Whipple/KB Questions
3/20/08, 11:12 PM
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Whipple/KB Questions
How many of you guys are still using the Ford tune and how many are using a custom dyno tune? Those that went the dyno route, which tuner did you use, and did you have to purchase it?
My Paxton 1200 ain't doing it for me anymore and I'm looking to go twin screw. The shop I go to is trying to sell me on Kenne Bell since they come with a SCT and the fact they are right around the corner from Kenne Bell. Are there really any differences between the two H.O. systems?
My Paxton 1200 ain't doing it for me anymore and I'm looking to go twin screw. The shop I go to is trying to sell me on Kenne Bell since they come with a SCT and the fact they are right around the corner from Kenne Bell. Are there really any differences between the two H.O. systems?
3/21/08, 06:10 AM
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Both are great systems. No major differences(from what I know). I think the Whipple seems to be the more reliable unit. I keep hearing about a few minor issues here and there with the KB(but I can't remember what problems people were running into).
Are you asking if you need to buy the handheld that the professional tuner uses to install the dyno tune? Confused about that question.
Are you asking if you need to buy the handheld that the professional tuner uses to install the dyno tune? Confused about that question.
3/21/08, 06:36 AM
#3
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I'd do the Whipple over the KB, but also I wouldn't rule out the Saleen. I just went from a Vortech to a Saleen and the Saleen makes a tad more power up to 6000rpm but it also makes 100+ more lb ft of torque at 3000rpm.
3/21/08, 06:42 AM
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How many of you guys are still using the Ford tune and how many are using a custom dyno tune? Those that went the dyno route, which tuner did you use, and did you have to purchase it? The shop I go to is trying to sell me on Kenne Bell since they come with a SCT and the fact they are right around the corner from Kenne Bell. Are there really any differences between the two H.O. systems?
I went with the KB because it's:
Bigger 2.6 > 2.3
Spins slower for same amount of boost, more efficient
Lower IAT Temps (don't get the polished, they retain more heat)
True Cold Air System (sucks it from outside the engine compartment)
Bigger 12" filter (9" for Whipple)
IAT sensor upstream of inlet (Whipple can be moved)
Billet case
Edit: around the same price
I really like the Whipple too, and the fuel pump that comes with it, and it looks great, like it was suppossed to come on the car from the factory. Whipple also comes with spark plugs, but I can buy some HTO's for the KB. The Whipple also has a bigger intercooler, but since it's sucking in more hot engine compartment air, it probably needs it.
As far as RWHP results, seems the Whipple puts out a little more, but then again it comes as an 10psi kit where the KB is 8psi. Of course, swapping out a pulley and getting a tune will fix that on a KB. But mine put down 476 RWHP uncorrected on a cold/dry night, so that's plenty for me on 8 psi and a stock block. Either kit can get you in the 450-500 rwhp range no problem. KB is a little bigger, so more potential once/if you go built.
Either one of these kits you can't go wrong, both are awesome. Whipple has better looking pulleys though, ha! Kenne Bell you can get polished, but a lot more money and doesn't vent heat as well.
Hope this helps, I was asking the same question a year and a half ago.
Last edited by Hatchman; 3/21/08 at 06:08 PM.
3/21/08, 10:18 AM
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Both are great systems. No major differences(from what I know). I think the Whipple seems to be the more reliable unit. I keep hearing about a few minor issues here and there with the KB(but I can't remember what problems people were running into).
Are you asking if you need to buy the handheld that the professional tuner uses to install the dyno tune? Confused about that question.
Are you asking if you need to buy the handheld that the professional tuner uses to install the dyno tune? Confused about that question.
3/21/08, 10:21 AM
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I think a saleen blower belongs on a saleen IMO, plus I don't like the way they look. Did you have to lower your block?
3/21/08, 10:23 AM
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Custom dyno tune from RWTD here. James is a super tuner, great customer service. My car has had a couple of 'canned' tunes, and it either pinged or puffed black smoke. It always picked up more hp after a custom tune, andsafer fuel / timing to boot. So having more hp with a safer fuel and timing curve, it's worth the investment to me to go custom. Plus I just love running my car on the dyno.
