-90 351 lb (w/start, alt, less clutch)
Ford 3.8 V6-90 311 lb ("fully dressed")

Ford Germany 2.0-2.8 V6 305 lb


I don't know what the 40 lb difference is in the 2 listings for the 3.8 as "fully dressed" should include the starter & alternator.

The 4.0 V6 is the latest version of the 2.8L Ford Germany engine.

As a point of reference, the 4.6L - 3V 05 GT engine reportedly weighs about 460 lb.

justgreat

the 4.0 will have better weight distribution than the 4.6 IF the engineers situated the engine close up against the firewall. in the twisties, power isn't as important as the balance of the car. also, the 4.0 should weight less than the 4.6 and that also helps the balance. jackg 90seville 95k

justgreat

it's not really just the weight of the motor...though the cast iron block on the 4.0 definitely adds to it's mass and that's not good in a rwd application. of more significance is the placement of the motor. if you sight along the wheel well of the 05 compared to the 04 you will see a major increase in the space between the front axle plane and the firewall. in order to have a neutral handling car, the majority of the engine must reside behind the front axle...if not, all kinds of nasty things can happen in the handling department, not to mention nasty weather like snow and rain. it's hard to tell from the pictures i've seen of the 05 if the 4.6 is nestled behind the front axle...to my eyes, there's still alot of the motor over the front axle and that ain't good. jackg 90seville 95k

MustangDan

This topic has a lot of interesting ideas but I wonder if these ideas have proved themselves to be true or not. Does the base out-handle the GT? How much did Ford's leaving the rear anti-sway bar hurt the base Mustang?

Tone

I would suspect that with no rear sway bar, taller and narrower tires and other tuning differences between the V6 and GT that it is not likely the V6 outhandles the GT in stock form.

However, as mentioned earlier in this thread if the V6 has a little less weight up front (and overall), it does potentially have a handling advantage.

Given the low base price of a V6, it might be an interesting experiment for V6 owners to add the important suspension upgrades (lower profile, more performance-oriented tires, the rear sway bar and perhaps tighter shocks if needed) and see what it does for the car's on-the-road behaviour. Given the nearly $9000 (Canadian dollars) difference between the V6 and the GT, you might be able to create a nice driving sporty car without having to go the full boat to the GT.

That assumed you can do without the GT's 300 hp. If you want big power, the GT is probably a more economical place to start. For some of us, though, the balance between decent power and handling is what makes a fun-to-drive car. For us, the V6 has some potential.

That said, I must say that reviews of the V6's engine are all over the map. Motor Trend keeps mentioning what a disappointment it is -- slow to rev, noisy, etc. But others have lauded the V6 car as a considerable improvement, with a great sound and decent performance. I'll be curious to see a full V6 test later in the year.

EleanorsMine

I can vouch.....