I went with the KB because it's:
Bigger 2.6 > 2.3
Spins slower for same amount of boost, more efficient
Lower IAT Temps (don't get the polished, they retain more heat)
True Cold Air System (sucks it from outside the engine compartment)
Bigger 12" filter (9" for Whipple)
IAT sensor upstream of inlet (Whipple can be moved)
Billet case
Cost less than the Whipple, around $600
I really like the Whipple too, and the fuel pump that comes with it, and it looks great, like it was suppossed to come on the car from the factory. Whipple also comes with spark plugs, but I can buy some HTO's for the KB. The Whipple also has a bigger intercooler, but since it's sucking in more hot engine compartment air, it probably needs it.
As far as RWHP results, seems the Whipple puts out a little more, but then again it comes as an 10psi kit where the KB is 8psi. Of course, swapping out a pulley and getting a tune will fix that on a KB. But mine put down 476 RWHP uncorrected on a cold/dry night, so that's plenty for me on 8 psi and a stock block. Either kit can get you in the 450-500 rwhp range no problem. KB is a little bigger, so more potential once/if you go built.
Either one of these kits you can't go wrong, both are awesome. Whipple has better looking pulleys though, ha! Kenne Bell you can get polished, but a lot more money and doesn't vent heat as well.
Hope this helps, I was asking the same question a year and a half ago.
I went with the KB because it's:
Bigger 2.6 > 2.3
Spins slower for same amount of boost, more efficient
Lower IAT Temps (don't get the polished, they retain more heat)
True Cold Air System (sucks it from outside the engine compartment)
Bigger 12" filter (9" for Whipple)
IAT sensor upstream of inlet (Whipple can be moved)
Billet case
Cost less than the Whipple, around $600
I really like the Whipple too, and the fuel pump that comes with it, and it looks great, like it was suppossed to come on the car from the factory. Whipple also comes with spark plugs, but I can buy some HTO's for the KB. The Whipple also has a bigger intercooler, but since it's sucking in more hot engine compartment air, it probably needs it.
As far as RWHP results, seems the Whipple puts out a little more, but then again it comes as an 10psi kit where the KB is 8psi. Of course, swapping out a pulley and getting a tune will fix that on a KB. But mine put down 476 RWHP uncorrected on a cold/dry night, so that's plenty for me on 8 psi and a stock block. Either kit can get you in the 450-500 rwhp range no problem. KB is a little bigger, so more potential once/if you go built.
Either one of these kits you can't go wrong, both are awesome. Whipple has better looking pulleys though, ha! Kenne Bell you can get polished, but a lot more money and doesn't vent heat as well.
Hope this helps, I was asking the same question a year and a half ago.
3/21/08, 10:33 AM
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I am very very pleased with the whipple and the whipple tune. I trust the tune cause of its conservative nature.
I am actually in the process of talking to jeff @ Whipple. I got one of the whipple kits that was produced when the kit first released. I have an "old" tune from whipple, which is still great and on the money. I was told by jeff that recently whiiple has dug deeper into their tunes and they've updated their tunes to increase seat of the pants feeling, even more throttle response and more torque! approx 20-30lbs more torque! he also said that with this tune I can easily upgrade to the 12psi pulley and be as conservative as having the 10psi pulley. since I'm getting 20" wheels, he's doing the update for $50, that will include the tire size change adn the new tune and then $115 for the 12psi pulley.
I'm excited about this and cant wait to run 12psi on the whipple. jeff said that the 12psi is safe for the tune they are going to provide. they've been running this setup on a mustang now for over a year and a half with 0 problems and have beaten the crap out of it.
vote, Whipple!
I am actually in the process of talking to jeff @ Whipple. I got one of the whipple kits that was produced when the kit first released. I have an "old" tune from whipple, which is still great and on the money. I was told by jeff that recently whiiple has dug deeper into their tunes and they've updated their tunes to increase seat of the pants feeling, even more throttle response and more torque! approx 20-30lbs more torque! he also said that with this tune I can easily upgrade to the 12psi pulley and be as conservative as having the 10psi pulley. since I'm getting 20" wheels, he's doing the update for $50, that will include the tire size change adn the new tune and then $115 for the 12psi pulley.
I'm excited about this and cant wait to run 12psi on the whipple. jeff said that the 12psi is safe for the tune they are going to provide. they've been running this setup on a mustang now for over a year and a half with 0 problems and have beaten the crap out of it.
vote, Whipple!
3/21/08, 11:14 AM
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I think Hatchman pretty much said everything you need to get an educated decision from, now it's a matter of cosmetics. I personally like the look of the polished Whipple, but it's kind of like a factory hood scoop. Can you purchase something that isn't as functional strictly on cosmetics?
3/21/08, 11:28 AM
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3/21/08, 11:37 AM
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To each their own on the looks...... I wasn't crazy about how it looked, but I'm really starting to like it now, plus I plan on powder coating the top intake section so that it matches my cam covers. You will not have to lower the engine if you have factory motor mounts and use a Saleen intake pipe. Anyway I know you're debating between the KB or Whipple, I just thought I'd throw the Saleen out there because there are many reasons why you could chose it over the other 2 but I won't go into further detail. Really between all 3 (KB, Whipple, Saleen) you'd be happy with any of them. People are always going to attempt to justify why they bought theirs and why they think it's the best.
3/21/08, 12:33 PM
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I disagree...if they were to use their own you would never be able to get your stock tune back if it were ever needed. They would also not be able to use the tuner again as it would have a stock program locked into it.
Most likely he will need to buy some sort of hand held tuner so it can stay with the car incase anything ever needs to be changed.
3/21/08, 12:37 PM
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Custom dyno tune from RWTD here. James is a super tuner, great customer service. My car has had a couple of 'canned' tunes, and it either pinged or puffed black smoke. It always picked up more hp after a custom tune, andsafer fuel / timing to boot. So having more hp with a safer fuel and timing curve, it's worth the investment to me to go custom. Plus I just love running my car on the dyno.
I went with the KB because it's:
Bigger 2.6 > 2.3
Spins slower for same amount of boost, more efficient
Lower IAT Temps (don't get the polished, they retain more heat)
True Cold Air System (sucks it from outside the engine compartment)
Bigger 12" filter (9" for Whipple)
IAT sensor upstream of inlet (Whipple can be moved)
Billet case
Cost less than the Whipple, around $600
I really like the Whipple too, and the fuel pump that comes with it, and it looks great, like it was suppossed to come on the car from the factory. Whipple also comes with spark plugs, but I can buy some HTO's for the KB. The Whipple also has a bigger intercooler, but since it's sucking in more hot engine compartment air, it probably needs it.
As far as RWHP results, seems the Whipple puts out a little more, but then again it comes as an 10psi kit where the KB is 8psi. Of course, swapping out a pulley and getting a tune will fix that on a KB. But mine put down 476 RWHP uncorrected on a cold/dry night, so that's plenty for me on 8 psi and a stock block. Either kit can get you in the 450-500 rwhp range no problem. KB is a little bigger, so more potential once/if you go built.
Either one of these kits you can't go wrong, both are awesome. Whipple has better looking pulleys though, ha! Kenne Bell you can get polished, but a lot more money and doesn't vent heat as well.
Hope this helps, I was asking the same question a year and a half ago.
I went with the KB because it's:
Bigger 2.6 > 2.3
Spins slower for same amount of boost, more efficient
Lower IAT Temps (don't get the polished, they retain more heat)
True Cold Air System (sucks it from outside the engine compartment)
Bigger 12" filter (9" for Whipple)
IAT sensor upstream of inlet (Whipple can be moved)
Billet case
Cost less than the Whipple, around $600
I really like the Whipple too, and the fuel pump that comes with it, and it looks great, like it was suppossed to come on the car from the factory. Whipple also comes with spark plugs, but I can buy some HTO's for the KB. The Whipple also has a bigger intercooler, but since it's sucking in more hot engine compartment air, it probably needs it.
As far as RWHP results, seems the Whipple puts out a little more, but then again it comes as an 10psi kit where the KB is 8psi. Of course, swapping out a pulley and getting a tune will fix that on a KB. But mine put down 476 RWHP uncorrected on a cold/dry night, so that's plenty for me on 8 psi and a stock block. Either kit can get you in the 450-500 rwhp range no problem. KB is a little bigger, so more potential once/if you go built.
Either one of these kits you can't go wrong, both are awesome. Whipple has better looking pulleys though, ha! Kenne Bell you can get polished, but a lot more money and doesn't vent heat as well.
Hope this helps, I was asking the same question a year and a half ago.
Also to clarify your KB made 475rwhp on 8psi where as the whipple makes just over that but with 2 more PSI?? I didn't know the KB was so superior.
3/21/08, 03:09 PM
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I am actually in the process of talking to jeff @ Whipple. I got one of the whipple kits that was produced when the kit first released. I have an "old" tune from whipple, which is still great and on the money. I was told by jeff that recently whiiple has dug deeper into their tunes and they've updated their tunes to increase seat of the pants feeling, even more throttle response and more torque! approx 20-30lbs more torque! he also said that with this tune I can easily upgrade to the 12psi pulley and be as conservative as having the 10psi pulley. [/quote]
Mav
Sounds GREAT, if you remember I got mine the same time as you. Whats the scoop on the tune? Is it available to everyone? My SC was through Ford Racing but its identical to the Whipple. I'd definitely be interested in the upgrade
Mav
Sounds GREAT, if you remember I got mine the same time as you. Whats the scoop on the tune? Is it available to everyone? My SC was through Ford Racing but its identical to the Whipple. I'd definitely be interested in the upgrade
3/21/08, 03:50 PM
#16
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They are both great systems. The only reason why I would take a whipple over the KB is because of the whine. The KB is pretty quiet. I like to hear my blower!
3/21/08, 04:23 PM
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I am actually in the process of talking to jeff @ Whipple. I got one of the whipple kits that was produced when the kit first released. I have an "old" tune from whipple, which is still great and on the money. I was told by jeff that recently whiiple has dug deeper into their tunes and they've updated their tunes to increase seat of the pants feeling, even more throttle response and more torque! approx 20-30lbs more torque! he also said that with this tune I can easily upgrade to the 12psi pulley and be as conservative as having the 10psi pulley.
Mav
Sounds GREAT, if you remember I got mine the same time as you. Whats the scoop on the tune? Is it available to everyone? My SC was through Ford Racing but its identical to the Whipple. I'd definitely be interested in the upgrade[/quote]
yes its available to everyone. talk to Jeff @ Whipple and tell him you have one of the first whipple tunes and you want to upgrade to the newer tune and purchase the 12psi pulley. only thing he will do is ask you to send the ford racing voucher tool to whipple for update and/or rip your ECU out and overnight it. $50 for the tune update. and $115 for the pulley
3/21/08, 05:40 PM
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Yes, KB's have a tendency to snap tensioners. Whipples have had trouble with some of the tunes and some guys have gotten stranded when trying to flash the tune, or if the dealer flashes it back to stock. Either way, I don't let the dealer go near my OBD II port, no warrany left there anyway.
With KB, you can buy a tuner kit and buy your 39lb injectors and 90mm Lightning MAF seperately if you want. I already had an Xcal II, so I just got the tuner kit, got a great deal on the injectors and MAF, and saved enough to get a polished kit. I like the Xcal II a lot better than the Xcal one that comes with the full kit, pretty much just like the Ford Flash tool, flash once, and your done. Can't really data log or carry multiple tunes in it.
Why don't you stop by KB and ask around. Im sure James Bell can answer most of your questions and concerns. I'm sure they have a few S197s in the parking lot with KB's on them. I know if I ever pass through town I'm stopping in.
3/21/08, 06:06 PM
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Where in the world can you get a KB for 600 less than a Whipple...FYI: I talked to James at RWTD and he quoted me 5499 for the whipple h.o. kit in black
Also to clarify your KB made 475rwhp on 8psi where as the whipple makes just over that but with 2 more PSI?? I didn't know the KB was so superior.
Also to clarify your KB made 475rwhp on 8psi where as the whipple makes just over that but with 2 more PSI?? I didn't know the KB was so superior.
Also, like I said, I got 476 UNCORRECTED (I'll try all caps this time), it was a cold/dry night, and only 439 SAE (check sig), which is about right for 8psi and a safe tune. Either way, dyno is just a tuning tool, doesn't measure how fast a car is.
And yes, I think the KB is better, or I wouldn't have bought it. Bigger is not always better, but with motors and superchargers, it sometimes doesn't hurt.